[lamborghini]

Looking at the prices, this doesn't make financial sense for many users. Cost of conversion is one, there is also the fear of cost of battery replacement + cost of generating the electricity.

The way I see it, there are two customers for these EV converts:
1) Those who want to go green. Like a car, but no EV option? This could be the next best thing. Plus I'm sure you would get some resale value from the existing engine.

2) Those who are looking at future proofing their vehicle with the intention of keeping it forever. I think this could make some of those older Fiats, etc. into attractive daily drivers with the newer more modern internals giving the vehicles a fresh life

[sandeepmohan]

I am big fan of EV conversion jobs and see a huge market for this sort of thing. The only caveat being, with most cars never being designed from the ground up to be an EV, how safe will it be once you have all those batteries on board. If a few cars can be crash tested and we are sure of their structural integrity, its a win.

[clevermax]

What kind of battery is being used in this conversion? If it's the usual lead acid battery, that itself is reason enough to stay far far away from this offering. Lead acid batteries will anyway fail and the failure will be accelerated by the service guys using water from the nearby lake to top them up during services.

[HP-BHP]

It seems that after using the conversion kit, the car (Maruti Dzire) still has the manual or AMT transmission. My understanding is based on the Northway Motorsports YouTube video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sv6f4smmhg

and PluginIndia Electric Vehicles YouTube Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPmLTVs3ReI

While understand that using manual / AMT transmission in electric vehicles is not desirable as it makes the transmission more complex but somehow based on my limited understanding, using CVT / TC transmission in an electric vehicle can increase the range tremendously as you can keep the electric motor RPM lower and hence reducing the power consumption.

CVT / TC transmissions are both fairly reliable so is there any specific reason why are they not being used in electric cars more often?

[av8er]

Originally Posted by RedViper

I have a 15-year-old Santro Xing that has clocked 175000 KMs. When such conversions are available for Santro, I might consider this. This might just work well for office commute and city runabouts. I also have a Creta CRDi for those road trips.

There is a company in Hyderabad which is doing it. I asked for my Santro Xing as well, but then I felt its not worth it as I was not keen on spending 5lakhs for a 13yr old Santro.

[GTO]

Agreed on the old car sentiment. For my old Jeep, I would consider an EV heart whenever the current powertrain gives way. Old cars like my Jeep are anyway fun toys, used at the max of once a week. I can think of many vintage car owners also who would be tempted.

Zero pollution, lesser maintenance, smooth drive (the vibrations of my Jeep can rearrange your teeth!), faster acceleration and hopefully superior reliability once the technology matures.

My last engine swap + related expenses came up to 2 lakhs. Prices for such EV transplants will come down and would be tempting at 3 - 4 lakhs.

[smooth indian]

- This will mostly make sense for older (>10 years) entry level or compact cars. Even then It would be preferable if post conversion the car registration is valid for the next 10-15 years. This way a lot of economy minded folks wouldn't hesitate to get their end of the line cars upgraded.

- Additionally, for cars with well functioning engines, they can have a less priced conversion to plug-in hybrid. This would perhaps involve eliminating the transmission and installing newer alternator connecting the engine to an electric controller unit, a smaller battery for propulsion (accommodated smartly under the front seats or in the trunk) and motors for driving the wheels.

[ashpalio]

Originally Posted by GTO

. Old cars like my Jeep are anyway fun toys, used at the max of once a week.

Low usage will throw a spanner to the battery life plus increase electricity cost per km. Let me explain:

Higher Electricity Consumption:
Li-ion batteries have a self-discharge behavior that drains the battery slowly, on my e2o it is about 4 Km for about 12-15 hours of idle time.

Shorter Battery Life:
One gets the best life out of the Li-ion battery when cycled frequently. Example- drain 80% to 20% then charge back to 80-90%. So if you use the car every day, the battery will give more km than a car with low usage during the entire usable battery life.

Make EV a daily driver and your wallet, your body (no powertrain vibrations or noise), the Country (no oil imports), the Planet (less pollution) - all are happy.

[Shresth_EV]

Originally Posted by TusharK

The company has not announced the exact price of the EV conversion kits for the Dzire, but it is said to cost around Rs. 5-6 lakh. Bookings are expected to open soon, and customers will be able to order the kits by paying a token amount of Rs. 25,000.

According to the company, these are plug and play kits and don't require any modifications. That said, the internal combustion engine has to be removed to install these kits.
Link to Team-BHP News

One question still lingering with me, which I didn’t see addressed in the thread, is whether the ₹5-6L cost of the kit include the money that the buyer gets back from selling engine, fuel tank, and assorted assemblies or not.

In simpler words, is the cost of conversion after factoring the selling price of engine and fuel tank or without it.

If it is before factoring the selling price, the. I guess the net cost of conversion would be closer to ₹4-4.5L instead of ₹5-6L as mentioned in the post.

How much do working engines sell for? Busted ones would go by scrap metal rates, but what about working ones? Who buys them? (if at all anyone does, that is)

[mvadg]

https://www.engadget.com/2008-05-08-...-your-wal.html

I would rather have something like this (you get to keep your ICE and get to drive short distances on battery):

[frewper]

Originally Posted by RedViper

I have a 15-year-old Santro Xing that has clocked 175000 KMs. When such conversions are available for Santro, I might consider this. This might just work well for office commute and city runabouts. I also have a Creta CRDi for those road trips.

Perfect situation for you. Once you get the Santro converted all you will have to worry about is suspension parts and tyres and wiper blades.

Originally Posted by rpmmachine

Very good initiative and wish them all the success but 5 lakhs is too much for someone to invest in this.
One can run approx 1Lakh KM more on Diesel ( less on petrol) itself with this amount of money and no need to charge for 6-7 hours. Anyways it is all about preference and choice.

Any inputs on how the RC will be altered/updated and will the vehicle be allotted a Green plate or what needs to be done further to change all this?

They can always tie-up with Maruti or other companies and the result will be low-cost EV for Mass market.

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

Agree, 5lakhs is pretty steep for an untested retrofit. But with petrol at Rs105+ in most of the country, (let’s assume 100), you get 5000 liters of petrol for 5L. That means you can drive 60000km at 12kmpl. That’s it. Add to that whatever you’ll spend on maintenance. The cost of petrol has really changed the cost calculations, man. Heavy users can recover the cost in a couple of years.

Well put. Not to forget that the cost of fuel is rising and the govt has confirmed that they aren't going to do anything to reduce the price and only look for alternatives. It may be 5K liters of fuel at this price but may end up with only 4k liters at the end of 5 years.

Originally Posted by warrioraks

If these guys can do it for 5 lac's, is there a reason for Maruti not to have Dzire EV in their portfolio.

As far as Maruti is concerned, I think they had shelved the electric Wagon R itself. (Or has it changed ?). We cant really comment that this company is wrong because Maruti is not doing it. Its just like saying Tesla is doing things wrong because the largest car maker GM is not doing it. (in 2010)

Originally Posted by warrioraks

Coming to this company (Northway) - I am lost on what’s the target customer base here. The kit is too expensive. My guess is, they need to sell it at a fraction of the advertised cost to get any decent numbers. Their main competition is the CNG conversion kits available in the after-market which sells for less than a lac typically.

Not sure if this is a viable business in the current scenario.

I think the company is perfectly timed and they kit seem well pet together too. Ever since stuntfreak came up with the Maruti Dzire conversion thread I have been hoping that he will come up with some conversion kit with service provided.

As far as the customer base goes I think he is very smart with the two options that he has provided.

Dzire -- Thousands of taxi operators in the city of Pune who use a Dzire. The life of a petrol car in the taxi lines is around 5-6 years where they run it for at-least 6L kms. They typically do 200-300kms in the city in a day. Do note:
After 6 years, Most will have one engine job done in this time. Imagine giving that car a new lease of life after this. Voila car with expense of 1-1.5 per km with no regular servicing cost other than suspension and wiper blades.

ACE -- A very potent CV for small and odd jobs. Go to any industrial area and you will see 100 of these available for hire. They are very important within the industrial area because they help get small job works done across the industries. Wanna transport a 100kg load 5 kms away, no problem, make a call, guy will be at your gate in 5 mins flat, loaded and delivered in less than 30 mins, including paperwork handled by the driver. All billing at the end of month for convenience. Cost you ask? 200 bucks or less. Even Uber cannot provide this kind of service.

The ACE driver will happily drive the ace for 15 years of more without replacing it. Imagine what he can do if he can get a ACE EV with 300 kms range and not have to worry about diesel prices. He will happily ask for an ACE EV if it was available.

CNG kits:

As far as CNG kits are concerned I can share my personal experience. I got mine converted in the mid of 2019. So less than 2 years of usage and 15kms.
My car Sx4 used to give me 9 Km/litre in the city. Thats Rs. 9 per km when fuel was at 80 bucks and would have been 12 bucks today at Rs. 105 a litre.

I currently pay around Rs. 4.6 / km (CNG + Petrol combined) City driving

Here are the problems that I face.

1. Tank Range is only 160 in the city of pune. Its irritating. Every fourth day I have to be at the pump.
2. The CNG is never on the way to your house or office, you always have to take a detour.
3. CNG pump in the city always have a queue.
4. I always go to the pump after 9 so that there is no queue.
5. Ok this is me nitpcking but I hate it. The pump attendant never opens the hood for you. You have to get down and open it for him. I hate doing it.
6. Whenever I am travelling out of the city I never get CNG. So no cost benefits there.


Moreover I lost the boot space which when doing airport runs to Mumbai is irritating. Now I borrow a car for that.

Now given all the issues that I have faced, the one thing that I would have done is got an electric conversion done than CNG. Only I would have asked for range of 350 kms realistic range. Hence I dont have to worry about aiport runs between Pune and Mumbai. And going by the Dzire convrtion thread, It is possible.
Moreover I would have to never visit fuel pump for city driving ever again.

One thing that I will not be able to do is my fav GOA trips in the electric car. But thats just once a year or twice max. Also max 4 day affair for me. Guess I can just rent then.

I think stuntfreak has come up with a really good plan and has very good technical expertise to offer.
As a fellow BHPian wishing him all the success in the world.

[warrioraks]

Originally Posted by frewper

As far as Maruti is concerned, I think they had shelved the electric Wagon R itself. (Or has it changed ?). We cant really comment that this company is wrong because Maruti is not doing it. Its just like saying Tesla is doing things wrong because the largest car maker GM is not doing it. (in 2010)

I think you have misread my statement. The quoted part of my post was actually aimed towards Maruti and not this company. To clarify - If a third party can do this for Maruti’s car, then MSIL should wake up and add Dzire (or WagonR) EV to their portfolio.

Originally Posted by frewper

Imagine giving that car a new lease of life after this. Voila car with expense of 1-1.5 per km with no regular servicing cost other than suspension and wiper blades.

I guess you forgot the gearbox, considering this kit retains the transmission
On a serious note, I am not convinced of sales volumes at current cost of 5-6 lacs. This is too high for a car that cost ~8 lacs. We can agree to disagree and anyways this is just an opinion and can be revisited one year down the line once we have cold hard facts.

Originally Posted by frewper

CNG kits:

I agree with your observations but now you have shifted the vantage point from a cab operator to personal use. This was not the premise of your calculations above where you tried to prove economic viability of this kit.
Also I strongly feel majority of cab guys will have an altogether different tolerance to the pains you highlighted as compared to you or me. Mainly because they can save way more because of high usage.
In my view, most cab guys would prefer a CNG kit over this EV conversion kit because of significantly low upfront cost of CNG kits.

Originally Posted by frewper

I think stuntfreak has come up with a really good plan and has very good technical expertise to offer.
As a fellow BHPian wishing him all the success in the world.

This company surely has put in a lot of effort to get this done. No way an easy job. What they have achieved is truly amazing and that actually made me point out that these guys did what Maruti should have done in the first place. This coming from a Bhpian makes me root for them even more and I hope this turns out to be a grand success.

[whitecloud]

Besides being an expensive proposition ,one needs to check the following for legal ramifications later on :
1) Is the kit certified by the approved central govt agency /ARAI .
2) Is this type of retro fitting allowed under Central motor vehicle rules and thereafter the respective state governments have notified /approved the amendments in fuel category of the Registration cerificate of the vehicle .
3) Will insurance cover the damage in case of any accident .
Probably ,the answers to all the above questions is NO .Hence ,time to be patient and cautious.
Nevertheless ,the option of retrofitting of ICE engined vehicles to electrical powered engine is a step in right direction to provide cheaper alternative to expensive electrical vehicles.

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by GTO

Zero pollution, lesser maintenance, smooth drive (the vibrations of my Jeep can rearrange your teeth!), faster acceleration and hopefully superior reliability once the technology matures.

Its the above and the fact that you will be able to off road with that old Jeep of yours once again and not have to worry about the engine falling apart while you're at it. Torque available from the word go, which is what you need off the beaten track.

[GautamJ]

To me this concept does not really click much, reasons :-

• 5 lakhs is a huge amount on the first hand to be invested, by the time one recovers the cost by saving on fuel, battery replacement might be due.

• Taking 8-10 hours to charge plus 250 kilometers, which too needs to be tested for real-world outcome, isn't meant of high driving owners.

• For one who wants to keep car for long drivetrain is not the only part of the car which will need attention (example; rust issues on body). Too much hassle which may not be worth it?

But a talk with an owner who is emotionally attached to the car, wants to keep the car running for long and save it from NGT rules then above list is nullified. It is just that it's not for me, period.