[RahulNagaraj]

Just days after announcing the ban on ICE-powered vehicles, California state authorities are now asking EV owners not to charge their cars during peak hours.

According to media reports, the California Independent System Operator told EV owners to "avoid charging electric cars" between 4 pm to 9 pm. The request to not charge vehicles during these times is part of the state's effort to keep the power grid up and running. With the state currently facing a heat wave, the power grid is said to be stretched to its limit with residents cranking up the air conditioners.



Reports suggest further safeguards could also be introduced in the near future, to keep the power grid running. Apart from not charging electric vehicles, state authorities have also asked residents to limit power usage as much as possible. Residents have been requested to avoid using heavy appliances, turn off unnecessary lights and keep thermostats at 78 degrees Fahrenheit or higher, during the peak hours mentioned above.

David Victor, a professor at UC San Diego's School of Global Policy & Strategy mentioned that residents will have to be convinced to shift their vehicle charging times from evening to the middle of the day. This means charging EVs at the workplace or parking their electric cars near an EV charger.

Soure: CBS News

Link to Team-BHP news

[GTO]

For all the talk of EVs going mainstream in India, we have to understand the fundamental challenges. California is part of a 1st-world country facing infrastructural issues, imagine the plight of India when lakhs of EVs plug in to charge. Our electricity grid chokes on the current load, with even cities like Bangalore & Pune suffering blackouts.

It's going to be a long, slow road for EVs in India. They will go mainstream one day, but it's a long time away for electric cars to become the default choice as a petrol car is today.

I wish the OEMs pushed plug-in hybrids & full hybrids in India. They are today's solution to improving FE by 50%.

[cityslicker86]

Originally Posted by GTO

I wish the OEMs pushed plug-in hybrids & full hybrids in India. They are today's solution to improving FE by 50%.

Totally agree. I've long been in favour of Hybrids over EVs for India. Not only do they not load the grid, there's no range anxiety and the fuel efficiency is also excellent.

On the other hand, while EVs are being peddled as green, over 72% of our electricity comes from burning coal. How is that environment friendly? Unless government ensures that all EVs will be charged with electricity from renewable sources. Also, the way lithium is mined is another story altogether.

[akhilesh]

Originally Posted by GTO

It's going to be a long, slow road for EVs in India. They will go mainstream one day, but it's a long time away for electric cars to become the default choice as a petrol car is today.

I dont think India has a choice though. If the rest of world transitions faster including China, we will have to, too.

[Contrapunto]

This is one area where, as a nation, we would rather be "right", than claim the bragging rights to be the "first". Also, as I heard in a conference- a "not-unfriendly oil oligopoly" may be a safer strategic bet than an "adversarial monopoly" in battery tech.

The govt's medium term priority should be to improve the grid. the distribution companies are going broke from defaults (again!!). I am strongly in favour of the central govt deducting the cost of "free electricity" promises from their devolution of taxes and paying the pending dues of distribution companies. That may be the only structural way to force state govts to promise only what they can pay.

[ajayc123]

PHEVs are the sweet spot. They don't put as much load on the grid when compared to EVs. Means that weekday office rides could be pretty much exhaust free. Only longer drives would require use of gasoline, that too more efficient use of fuel due to the hybrid technologies. Obviously, the driving pleasure would take a back seat.

[gnome]

I keep stressing on this part regularly - India's grid system is pathetic in most states. It is a big hindrance for electric to go mainstream.
And then there is power pricing, which is completely at mercy of regional governments. Considering egregious taxes on fuel, there is no guarantee similar taxes won't be applied to electric charging, once it goes mainstream. All the mileage cost comparisons we do currently do not account for policy changes related to power pricing.

[Annibaddh]

Hybrids are such an obvious opportunity - and frankly an elegant solution. ~80% of travel will happen in a domestic, do not need to charge out side home, city commute environment - significantly easing the burden on fossil fuel requirement. And for the out-of-city-travel petrol will kick in, with sufficient efficiencies. I'm amazed at why OEMs are not even considering the option - or seriously enough. Even the government's apathetic largely to hybrids. What's more it is a far more realistic way to reduce strategic reliance on imported crude, optimize costs and basically just focus on building electrical power excess capability.


Ideally - and ambitiously speaking - perhaps a working combination for us would be this?

1. A personal transport strategy built around strong hybrids - with sufficient city range (say 50 kms?)

2. A goods transport strategy built around EV Semis. It's so apt - most trucks in India do not travel more than 300-500 kms / day. They don't need as much range, but significant torque for haulage. And they need efficiency. They typically have frequent and long stoppages - sufficient to recharge the giants (assuming incremental - not exponential - improvement in battery tech over the next few years). And our organized road network is already expanding at a rapid pace.

[CarNerd]

This all electric nonsense is difficult to implement in India. As I am typing, there is no power in our area! When we don't get 24x7 uninterrupted power supply, how will we charge our cars? Any idea how much more power has to be generated if everyone starts using all electric cars & two wheelers? If we make PHEV cars as normal, that itself would be a great achievement. Not everyone can afford to generate power by Solar Panels. And what is the govt doing about Generator Sales and Usage across the country? Are they not polluting?
No plans, no proper discussion, just looking at the west and passing orders won't work.

[Chrome6Boy]

I live in Chennai and we don't have many power cuts. Besides for most of us an overnight charge once in 4-5 days should suffice for our commutes.

My workplace is in Ranipet (an industrial town in Tamilnadu) and we don't have a lot of power cuts there either, though it's not as good as Chennai. Perhaps other parts of the country are in worse shape.

In the last 8 years power supply has only improved, I assume it is the same in most other parts of the country.

[torquecurve]

The issue here is most of the US cars use 'fast chargers' which with their 120V architecture put a heavier load on the system than our 240V supply.
Even the Tesla 'Home Chargers' are 3.8Kw minimum with typically the 7.7 kW charger also being highly sold. To achieve a 5kW on a 120V system is a 30 AMP system which will need a 'multiple' phase input to achieve whereas in India it will be a 15 AMP system, which even a single phase can supply and is like your fridge or a water heater being plugged into the grid.

In most cases the higher amperage requires special permits from the city to install as well, leading to many using public charging = higher power requirements! A Tesla charges 3 mph (miles per hour) on a slow 5-15 connection. The Tata Tigor for example charges 10-12% per hour - 20-25 kms/hr - 12mph or so!

Even their 'Superchargers' will add an additional current draw on the overall system. India, that way is better-placed esp. for home charging (15AMP, overnight 3.3kW or three phase 7.2 kW).

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by GTO

For all the talk of EVs going mainstream in India, we have to understand the fundamental challenges. California is part of a 1st-world country facing infrastructural issues, imagine the plight of India when lakhs of EVs plug in to charge. Our electricity grid chokes on the current load, with even cities like Bangalore & Pune suffering blackouts.

I believe we are postulating an extremely wrong comparison here. We are comparing a region which is high on car ownership percentage, high (& growing very fast) on EV % share of cars vs a market that has extremely low car ownership percentages and very negligible EV % share of the cars market.

Given the extremely slow growth rate of EVs, even if we include 2-wheeler numbers in above comparison, I wouldn't worry about the share of EVs as part of total vehicle count. And the subsequent impact of 4-wheelers on the global infrastructure extremely low.

Plus I'd reference this thread of yours - where 15A plugs are good enough for charging EVs. So I'd rather worry more about the percentage of ACs and subsequent load on the infrastructure during summers than EVs going forward for India

[DicKy]

Originally Posted by Contrapunto

a "not-unfriendly oil oligopoly" may be a safer strategic bet than an "adversarial monopoly" in battery tech.

Truth. Like they say, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."
Don't get me wrong. I will buy a BEV if it is launched at <8 lakhs (even a quadricycle at <5 lakhs would do), and looking forward to the Mahindra Atom if it is launched. I can safely travel anywhere the southern half of Kerala without fear of running out of battery juice.

But this mindless push to all BEVs by 20xx. I would wager it is some sort of conspiracy just like how BEV enthusiasts cry out 'oil lobby' when someone speaks against BEVs. Handing it to the Middle Kingdom in a lithium plate.

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

I believe we are postulating an extremely wrong comparison here. We are comparing a region which is high on car ownership percentage, high (& growing very fast) on EV % share of cars vs a market that has extremely low car ownership percentages and very negligible EV % share of the cars market.

Postulate or extrapolate, it is true that California is the car centric lifestyle mecca of the world, while we are far from it. One look at our infra should be an indication of where we are headed. Even with this extremely low car ownership percentages, our road infra is bursting at its seams. So why shouldn't we doubt a possible future where BEVs end up overloading the grid?

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by DicKy

Postulate or extrapolate, it is true that California is the car centric lifestyle mecca of the world, while we are far from it. One look at our infra should be an indication of where we are headed. Even with this extremely low car ownership percentages, our road infra is bursting at its seams. So why shouldn't we doubt a possible future where BEVs end up overloading the grid?

Sure we can doubt anything - but it helps to be logical in our hypothetical scenarios. A mere 10% increase in car ownership is definitely going to have a strong impact/load on our infrastructure, especially within cities. That's something to worry about for sure.

EV car sales for 2021 was 15k, a mere 0.5% of new car sales (~30L). To put this in understandable reference, Maruti sells more WagonRs in a month as compared to total annual BEV sales in India. (reference 1, 2).

The EV market share of California was 12.8% last year, gradually rising year on year (reference 1). Even if we assume massive adoption over the next 5-10 years, I don't think we'll be even close to the level of California of 2021.

Electricity production and transmission are problem areas that will remain a problem irrespective of EV/BEV loads. There are going to be many other factors that will be more significant for load on our electricity infrastructure than EVs (maybe even my joke of ACs might have some relevance there).

Edit: But I do agree with @GTO's point of manufacturers bringing in PHEV (plug in hybrids/EVs) in addition to EVs. It would be good to have more options on the table for sure.

[karanddd]

The fossil fuel analogue to this is huge lines outside petrol pumps, which may very well happen (like we saw in Sri Lanka). In a true scarcity / emergency situation, I'd rather have an EV because it's far more possible for an individual to generate electricity (with solar panels, say) than it is to dig up and refine petrol.