[SKC-auto]

Originally Posted by souvikjana83

While on one side, we are making Delhi-Mumbai Expressway where one can reach the 1200 kms distance in 12 hrs, imagine covering that in an EV stopping every 200 kms to charge battery for 1 hr and thereby taking 20-24 hrs to cover the entire distance instead of 12 hrs.

Nope, not at all acceptable to me.

The PHEV looks like a perfect solution since we do not have proper charging infrastructure, and Nexon EV is not a competent highway car with poor fast charging ability. We don't have any PHEV in the market as well, I hope we will have better EVs before we see PHEVs.

Once you bring in an EV with 300km real world range on highway, the time taken for the journey will be almost equal to the ICE car. Fast charging times are 30mins not 1 hour, having 3 30mins stops on a 1200km journey is not a big deal. ICE cars can go 1200km with one fuel stop, but the driver needs to anyhow have to stop for washrooms, breakfast, lunch, tea.

It's neither healthy nor safe & practical to drive 1200kms without a stop, I would prefer an option which saves me money even if it takes 2hours more time for a distance of 1200kms.

[souvikjana83]

Originally Posted by SKC-auto

The PHEV looks like a perfect solution since we do not have proper charging infrastructure.

Once you bring in an EV with 300km real world range on highway, the time taken for the journey will be almost equal to the ICE car. Fast charging times are 30mins not 1 hour, having 3 30mins stops on a 1200km journey is not a big deal. ICE cars can go 1200km with one fuel stop, but the driver needs to anyhow have to stop for washrooms, breakfast, lunch, tea.

You are missing a big point in this. The more one wants range in the EV, the larger will be the battery pack and more will be its weight and the overall cost of vehicle will be huge.

While in PHEV, you won't need a big battery. A small battery giving 50-100 kms range will be perfect for city commutes. It will bring down the cost a lot. Rest will be as per standard hybrid. Like the below Toyota vehicle is perfect for India IMHO:
https://www.toyota-europe.com/world-...hybrid-vehicle

But this is not available in India. I think this is where Indian companies like Tata and Mahindra should work on developing these types of vehicles in India.

[SKC-auto]

Originally Posted by souvikjana83

You are missing a big point in this. The more one wants range in the EV, the larger will be the battery pack and more will be its weight and the overall cost of vehicle will be huge.

I understand your point, but PHEV are not much cheaper(see below) than EVs, the maintenance expenses are huge as the engine stays dry for months. I read stories of GM Volt automatically turning on the engine to burn old fuel and to preserve the engine, not everyone goes road trip every month. Once we have better EV infrastructure, PHEV look unnecessary.

I checked UK prices for PHEV and BEV. I also believe for smaller cars BEVs are a better option than PHEV.

Golf GTE £36,700.
ID3 Tour 77kwh battery £38,815.

BMW 330e SE Pro £40440
Tesla Model 3 SR+ £40990
Tesla Model 3 LR £48490

I was just reading posts in Travel and Route queries, there are numerous road trip and travel posts, some members doing greater than 800km in a day on their ICE vehicle, having 2-3hours break for a 800km distance is common, I don't think charging is a problem for EVs.

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by souvikjana83

You are missing a big point in this. The more one wants range in the EV, the larger will be the battery pack and more will be its weight and the overall cost of vehicle will be huge.

You are wrong because every aspect of battery technology keeps improving.

Battery density increases enabling it to store more energy despite similar dimensions.

In 5 years the Model S has shed more than 100 lbs but range has improved by 40% !

It is incorrect to assume that battery technology is stationary!

EVs have surpassed IC engines in every aspect, refinement, performance, emissions.... range, cost and perception are the final barriers. But 99% of the people do not drive more than 200-300 kms on a daily basis.

If one drives more than 300 kms on a daily basis simply continue using IC engines till EV technology catches up. If the long drives are very occasional then an hours wait is not the end of the world.


Perception and range anxiety will take time to overcome.

[Shresth_EV]

Originally Posted by SKC-auto

The PHEV looks like a perfect solution since we do not have proper charging infrastructure, and Nexon EV is not a competent highway car with poor fast charging ability. We don't have any PHEV in the market as well, I hope we will have better EVs before we see PHEVs.

The problem comes back to square one because again, these PHEVs need to be charged to take advantage of the better mileage and zero emission mode (e-mode).

That is a problem just like EVs because it puts responsibility upon user to charge it everyday. According to this article (a survey on UK PHEV drivers), people failed to charge their PHEVs due to several reasons (forgot/don’t have an outlet/lack of awareness that you need to charge), resulting in poor mileage and more emissions than a pure ICE car of same model (because the PHEVs is lugging around extra weight of electric powertrain)

So again, if people want to get the desired high mileage, they need to absolutely use it in combined mode or E-mode. Using in fuel mode on highway defeats purpose of hybrid as you’ll be consuming more fuel and creating more pollution than same car which is pure ICE.

Originally Posted by souvikjana83

You are missing a big point in this. The more one wants range in the EV, the larger will be the battery pack and more will be its weight and the overall cost of vehicle will be huge.

While in PHEV, you won't need a big battery. A small battery giving 50-100 kms range will be perfect for city commutes. It will bring down the cost a lot. Rest will be as per standard hybrid. Like the below Toyota vehicle is perfect for India IMHO:
https://www.toyota-europe.com/world-...hybrid-vehicle

Let’s throw out the interior space for a moment, even if we assume just the cost and weight perspective here, diesel auto Nexon is 1300kg and Nexon EV is 1370kg. That’s with no engine upfront and 30kWh battery. (260kg for 30kWh)

Keeping same engine and adding a 10kWh (86kg) battery (100km e mode) would make it already heavier than Nexon EV, and we aren’t even adding the inverter, BMS and the motor for second axle/integrated motor in transmission.

So in fact, due to this extra weight, you’d get less mileage than normal diesel auto Nexon in diesel only mode.

Coming to cost, again, as per present trends of 150$/kWh, you’re looking at 1.2L purely for battery. Then the BMS/motor/inverter. You’ll match, if not exceed, Nexon EV XZ+ pricing (considering we are comparing with the Nexon XZA+ (D) AMT Dual tone, which has exactly same feature set as Nexon EV XZ+). You could of course compare with a lower trim of Nexon but then again, you’d lose features you otherwise get in the Nexon EV.

People forget that in EVs, you don’t pay for engine and gearbox which are quite costly parts. That price is not offset in a PHEV.

[souvikjana83]

https://youtu.be/rA65jkrxcMI

This is a video review from Pakistan of a Toyota Prius Plug In Hybrid. Toyota Claims mileage figures of 56 km/l and the guy see mileage figures of 67 km/l in the car.. This is phenomenal.

I know Prius is costly and this car if comes to India may well price above Rs 45 lacs. But this is not made in India and will come as a CBU. This is where Tata and Mahindra should try and see if they can bring out products similar to these which can give similar numbers and won't cost a zillion.

As everyone is aware, Toyota Prius Hybrid is the most reliable car in the world and there are people who have driven this car for more that 6-7 lacs kms and still vouch for the reliability of this car.

I wish Toyota manufacture this in India and launch it. I would like to see at what prices it will be able to launch this car in India if it is made in India.

[DarthVeda]

Originally Posted by souvikjana83

https://Youtu.be/rA65jkrxcMI

This is a video review from Pakistan of a Toyota Prius Plug In Hybrid. Toyota Claims mileage figures of 56 km/l and the guy see mileage figures of 67 km/l in the car.. This is phenomenal.

It's how you represent the numbers, a hybrid car has a small battery, which can give you a range of less than 50kms (assumption). What these guys will do is have that battery full charged. Run it on low speed, which triggers the electric motor to propel the car and will be running on that battery then once it runs out of juice, the petrol engine will take over, which would give you another 12km/l.
So there you have 50 + 12km/l = 62 km/l.

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by souvikjana83

https://Youtu.be/rA65jkrxcMI

This is a video review from Pakistan of a Toyota Prius Plug In Hybrid. Toyota Claims mileage figures of 56 km/l and the guy see mileage figures of 67 km/l in the car.. This is phenomenal.

I know Prius is costly and this car if comes to India may well price above Rs 45 lacs. But this is not made in India and will come as a CBU. This is where Tata and Mahindra should try and see if they can bring out products similar to these which can give similar numbers and won't cost a zillion.

As everyone is aware, Toyota Prius Hybrid is the most reliable car in the world and there are people who have driven this car for more that 6-7 lacs kms and still vouch for the reliability of this car.

I wish Toyota manufacture this in India and launch it. I would like to see at what prices it will be able to launch this car in India if it is made in India.

Honda launched the hybrid Civic and it failed terribly. Last few cars were sold at a loss to get rid of stock. Even the Prius is struggling globally!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDAphEzYAzM

[souvikjana83]

The hybrid technology is costly for sure and very few people are able to afford it in general. So what I understand is that the basic purpose of getting low cost electric vehicle without long charge times remains a distant dream in India till Aluminium Air Battery Technology becomes commercial.

I wish Tata and Mahindra can take its Nexon and XUV300 and blend half of its petrol version and half of its electric version together. Like the front wheels powered by the petrol engine and rear wheel powered by electric motor. Half the volume of battery and fuel tank and put them together in a vehicle. No hybrid tech. Just drive either by electric or by petrol in the same vehicle.

Well they might have tried that for sure. Probably didn't work out. Who knows.

[volkman10]

Tata Motors Records Highest-Ever EV Sales In FY2021-22.

In FY2021-22, Tata Motors achieved an annual EV sales figure of 19,106 units, with a 352.86 per cent YoY sales growth.


Link