[Phantom 510]

TATA TIGOR EV.
1. Compact dimensions would make it easier in the narrow congested localities.
2. Ease of manoeuvrability due to it's smaller turning circle.
3. Solid build and grown up road manners for a car of its size with a comfortable ride quality.
4. It almost matches the Nexon EV's range and has an identical top speed (agreed it's slower to accelerate).
5. Approachable price point (with the incentives in place) for many people who might find Nexon EV's price tag out of their comfort zone (affordability is an entirely subjective topic).

[ArTigor]

Voted for Nexon EV considering no budget constrains. For the Nexon top variant, 3.4 lakhs over the Tigor EV, what you get is a much superior car, spacious interior, better power and range, better ride quality due to great suspension, bigger tyres etc, and a much better driving experience. But if someone has a strict budget around 12-13 lakhs then I would suggest the Tigor EV top end. IMHO for the EV's, only the top end makes much sence as any aftermarket addition can risk the electrical circuits and voltage balance, a minor undetected electric current leak can be a disaster with the EV's!

[sajaijayan]

Voted for Nexon EV.
Although the Tigor is a very good effort by Tata, I felt they should have just stuck with the same motor, battery and electrics as the Nexon and priced it just a slight notch below. Probably could have just achieved better efficiency of scale on components and made the overall EV package more appealing.

Anyway a good start and hope they go from strength to strength and encourage others to follow quickly.

[Ajay_Sensei]

Voted for Nexon EV, which is a fantastic effort by Tata Motors! It has become a showcase EV for Tata Motors and of course a market leader.

It would have been nice to see a sub-10 lakh price for Tigor EV, even if it were introductory pricing for the first few months. But I don't know whether the tech really allows them to price the vehicle at that price point.

Hoping my next car will be an EV from TM stables.

[officer416]

Originally Posted by Eddy

If I were to buy an EV today, it would be the MG ZS EV. Don't trust Tata/Mahindra enough to buy their V1 cars, let alone a totally new technology.

That said, I would ideally want to wait for a couple of years before taking an EV plunge.

Didn't know SAIC (China)/MG UK has a long history of making Electric Vehicles. Won't trust 1 gen Chinese and British engineered vehicle especially electric one. British cars are known for their electronics unreliability anyway.

[officer416]

Originally Posted by lina

As a recent buyer of an EV, and having done a lot of research, I chose "Other". The "Other" being ZS EV. Nexon EV is a really good car but Tata has unnecessarily handicapped it in a few ways:

1. Small Battery - 30kWh implies that it has to be a second car. The car wont do more than 200km on the highway unless you make major sacrifices while driving. Nexon with a 45 or 60kWh battery will see a lot of customers. Yes, the cost will go up but honestly, the Nexon EV drives much better than a Creta or Harrier and can easily compete with those segments.
2. Slow Fast charging - Nexon EV charges only at 25kW. So, it will take a lot of time to charge the car. A car like the ZS EV can actually get more range in shorter time if a faster charger is available. Also, Ive seen many Youtube videos where the Nexon EV has issues after fast charging - randomly switching to Neutral while driving etc.
3. Regen braking isnt as powerful as Kona or ZS and cant be adjusted.
4. No traction control - The regular Nexon gets it. With all that torque from 0 RPM, traction control is a necessity in EVs.
5. Lack of 6 airbags - Yes, the Nexon is crash tested. But why cant Tata install 6 airbags in it? Informed customers like me would avoid a car simply on the basis of one such omission.

The Tigor has all these handicaps and more. It is almost the same price and has a lesser boot space, less power and less comfort. I really wish the EV industry India is not a race to the bottom. Cheap cars with small batteries and slow charging times will become a headache in a few years and will in turn end up irritating future EV buyers. Car manufacturers should instead focus on creating quality products in the 20-30L range that have adequate power, range and luxury. Currently cars like Creta, Kushaq, Harrier are way too overpriced for what they offer. Good EVs from a segment below can give these cars a tough fight. Im hoping the XUV 700 comes in an EV avatar for about 25L OTR,

So Nexon EV range starts from 13.99 lacs (On road in MH 12.49) and most popular model sold is XZ+ 15.65 (On road in MH 14.22) after subsidy. Even if we don't add any subsidy its still more affordable than MG ZS EV which cost 21 and 24.58 Ex showroom with no subsidy available.
So we have to see that the car is targeted at a different buyer of a different segment.
I didn't find some set of features that were available in Jaguar i-Pace in MG ZS EV, so does that make ZS EV a less of a product for its price?

If we add all the features you are requesting like 6 airbags, ultra fast charging architecture that will push cost into ZS EV segment. Then people will complain the price is way too high for a compact SUV. Tata must have done something right that its the highest selling EV in the country. Same goes for the Tigor, after subsidies its less than 12 lacs for top most variant. The point here is to make it more mass market with least amount of compromises than go all in and make it an enthusiast's product. Batteries ain't cheap right now.

No, it doesn't take too long to charge Nexon EV at a fast charger, in less than an hour you can have more than 80% charge even if you arrive at 0%. When you are doing top ups with already available charge, then its even less.

[lina]

Originally Posted by officer416

So Nexon EV range starts from 13.99 lacs (On road in MH 12.49) and most popular model sold is XZ+ 15.65 (On road in MH 14.22) after subsidy. Even if we don't add any subsidy its still more affordable than MG ZS EV which cost 21 and 24.58 Ex showroom with no subsidy available.
So we have to see that the car is targeted at a different buyer of a different segment.
I didn't find some set of features that were available in Jaguar i-Pace in MG ZS EV, so does that make ZS EV a less of a product for its price?

If we add all the features you are requesting like 6 airbags, ultra fast charging architecture that will push cost into ZS EV segment. Then people will complain the price is way too high for a compact SUV. Tata must have done something right that its the highest selling EV in the country. Same goes for the Tigor, after subsidies its less than 12 lacs for top most variant. The point here is to make it more mass market with least amount of compromises than go all in and make it an enthusiast's product. Batteries ain't cheap right now.

No, it doesn't take too long to charge Nexon EV at a fast charger, in less than an hour you can have more than 80% charge even if you arrive at 0%. When you are doing top ups with already available charge, then its even less.

The ZS EV is comparable to the Nexon EV in the same way that the Nexon EV is comparable to the Tigor. For someone in Bangalore without said subsidy, the ZS EV is about 4L more. Very similar to the decision to be made between a Creta low end and Venue top end. The Nexon and ZS are not as far apart as you make it to be. As some who booked a Nexon and cancelled it, I know.

The Nexon has features like a sun roof, connected tech, auto headlights, rain wipers and leather seats in the top version which someone like me would have easily traded for 6 airbags (which is exactly what I did while choosing the Excite model of the ZS). So, yes, Tata could have put in those features within that price point. The 6 airbags gripe is something I have with Tata for the regular Nexon as well. Kudos to Mahindra for making 4 airbags as standard on the 700 and that too 2 of them being curtain.
The ZS EV is a CKD and bigger car. Inspite of that, it is just 4L more than the top end Nexon which is why I feel they are very comparable.

Coming to the charging speed. Yes, it goes to 80% in an hour but how many kilometers is that? We shouldnt ideally be looking at battery percentage while comparing charging speeds but km per min. A nexon on the road will end up spending more time at chargers not because of its smaller battery but slower charging speed. In the long term, even when charging infra improves, this will be a major handicap for the Nexon EV. This is one of the main reasons I decided against this car.

[Vijay T]

Voted for Tigor.
Seems to me to be best option for limited city running & in that sense VFM car. Nessecerily second car for me earlier being XUV 500.Also Tiago, Tigor are better looking compact cars compared to other EVs like Verito & eve Nexon. Off course looks opinion is subjective.

[officer416]

Originally Posted by lina

The ZS EV is comparable to the Nexon EV in the same way that the Nexon EV is comparable to the Tigor. For someone in Bangalore without said subsidy, the ZS EV is about 4L more. Very similar to the decision to be made between a Creta low end and Venue top end. The Nexon and ZS are not as far apart as you make it to be. As some who booked a Nexon and cancelled it, I know.

The Nexon has features like a sun roof, connected tech, auto headlights, rain wipers and leather seats in the top version which someone like me would have easily traded for 6 airbags (which is exactly what I did while choosing the Excite model of the ZS). So, yes, Tata could have put in those features within that price point. The 6 airbags gripe is something I have with Tata for the regular Nexon as well. Kudos to Mahindra for making 4 airbags as standard on the 700 and that too 2 of them being curtain.
The ZS EV is a CKD and bigger car. Inspite of that, it is just 4L more than the top end Nexon which is why I feel they are very comparable.

Coming to the charging speed. Yes, it goes to 80% in an hour but how many kilometers is that? We shouldnt ideally be looking at battery percentage while comparing charging speeds but km per min. A nexon on the road will end up spending more time at chargers not because of its smaller battery but slower charging speed. In the long term, even when charging infra improves, this will be a major handicap for the Nexon EV. This is one of the main reasons I decided against this car.

Majority people don't go with additional 4 lac budget to buy a car, that too a base model of higher segment vehicle. Even those who can afford top trim Tigor EV doesn't go for Nexon EV base model as it is barebones inside. They know the limitations. You are exception to take that step, but that's not how it works for majority of the public. If that was the case then Venue top ends would be going for massive discounts as those buyers would have opted for Creta base variant.

Nexon staying on the charging stations for longer will depend on what kind of cross country trip you are planning. 50-60KW charging station doesn't guarantee constant charging speed at that rate. Also those chargers are limited to Tier 1 cities for now, the kind of trips you are talking about will make you stop in smaller cities as well where 25KW are only available, like mostly in Tata and MG dealerships. You hardly get full 25KW, it hovers around 20KW. Nexon will be back on road much quicker and your km per min will depend on various variables.

What you are doing is expecting battery life of iPhone Pro Max from an iPhone Mini. That's not a fair comparison. People buying the mini know its limitation and they will go for it because it works for them. What you are saying is that if people spend 90K more then they are getting much better value. But that's the point Nexon buyers are not interested in spending that extra 4 lacs you talking about.

[ashpalio]

Being an e2o car user for over six years now, I agree with Lina's views. Nexon EV is a fantastic car, booked within an hour of bookings open, to cancel it many months later for some of the drawbacks Lina listed.

One needs to understand EV life cycle, usage, charging pattern, and time to hold duration between two EVs. Unfortunately, here is where Nexon hits IMO.
1. Small batter is delicate for now for the city and near town hopping. The longer distance will cause an issue charging speeds is limited. It will take just a couple of years for High-speed charges to come along the highway. One cannot block the charger with a slow charge Nexon EV and keep a faster charge-capable car waiting.
2. Most of the high-speed chargers will come up on the Highways. Check the southern states, and it's realistic to use even the Nexon EV for long-distance travel because of the fast chargers along the Highway.
3. One is happy now, but 3-4 years down the lane, one will be forced to change the car, which should be the opposite with EVs. They last a long time, meaning the exact vehicle can be used for many more years than the ICE versions.
4. Battery replacement will be an everyday reality shortly. So say after a couple of lakh km, upgrade to new batteries and carry on with the car. So if you have Nexon EV with a higher fast charging capability, the 3.6KW charger limit removed will add a bit of price, which can be offset by eliminating the sunroof (a stupid option in India, IMHO) but increase the longevity and practicality of the car.
5. One should have 6-airbags by default to cover the entire cabin, remember this item has to be Factory Fitted, and plus the car will be owned for many, many years in the future. Safety should be a default, not optional.

[lina]

Originally Posted by officer416

Nexon staying on the charging stations for longer will depend on what kind of cross country trip you are planning. 50-60KW charging station doesn't guarantee constant charging speed at that rate. Also those chargers are limited to Tier 1 cities for now, the kind of trips you are talking about will make you stop in smaller cities as well where 25KW are only available, like mostly in Tata and MG dealerships. You hardly get full 25KW, it hovers around 20KW. Nexon will be back on road much quicker and your km per min will depend on various variables.
.

50 KW chargers are popping up largely in tier 2 and 3 towns and infact at just restaurants on the highway. And rightly so. Here is one such network spreading its wings in South India: http://zeoncharging.com/locations

The 25kW ones are largely Tata power chargers installed at TML and MG showrooms. High time chargers moved away from cities and onto the highways. There is no need for such high concentrations of fast chargers in cities.

[officer416]

Originally Posted by ashpalio

Being an e2o car user for over six years now, I agree with Lina's views. Nexon EV is a fantastic car, booked within an hour of bookings open, to cancel it many months later for some of the drawbacks Lina listed.

One needs to understand EV life cycle, usage, charging pattern, and time to hold duration between two EVs. Unfortunately, here is where Nexon hits IMO.
1. Small batter is delicate for now for the city and near town hopping. The longer distance will cause an issue charging speeds is limited. It will take just a couple of years for High-speed charges to come along the highway. One cannot block the charger with a slow charge Nexon EV and keep a faster charge-capable car waiting.
2. Most of the high-speed chargers will come up on the Highways. Check the southern states, and it's realistic to use even the Nexon EV for long-distance travel because of the fast chargers along the Highway.
3. One is happy now, but 3-4 years down the lane, one will be forced to change the car, which should be the opposite with EVs. They last a long time, meaning the exact vehicle can be used for many more years than the ICE versions.
4. Battery replacement will be an everyday reality shortly. So say after a couple of lakh km, upgrade to new batteries and carry on with the car. So if you have Nexon EV with a higher fast charging capability, the 3.6KW charger limit removed will add a bit of price, which can be offset by eliminating the sunroof (a stupid option in India, IMHO) but increase the longevity and practicality of the car.
5. One should have 6-airbags by default to cover the entire cabin, remember this item has to be Factory Fitted, and plus the car will be owned for many, many years in the future. Safety should be a default, not optional.

Couple of quick points, it is going to take more than 5 years for high KW chargers to come in. Even Tesla is bringing in Level 2 chargers and not Level 3 chargers to India for now. In fact they haven't even updated many of the existing Level 2 chargers in US. The grids and substations will also need to be upgraded to support high powered charging stations.

Secondly, going forward you will see dual cable charging cabinets that can charge two cars at a time. Because its not cost effective to set up numerous single charging cabinets. When that happens your 50 KW charger will split the power into 2 for two cars. So before being worried that a Nexon has occupied your fast charger, you should be more worried if you will get an empty charging station all for yourself.
In fact its quite possible they will offer adapter for existing CHademo plugs so they can be used for CCS2 charging if modifications can be done to the charging unit.
One charging cabinet powering two Teslas is how it goes here, my fellow Tesla owners will know the 2A and 2B life.

Thirdly, No battery replacement won't be a reality anytime soon, Tesla batteries after been driven for over 320000 km have lost 10% range. You have to understand that the range lost is also compensated by company unlocking more available battery out of total capacity. If Nexon has a 30Kwh battery, its not fully available to us. There is a buffer that is kept and with efficiency improvements as well as to compensate any degradation that buffer is unlocked. All can be done through a software update. Also if battery capacity is at least 80%, I am sure Tata will replace it under warranty if its within warranty period.

If anybody watched Mr. Kulkarni's interview regarding why they chose 3.6 architecture, he clearly mentioned that this decision was taken because its quite possible that customers in smaller cities or rural areas might not have 3 phase electricity connection to support the higher wattage architecture. The car was designed for in and around city use, but later when they analyzed the data they found out that customers are using it more on highways and the vehicles does the job well. So of course next iteration will have more improvements.

Car manufacturers don't work like this where they say, hey I have removed the sunroof that costed us few thousand rupees, can you add 10 more cells to the battery pack instead or be like lets remove the spare wheel and fill it up with a battery pack. You have to keep in mind the weight and architecture of the car.
You own an E2o for 6 years, you know its limitation but you work around it to make it work for you. I am sure it can't even do the range of Tigor EV nor it can accept fast charging like it. How many airbags does it come equipped with? Have you stopped driving it in the city because it doesn't have 6 airbags? How about long trips? Lets be realistic and not bash on products just because we have unrealistic expectations for a set amount of budget.

Also there is no law that will make me guilty of blocking a charger because my car is charging at 25KW and no one will be forced to change his car's charging architecture because Nexon fast charging @25 KW is fast enough for years to come. It's like saying that older Diesel vehicles will be forced to add DEF fluid system since BS6 vehicles are now launched.
If that ever happens then the E2o owners should be worried first.

[officer416]

Originally Posted by lina

50 KW chargers are popping up largely in tier 2 and 3 towns and infact at just restaurants on the highway. And rightly so. Here is one such network spreading its wings in South India: http://zeoncharging.com/locations

All of them mentions "Upto" 50 KW, just like those upto 60% discounts ads. For now its a unicorn rate of charge, will se when it becomes a reality.

[carthick1000]

Originally Posted by officer416

All of them mentions "Upto" 50 KW, just like those upto 60% discounts ads. For now its a unicorn rate of charge, will se when it becomes a reality.

It is logical to mention upto 'N' kW, as it is not the charger which reduces power (lesser kW), but the car itself requesting lower power for charging as % state of charge (SoC) becomes higher.

For eg, here is the charging curve for European spec Hyundai Kona electric smaller and bigger battery versions (connected to 175kW charger) and MG ZS EV (connected to 50kW and 175kW chargers).





source: Kona & ZS EV

What I would love to see is that fast charger service providers should provide how EVs like Tigor and Nexon perform with their respective fast chargers, like the curves above.

[officer416]

Originally Posted by carthick1000

It is logical to mention upto 'N' kW, as it is not the charger which reduces power (lesser kW), but the car itself requesting lower power for charging as % state of charge (SoC) becomes higher.

What I would love to see is that fast charger service providers should provide how EVs like Tigor and Nexon perform with their respective fast chargers, like the curves above.

Yes that is one aspect of it, but in India there is a slight difference compared to say here in US. The voltage fluctuations affect how much current (amps) the chargers are actually receiving which affects the output. The grids aren't super stable and as the consumptions increase during different hours of the day, you can see the difference.

Also in my Tesla the rate of charge is higher when the battery pack is toasty compared to a colder battery pack. I wish Tata can make that data available if it works the same way for Nexon.