[Indian2003]

EV sales in Norway went up to 80% of new cars the first quarter of 2022. The incentives like zero taxes and other advantages like free parking and toll roads and ferries are over.
25% VAT will be added to all EVs starting 1.January 2023.


EV sales have already dropped and many on the waiting lists have cancelled their orders that wont arrive this year. Most of these cars cost from 50,000 euros and up to around 200,000 euros. EVs costing less than 50,000 euros will be eligible for a tax rebate.

This shows that it was not the environment but money that was the main driving force for people to buy EVs. Same with me. I bought an EV only for the benefits.

Total cost for electricty for 2000 km has come to less than 30 euros. That is about 370 euros less than what I used to pay for diesel for the same distance.

[avira_tk]

This could have been predicted by anyone with an ounce of common sense. A country that virtue signals its green credentials endlessly while exporting oil has been called out so many times it's not funny.

Let's see how many people will stick to EVs when they cost more to buy.

[pkulkarni.2106]

Originally Posted by avira_tk

Let's see how many people will stick to EVs when they cost more to buy.

Not to mention that the electricity cheaper than fossil fuels today. When everyone starts to adopt EVs, I think it will surely cost more than what it's today.

[Red_Phantom]

Originally Posted by pkulkarni.2106

Not to mention that the electricity cheaper than fossil fuels today. When everyone starts to adopt EVs, I think it will surely cost more than what it's today.

But the added advantage of EVs is that electricity can be made at people's homes with solar panels, unlike fossil fuels over which the government has complete control on it's distribution.

[SKC-auto]

Originally Posted by Indian2003

EV sales have already dropped and many on the waiting lists have cancelled their orders that wont arrive this year.

The above statement seems mutually exclusive, if sales have dropped waiting lists won't extend to beyond 2022. Its a clear case of more demand than supply, the monthly numbers are dictated by supply constraints not demand.

Definitely, there may be some people postponing the purchase as they cannot take advantage of the subsidy, it's not like people are cancelling and buying ICE, the ICE sales did not see any substantial increase for the May month.

For a common consumer the subsidies matter more than the environment that the reason we have so many cost calculations on any EV thread.

Originally Posted by pkulkarni.2106

Not to mention that the electricity cheaper than fossil fuels today. When everyone starts to adopt EVs, I think it will surely cost more than what it's today.

May cost more than today, but I believe it still will be 2-5 times cheaper to run than ICE cars. We are shifting to solar and Wind(2-3₹/kwh) which is very cheap than the current coal(3-4₹/kwh) based grid.

India is importing $1B of oil every 3 days, see that money stays in the hands of consumers, govt earns more on GST from sales if this money circulates inside the country. Yes, batteries are not made in India but no open can stop India from making it's own batteries and motors. Also the savings in health costs for a family will be huge.

Norway did a splendid job looking forward at the future, instead of virtue signalling by building the tallest building, the biggest at everything with that $500B of oil money.

[amitoj]

The OP needs to fact check the post. Not all EVs are having the VAT exemption removed. Electric cars costing more than 600K kroner will be taxed 4% and those costing more than a million kroner will be taxed at 12.5%.
https://www.electrive.com/2022/05/13...electric-cars/

Electric vehicles are not really the optimal solution to pollution anyway.

[Jeroen]

In most of Europe EV will be cheaper to buy than an ICE type of car in the next 2-3 years. The number of new EVs flooding the market is staggering and prices have been coming down gradually. And more and more EVs in the lower segments as well.

On total cost of ownership most EVs are already better than ICE car.

With most EU countries banning the sale of ICE vehicle from 2030 onwards it is also expected that soon few people will want buy an ICE vehicle. Second hand market off ICE vehicles is going south very soon. Second hand ICE vehicle will find their way to non EU countries. To a large extent this is already happening with old diesel cars.

The Finnish government is correct in taking away some subsidies as the EV market is become more mature. It’s a good thing overall I think.

Jeroen

[dragracer567]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Second hand ICE vehicle will find their way to non EU countries. To a large extent this is already happening with old diesel cars.

Jeroen

Doesn't that negate the whole point of moving to EVs? Not like the EU would be insulated from climate change if the same old ICE cars are still being used in some distant third-world country!

Apologies if I sound ignorant.

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by Indian2003

This shows that it was not the environment but money that was the main driving force for people to buy EVs. Same with me. I bought an EV only for the benefits.

It's the oldest trick in the book - reduce the cost of the purchase to encourage more sales, especially when it's a new vehicle. We see it happening for all new car (ICE) launches too. The removal of tax advantages will happen everywhere else, even in India, once EV sales become more mainstream here. The benefit is for the government in the long run due to the reduction in dependency on fossil fuels.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by dragracer567

Doesn't that negate the whole point of moving to EVs? Not like the EU would be insulated from climate change if the same old ICE cars are still being used in some distant third-world country!

Apologies if I sound ignorant.

It’s a good point. But that is just how these things work out. The EU/Western countries are likely to be years if not decades ahead of other countries in the world. Which will mean that the old EU ICE second hand cars make their way to these other countries.

There are virtually no old diesel cars (20 years plus) left here in the Netherlands, due to some very strict legislation introduced about a decade ago. Check the export statistics, nearly all those spdiesel cars were exported to (north) Africa. So from a Dutch point of view a lot of improvement and it is measurable as well of course, especially in major cities! But it has just been moved to Africa.

So on a global scale, that will have an effect. However, in the EU/Western world the effects of banning ICE cars is going to be very, very noticeable.

Personally I think the western world takes a very isolated look at these sort of environmental challenges. We have the wealth and the know how to solve it, but prefer to do so only locally in our little country. Maybe that is just how these things play out, the rest of the country will follow, no doubt. But is likely to be behind and stay behind.

My wife grew up on Barbados. A tiny island, 250.000 inhabitants, on the edge of the Caribbean Sea. It feels the impact of all this climate change in a big way. (Sea level rising, pollution of the sea, lack of fresh water etc). But how can you expect a tiny country to have any impact on these global challenges? But they are facing all the impacts, often more so than other countries and lack the resources to take any meaningful action themselves.

So lots to be improved. But let’s count our blessings, this whole transition, based on environmental concerns and challenges is most definitely underway, globally. Still a lot could/should be improved imo.

Jeroen

[SKC-auto]

Originally Posted by dragracer567

Doesn't that negate the whole point of moving to EVs? Not like the EU would be insulated from climate change if the same old ICE cars are still being used in some distant third-world country!

Apologies if I sound ignorant.

Still better I believe, suppose these EURO-4,5,6 cars replace EURO -1,2,3 cars in the third world country.

[DarthVeda]

Originally Posted by amitoj

Electric vehicles are not really the optimal solution to pollution anyway.

You are quite right, my friend. Teleportation is the best solution, can't wait for it to happen in the near future.

On the topic, the current BEV might not be the ideal solution but the electric power train is the BEST solution for vehicular movement other than "teleportation".

The power source to that electric power train can evolve and change, unfortunately, the same cannot be said to the ICE.

[FiatDiesel]

I always have this doubt that how EVs are green and how government will tax us if dependence on fossil fuel gets reduced for common citizen.

1. Batteries use rare earth minerals mostly coming from Africa mostly controlled by Chinese companies.
2. Electricity generation itself is source of pollution.
3. More nuclear reactors for bulk generation of electricity? Safeguard against nuclear incidents?
3. More power cuts due to surge in demand?
4. Tax on electricity?

This is not sustainable unless each home generates electricity through solar cells on roof like in Europe, else power demand for our nation will further surge leading to more power cuts.
Also taxes will come, if not on electricity then on vehicles to compensate Rs. 60-70 per litre which government gets from each citizens pocket in multiples of 10s.

Better to stick to your current ICE car and let the market mature to get clarity on things to come.

[Old_Salt]

Just trying to connect the dots, taking a leaf from Dr S Jaishankars recent interview.

A quote which stood out was that Europe has to change their mindset,
"If its you, its yours. If its me, its ours"

The EU/West may seem to be years ahead, but actions speak louder.
If EU really really wants to combat, "global warming", scrap your cars!!
Do NOT allow any export.

They are not fit for Europes consumption, but its just okay. Let Africa use it.

Its just convenient to pollute the rest of the continent, as long as we look cool in the eyes of the rest of the world.

Its a fact, global demand and supply especially in economically weaker countries will always supercede.

I use to work on Car Carriers almost 2 decades ago and we use to literally load junk from Japan / Korea / Non starting cars towed into ships. Their destination on paper was middle east, but final destination was Afghanistan/Pakistan and the likes. Global...warming...what?

[SideView]

Was always hearing about how Norway has done this, done that. People are soo progressive and what not. This reminds me of the below scene from dark knight.