[Chhanda Das]

A joint study between Saudi Aramco and IIT Kanpur published in Nature magazine claims that electric vehicles in India are more polluting than petrol/diesel ones.

https://auto.timesofindia.com/news/o...w/92971530.cms

[DarthVeda]

Originally Posted by Chhanda Das

A joint study between

Saudi Aramco

and IIT Kanpur published in Nature magazine claims that electric vehicles in India are more polluting than petrol/diesel ones.

https://auto.timesofindia.com/news/o...w/92971530.cms

I believe that should give you a clue as to where the article is headed.

Coal powered EV might not be that great, but it is ALWAYS better crude powered vehicles. The efficiency of EV motor is upwards of 85%, where as fuel vehicles is less than 40%.
And if we are considering carbon emissions, let's not forget that Crude extraction and Crude refining isn't exactly CARBON FREE, and transportation of the said fuel to it's destination is over trucks, which adds more carbon emission. Whilst the transmission of electricity to the said destination is carbon free

[AZT]

Saudi Aramco sponsored this study. That’s like a cigarette manufacturer saying Nicotine is good for your health because of some random study conducted by an institute. Which IIRC already has been done by the cigarette lobby in the US a long time back.

I would ignore any study like this.

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by Chhanda Das

A joint study between Saudi Aramco and IIT Kanpur published in Nature magazine claims that electric vehicles in India are more polluting than petrol/diesel ones.

Suggestion - it might help to do a bit of googling and share the original report when starting new threads than just a news article; especially on topics that are argumentative. Sharing the original study link on Nature magazine; also attached below is the full study.

I think a detailed understanding of the study would help rather than go by the conclusions; sharing some of the points that I found relevant

Ultimately, India’s EV30@30 ambition must be complemented by a near-term commitment to phase-out coal from the power sector to improve the GHG reduction prospect of a 4W BEV.

In the absence of a clear trajectory to phase down coal, the electrification of transport should prioritise India’s growing 2-wheel segment that could still offer about a 20% GHG benefit. This has to be complemented by a more rigorous fuel efficiency standard and low-carbon fuels standard to drive the adoption of highly-efficient 4 W engines (e.g., hybridised vehicles) and fuels with a lower climate impact (e.g., sustainable low-carbon fuels) as a transitional solution

Note: GHG = Green house gas emissions | BEV = Battery-electric vehicle

Overall, the Indian subcontinent is still heavily dependent on coal
...
Renewable electricity generation doubled between 2014 and 2019, resulting in combined wind and solar power generation of 101 TWh, which provided only 7% of India’s total 1376 TWh of electricity demand during the same period (2019)

Also attached a snapshot of a comparo of a EV vs petrol/diesel option across the Indian map. Even with 2019 renewable electricity generation numbers (the renewable share would have definitely gone up over the next 2.5 years), the situation is much more favorable to EVs over ICE options across many parts of the country.

[Dry Ice]

Best to read the source material directly, published here.

Couple of quotes from the paper.

*GHG = Green house gases

GHG mitigation potentials of electric 4-wheelers in India depend critically on when and where they are charged: 40% reduction in the north-eastern states and more than 15% increase in the eastern/western regions today, with higher overall GHGs emitted when charged overnight and in the summer.

However, electrification of road transport can reduce criterion air pollutants, specifically NOx15 and PM2.578, which is important for improving ambient air quality, particularly in densely populated cities. On the other hand, without any pollution control measures in place, heavy reliance on coal power plants to generate electricity for a BEV can result in up to 18 times higher emissions of SO2 than a conventional car15. This highlights the importance of understanding the trade-offs in policy decisions and the need for a systemic approach to guide India’s overall sustainable transition in the transport sector

As can be seen from the quotes above, “EVs pollute more than ICE cars” is not a universal truth across our country. It varies by region, season and even time of day. There are significant advantages of using EVs even with the current dirty coal fed grid - lower PM2.5, NOX emissions.

I would end this post by quoting the last answer in the TOI interview, with a few bits in bold.

Q: Last but not the least. How important is India for you from an oil perspective?

A: India is one of our biggest markets. It's around a million barrels a day at least and it is going to be the number 1 in future. We know that so we are very interested in the growth story of India.

[Chhanda Das]

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

Suggestion - it might help to do a bit of googling and share the original report when starting new threads than just a news article; especially on topics that are argumentative.

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

Best to read the source material directly, published here.

Thank you both for sharing the original article here. I tried to do the same but sadly, could not find the actual one even after googling it primarily and very likely due to my ineptitude

[Bluengel180]

We will keep getting these articles as as companies with vested interests will want to spread misinformation to maintain thier income streams. We've had this in every industry.

Yes the carbon footprint of EV's is HEAVILY dependent on the way source of electricity generation. For India the majority is still coal. Does this make EV's more polluting than fossil fuels? No, because it is way more easier to control efficiency at the source and coal plants are very efficient and easier to maintain compared to lakhs of fossil fuels vehicles running on our roads.

Will we always rely on coal? No. Over the lifetime of an EV we will see our country moving to more renewable options. Which is happening in the present too.

I think a fact checking article should be pinned to the electric cars forum so we don't have have this discussion in every thread.

[SKC-auto]

The solution is not hybrids, the solution is renewable energy. As long as we postpone this energy shift, we are going to lose lot of money.

[GTO]

EVs are coming (big thanks to Elon & Tesla!) in a transformational way, and a lot of traditional industries are going to be upended. Oil companies, component manufacturers, petrol pumps, workshops (less mechanical maintenance) etc. Expect a lot of these so-called studies to come out, but you know what, they cannot achieve anything. The consumer decides the fate of future technology and we can more or less agree that at least 50% of customers (whether in India or abroad) are open to buying an EV in the coming years / decade.

The debate of coal-powered electricity and the carbon footprint of EVs vs ICE vehicles will continue till the cows come home. But it's important for us to understand that EVs will significantly reduce the pollution in metros like Delhi (deadly AQI), Mumbai (getting to dangerous levels) etc. Even if the electricity is "bad", it still allows you to move the pollution out of congested urban areas. Do you keep garbage dedicated in one spot of your house, or is it strewn all around your apartment? EVs will help with that kind of planning at the nationwide level.

What's more, there are many clean ways to develop electricity and governments worldwide are showing inclination toward the same. Whereas petrol & diesel cars will always be heavily polluting, no matter even if we get to BS9 emission norms.

[dhanushs]

I think the goal of going EV eventually is to get sustainable electricity.

Otherwise you could just keep a IC engine'd generator in your boot.

[itsmeparvathy9]

The best option would be generating your own power, by using Solar energy, use it to charge your car and run your home too. My friend has a Nexon EV, He got rooftop solar panels installed and now he hardly has to pay anything for electricity nor for charging his car. The Nexon EV has been great for him because his daily running is only 50 km and during weekends a 130 km trip that's all. So, he hardly has to charge from anywhere else other than his home.

Sustainable energy, no electricity bills, no fuel costs.

[xtremeshock]

Originally Posted by itsmeparvathy9

He got rooftop solar panels installed and now he hardly has to pay anything for electricity nor for charging his car.

I did not know you could install solar panels for the Nexon, can you share details with pictures and the cost involved and where he got it done, will definitely help us all.

[itsmeparvathy9]

Originally Posted by xtremeshock

I did not know you could install solar panels for the Nexon, can you share details with pictures and the cost involved and where he got it done, will definitely help us all.

Sorry I think I missed out or wasn't clear enough, he installed solar panels at the rooftop of his house not the Car 😂

[Nikhil Beke]

Can anyone give me a link of the original text of the study? We need to go into nitty- gritties of study methodology, before casting aspersions on the outcome (which indeed could possibly be justified). I'm just curious, because the study claims to have been published in a top notch scientific journal, which boasts of extensive peer-review process, and as such the articles published in Nature are immune to intended/unintended and favourable/unfavourable influences by a certain party that stands to benefit maliciously from the outcomes.
The problem is, I'm unable to see even the abstract on Nature's website! Maybe it's been just accepted for publication, yet to appear on online/print form.
Mods: my bad, apologies. Please delete this comment as I see the link for the original text above.

[Raghu M]

If anyone wants EVs to be really dead, that should be Aramco (first on the list). If they sponsor a study, I can only imagine what kind of results would be published. While I am not a fan of EVs, I cannot trust a study sponsored by someone like Aramco on the demerits of EVs.