[coolkurt]

Another bold idea or just lip service without getting into the nitty gritty?

Delhi Transport Minister Kailash Gahlot on Thursday announced that old diesel vehicles can now be retrofitted with electric kits. The transport department will empanel manufacturers of electric kits for retrofitting conventional internal combustion engines (ICE) to electric ones. Once empanelled, this will allow old diesel vehicles to continue ply in Delhi-NCR even after 10 years.

Delhi is now open to ICE to electric retrofitting! Vehicles if found fit can convert their diesel to electric engine, dept'll empanel manufacturers of pure electric kit by approved testing agencies. Once empanelled this'll enable vehicles to continue plying here beyond 10 yrs.
- Kailash Gahlot (@kgahlot) November 18, 2021

As per the orders issued by the National Green Tribunal (2015) and the Supreme Court (2018), over 10-year-old diesel and 15-year old petrol vehicles cannot operate in Delhi-NCR
Source

The task of removing the engine and installation of an electric motor, the addition of a big battery pack and electricals is a major job in itself. And then there's the cost of doing the entire exercise. Buying a new car would be a lot cheaper!

[padmrajravi]

I dont know how easy or practical it is to implement this. But this is one of my dreams. Battery technology maturing to the extend that a battery roughly the size of a 60L fuel tank gives us about 600kms range . And then a motor in place of engine connected to the existing transmission such that all mechanicals work as original. I am praying for this law to actually happen and such conversion kits being available in 10 years.

[ruzbehxyz]

No one is going to go through the pain of converting a diesel car to electric. And do we have the expertise ?

Selling the car and buying a new / used electric vehicle will be more prudent in the long run.

Rules keep changing every day. Even if someone does the change, what is the guarantee that the Government will not rechange the rule ?

[youknowitbetter]

anyone knows if there are good retrofitting kits that are available? Or is this an attempt for government to give impetus to start-ups to work on such kits?

[alpha1]

Originally Posted by coolkurt

Delhi Transport Minister Kailash Gahlot on Thursday announced that old diesel vehicles can now be retrofitted with electric kits. The transport department will empanel manufacturers of electric kits for retrofitting conventional internal combustion engines (ICE) to electric ones. Once empanelled, this will allow old diesel vehicles to continue ply in Delhi-NCR even after 10 years.

This looks to be more sensible for Commercial vehicles.
I think it will be financially doable and profitable too, as well as less polluting.

[Eddy]

Ladies and Gentlemen, please welcome potential bombs zipping around in the city soon.

As much as I hate the 10-year-old rule, I am not risking this conversion at all. And I hope this is rejected en masse for the sake of safety.

[amvj]

It's shocking that govt who fines the motorist for fitting after market exhaust, fitting big tyre, snorkel but allowing EV conversion ?

Our country lacks Engineering expertise. How many would go to a local shop to convert ICE to EV. It's dangerous and untested. I find the local shops struggle to properly fit even a simple thing like fog lamps.

Also on the cost front, batteries cost the majority for EV. It is better to replace the car instead.

Or is this because of any upcoming elections ?

[Rahul Rao]

Some time back a company named Hylion in the US converted the 3rd dead axle in 3 axle trucks to electric. This arrangement charges batteries when truck is coasting in gear with foot off throttle, and when brake is touched.
Drivers can use only electric with engine switched off when stuck in traffic upto a speed of 20 Mph ie 32 kph. They can also use electric for additional torque on gradients.
https://www.truckinginfo.com/142660/...l-hyliion-says
Such a conversion from a established company is acceptable, not a local road side channi hatodi mechanics conversion. We see lot of the later types of CNG vehicles and also see them go up in flames.

Rahul

[Sran]

Originally Posted by ruzbehxyz

And do we have the expertise ?

Originally Posted by youknowitbetter

anyone knows if there are good retrofitting kits that are available?

Our own forum member stuntfreak has done some brilliant work in this regard. I congratulate him for future business in Delhi.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/elect...ctric-car.html (Swift Dzire EV - Systematic conversion to an electric car!)

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/elect...uti-800-a.html (EV Conversion of my Maruti 800)

[Turbohead]

Ideally states should not come up with their own rules of how things can be implemented- regulations should ideally be global to reduce costs and for advocating standards set by people who know what they're doing and not by some bureaucrats with half knowledge at best.

The Delhi govt simply does not know what's it's getting into. This is serious stuff and can affect/ take away people's lives and cannot be determined by trial and error method on actual customers/citizens.

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by coolkurt

Another bold idea or just lip service without getting into the nitty gritty?

Delhi Transport Minister Kailash Gahlot on Thursday announced that old diesel vehicles can now be retrofitted with electric kits. The transport department will empanel manufacturers of electric kits for retrofitting conventional internal combustion engines (ICE) to electric ones. Once empanelled, this will allow old diesel vehicles to continue ply in Delhi-NCR even after 10 years.

I really don't know enough but some questions pop right up:

1. Does the law allow states to take such decisions?

2. While on one end, we talk about safety (seat belts compulsory, crash testing, electronics, speed limits, challans for all sundry matters related to safety) will the new designs be subjected to any safety testing at all?

3. Besides other things, the weight distribution and centre of gravity will also change, thereby impacting the dynamics and I suppose, also suspension of the car. Any design and safety checks on that?

4. With the sheer number of models on road, if the above testing and checks are carried out, would it even be cost effective/viable?

It is one thing for the odd modified car to ve on road, and totally another for a policy/rules being in place to have large numbers on the road.

[anjan_c2007]

The automobile manufacturers lobby was very happy with the NGT and Supreme Court decisions that saw such a 10/15 year ban on private cars effective from 2016. They were rejoicing with the Delhi car sales zooming, due to the de-registrations of the oldies. The pandemic took the winds out of their sails and then came the semiconductor chip shortage.

Now this decision of "electrification of old diesels" (the railways had also replaced diesel engines with electric engines ) will again become their killjoy. This time it won't be easy sailing for the Delhi government. The automobile manufacturers lobby could file new civil suits claiming that safety on the Delhi roads is being compromised with old diesel, Zero NCAP rated and unsafe cars endangering lives of the road users and also the car's occupants. And they may win too!

[Shresth_EV]

Originally Posted by Poitive

I really don't know enough but some questions pop right up:

1. Does the law allow states to take such decisions?

2. While on one end, we talk about safety (seat belts compulsory, crash testing, electronics, speed limits, challans for all sundry matters related to safety) will the new designs be subjected to any safety testing at all?

3. Besides other things, the weight distribution and centre of gravity will also change, thereby impacting the dynamics and I suppose, also suspension of the car. Any design and safety checks on that?

4. With the sheer number of models on road, if the above testing and checks are carried out, would it even be cost effective/viable?

It is one thing for the odd modified car to ve on road, and totally another for a policy/rules being in place to have large numbers on the road.

The question isn’t about the legality as it’s pretty much allowed — I think multiple posts have been made on that topic on this forum — including one of the most viewed ones which included a Chevy Beat EV conversion.

I think I read that one needs to get the vehicle re-registered after converting to electric to RTO will ensure that the bare minimum standards are met. So the checking will be done as and when you re-register the vehicle.

I imagine that the cost will be recouped by charging a modest “re-registration fee” — more than registering a new EV but less than registering a new P/D car.

Originally Posted by amvj

Also on the cost front, batteries cost the majority for EV. It is better to replace the car instead.

Originally Posted by ruzbehxyz

No one is going to go through the pain of converting a diesel car to electric. And do we have the expertise ?

Selling the car and buying a new / used electric vehicle will be more prudent in the long run.

It appears that you’re spot on. It’s cheaper to just go with a new Electric car than converting existing. It’s essentially a money pit if you are bent on conversion. This site claims that rough cost of conversion kit worth 150km range for alto is ₹7L.

Assuming optimistically that it’s same cost for making Nexon conversion, from base model, (₹7.3L exS) you already get to the cost of NEW Nexon EV base model if you covert old Nexon. Now

1. For assumption, even in worst driving cases, you’d be able to get 170-180km range on new Nexon EV. What’s use of paying same cost for conversion (and maybe labour and registration over it) to get lesser range?

2. The company built car is new, has ”new car appeal” and probably has far more features than the model you intend to convert.

3. Warranty-Guarantee on kits is unknown. Servicing is a headache. At least you can feel confident with OEM warranty and service network (even with the little maintenance that EVs need) of a car brand over a kit manufacturer.

4. You get some money from scrapping/selling your old car. We just sold away our Eon LPG 2012 for ₹1.2L in favour of getting a Nexon EV.

So it is far far better to sell off the old Nexon for what it’s worth and buy a Nexon EV (btw Nexon base variant has lesser features than Nexon EV base variant — Tata is bundling extra features in EV base model). Used Nexon just for comparison sake as there isn’t any proper alto EV alternative — again, the cost for converting Nexon to 150km range EV might be more due to need of bigger battery (due to its larger size than alto)

Originally Posted by padmrajravi

I dont know how easy or practical it is to implement this. But this is one of my dreams. Battery technology maturing to the extend that a battery roughly the size of a 60L fuel tank gives us about 600kms range . And then a motor in place of engine connected to the existing transmission such that all mechanicals work as original. I am praying for this law to actually happen and such conversion kits being available in 10 years.

Size sure, but weight, absolutely no. Tesla batteries get to 500kg marks easily. And those are NCA/NMC cells which have more energy density (and more price) than LFP cells (which cheaper EVs like BYD and Tata use)

500kg is often the amount of weight over the kerb weight allowed on big 7 seat cars. (Correct me if wrong, but I’m too lazy to check what’s permissible occupant weight by CMVR)

No way you’re getting 600km range out of converted cars. Even Mercedes couldn’t give more than 450km range on EQC which is essentially stripped down GLC chassis adapted to electric powertrain — whereas bespoke EV platforms which Mercedes made the EQS and EQE on, have >500km range.

Sorry to say, but even “OEM Converted EVs” can’t get 500km so a crude third party workshop kit getting it, is a pipe dream.

[GTO]

IMHO, it's a great idea, but one that's ahead of its time. The "EV conversion" industry hasn't developed yet. It will someday for sure & we'll be able to get kits of all kinds from China (hopefully India too??) = cheap + rubbish ones as well as well-engineered high quality kits @ higher price points.

10 years from now, I'd sure love to convert my old Jeep to an EV.

And it'll be a great way for Delhi'ites to retain their cars for longer.

[sandeepmohan]

I am glad our Government is open to the idea of conversion. There is a market for well designed and engineered EV conversion jobs. Whoever jumps into this first is going to win big, not just for extending the life of a 10+ year old vehicle, even for gasoline, LCV class vehicles that are <10 years old.

What will help is support for local battery manufacturing. I don't think we have any for cars or the type of battery used on EV's.

The problem area will be vehicles and not to forget, the cost to do these conversions. Nobody is going to give away a good design for free. Existing cars are not designed to accommodate a battery pack, which should ideally be on the floor. You'll need to pick the top 5 most sold or available cars and design a battery pack around those.