[Shresth_EV]

Originally Posted by ashutoshb

ACI predicts the pricing to be below 10 lakhs.

If that happens, suddenly a competent EV becomes more accessible to many.

Going by the teaser, this Tigor is going to match the Nexon EV's performance, if not exceed it.

Their analysis seems way too off.

The existing Tigor EV (let’s call it 72V tigor for now) already has a 21.5kWh battery for 213km range. Even assuming linear range scaling, to get to the 250km range they suggest, at least 25-26kWh battery capacity is needed.

That’s about 4.5kWh more capacity which at conservative battery prices of $150/kWh today, come to ₹50K extra. Then of course you have the motor. Add another 50K for better motor.

That alone puts you ₹1L above 72V tigor’s price of ₹10.6L to ₹11.6L. We haven’t even addressed the others yet, such as 25kW DC charging ability — a minimum for 1h charging, and various other tech/convenience features.

I’m not too sure what spaghetti math can allow Tata to ADD features and range, but SUBTRACT cost. It’s just too optimistic (or poorly done calculations) on ACI’s part.

PS : now that I did an actual comparison on ACI’s own comparison tool for myself, I realise how poor value the tigor EV is. Or on flipside, how much more features you get on even base trim Nexon EV.

You literally go from 40bhp to 127bhp, almost 3x power, more than 2x torque and 100km more range on MIDC cycle (arai range)

[kartikthum]

You are right, in fact a few months back I was doing this comparison between Tigor EV & Nexon EV, and I was surprised as to how they could sell Tigor EV at that price. But then I realized (an assumption, of course) that Tata has overpriced the old Tigor EV & XPres-T for a reason - keeping in mind their biggest probable 'customer'. Dealing with the government agencies is never easy, if you want to be straight ;-)

Again, this is just an assumption. No claims here. Anyway, if indeed the new Tigor EV is priced low at 10L, this theory would make sense.

[DarthVeda]

Originally Posted by scenario7

As far as I know, at least here in Bengaluru, those who own EVs (Nexon/Kona/ZS), for them it is a secondary car. Their primary car/cars are mainly premium ICE cars like BMWs, Harriers, Innovas and obviously White Fortuners The Nexon EV is used for minimal city commute.

Regards

As an Nexon Owner, I wish what you said was true but then I realize you are just hypothesizing on it. Anyone who owns Premium ICE car will not go in normal EV car, they will go and buy a Merc/Jaguar EV car. As you are alluding about their status in society and bla bla. Why will they degrade themselves?

Coming to ground reality, The Nexon EV is 3L above the top end diesel, Why won't you spend 3L up front when you can realize the gains over many years to come.
BTW, I have met several owners and for none of them this is NOT a spare car.

[Raghuwire]

Originally Posted by scenario7

As far as I know, at least here in Bengaluru, those who own EVs (Nexon/Kona/ZS), for them it is a secondary car. Their primary car/cars are mainly premium ICE cars like BMWs, Harriers, Innovas and obviously White Fortuners The Nexon EV is used for minimal city commute. Considering the price differential between the Nexon EV and Tigor EV to be around 1 to 2 Lakhs, I think someone belonging to this strata of society (as mentioned above) will spend the extra 2 Lakhs in a much more premium Nexon EV rather than a Tigor EV.

What I have also noticed is that EVs are becoming more and more of a status symbol, as a way to tell the world that 'I care for the environment'.

The other parts of your post, I agree, but the quoted part is fallacious generalization. My brother in law has bought a Nexon EV as his primary ride. The fallback being a TVS Jupiter. Couple of my MBA batchmates have booked Nexon EV as their primary cars. So status symbol or not, it surely is not a secondary car for many of them.

[sri_tesla]

In the teaser video, Tigor EV is able to keep up with the Nexon EV in terms of speed. For that to be true, the Tigor EV needs to have a similar capacity battery along with the motor.

My guesstimates of Tata EV lineup for 2021/22:

1. Tigor EV with Ziptron: 30 kWh battery at Rs 12 lakhs.

• Altroz EV with 30 kWh battery at Rs 12 to 13 lakhs. If the earlier rumors are true, then the 40 kWh battery variant also will be released at Rs 15 lakhs.

• Nexon EV with 30 kWh battery at Rs 14 lakhs (existing one). Nexon EV with 40 kWh battery at Rs 17 lakhs or more.

• HBX EV may not be released any time sooner and will only come in 2023.

If Tata wants to be aggressive, they may release the new Tigor EV at Rs 10 to 11 lakhs. EV batteries are not as costly as people assume them to be, especially LFP batteries, With decent volumes, the prices can be much lower. Also, EVs have much lower GST (5%) compared to ICEs.

[ashutoshb]

OD estimates a sub 10 lakh price too.

Maybe the base, no frills variant will start from there.

[scenario7]

Originally Posted by DarthVeda

As an Nexon Owner, I wish what you said was true but then I realize you are just hypothesizing on it.

Yes Sir. I completely agree that I am hypothesizing here. The views that I expressed are based on conversations with relatives and friends for whom the Nexon EV that they own, is nothing but a status symbol and a car for minimal city commute. This does not imply that there is nobody out there, using a Nexon EV as a primary car.

Also, I do not understand what is wrong in hypothesizing. So many opinions on this thread like estimating the price, sales cannibalisation etc are hypothesis as well, based on limited knowledge. In fact, I began my post with as far as I know, which clearly indicates I have limited knowledge about what follows afterwards. Please let me know if I am wrong here.

Originally Posted by DarthVeda

Anyone who owns Premium ICE car will not go in normal EV car, they will go and buy a Merc/Jaguar EV car. As you are alluding about their status in society and bla bla. Why will they degrade themselves?

Merc EQC and Jaguar I pace are exorbitantly priced at over 1 crore, which is a huge price to ask even from somebody from a well to do family. When talking about status, I am talking from a technology standpoint that is having access to a technology, which not many people have access to. For a country like ours, where EV technology is still in it's nascency, an EV sure is a status symbol (irrespective of brand), especially for those whom a car is just a tool to move from place A to place B.

Originally Posted by DarthVeda

Coming to ground reality, The Nexon EV is 3L above the top end diesel, Why won't you spend 3L up front when you can realize the gains over many years to come. BTW, I have met several owners and for none of them this is NOT a spare car.

That's exactly what I said sir. Nexon EV is a great car. But, if TATA prices the Tigor EV just 2 lakhs below the Nexon EV why would someone buy the Tigor EV? Wouldn't they settle for a top trim Nexon Diesel, as long as they strictly want an EV, which is also a cab . Am I missing something? Please let me know.

You also said Sir, that you own a Nexon EV. Would like you to clarify whether it is ICE or EV. If it is the latter, would request you to share your brief ownership experience in terms of real life range, service intervals (provided it has to be serviced at all), any niggles you faced, charging infrastructure etc. I also noticed you are from namma Bengaluru. Would also like you to share whether going for long trips to places like Mysuru, Kodagu, Gokarna etc are feasible with the Nexon EV.

Originally Posted by Raghuwire

The other parts of your post, I agree, but the quoted part is fallacious generalization. My brother in law has bought a Nexon EV as his primary ride. The fallback being a TVS Jupiter. Couple of my MBA batchmates have booked Nexon EV as their primary cars. So status symbol or not, it surely is not a secondary car for many of them.

As I already said, I began my post with As far as I know, so my view was based on my personal experiences, which may be different from yours. Generalisation was never my intent, but my apologies if that's how it was perceived.

I think it is great that people have started trusting EVs and are purchasing them as their primary vehicles. I was unaware of this development. Thank you Sir, for enlightening me.

BHPian Raghuwire Sir, would also like you to shed light on how your friends/relatives zeroed in, on the Nexon EV. Were they considering a pure EV only, and Nexon EV was the best option available? Or were they considering the Nexon, that is when they came across the Nexon EV and decided on purchasing it? Or is it something completely different? Also are they confident in making long trips to places 200 - 300 km away? Would love to know your opinion.

Regards

[Raghuwire]

Originally Posted by scenario7

BHPian Raghuwire Sir, would also like you to shed light on how your friends/relatives zeroed in, on the Nexon EV. Were they considering a pure EV only, and Nexon EV was the best option available? Or were they considering the Nexon, that is when they came across the Nexon EV and decided on purchasing it? Or is it something completely different? Also are they confident in making long trips to places 200 - 300 km away? Would love to know your opinion.
Regards

Hi Scenario7, sorry if I appeared rude, was never the intention.

1. My brother in law in Goa- bought Nexon EV because every trip he has done in last decade was 100km or less. All the relatives, native everything is within 100kms.
2. My friend in Bangalore - sent just a simple mail- which EV to buy, no discussion about ICE. Not having range anxiety I guess!
3. I myself had booked a Nexon EV but switched to a Harrier because I would have to move to a rented apartment in Bangalore because of work location, and charging infra at home would be the problem and not the range.
4. Waiting to book Altroz EV or Tigor EV for dad, as he does not do any long trips anymore. 200kms real world range is enough.
5. A friend is buying Nexon EV because his daily commute is around 100kms in a swift petrol. He would save 600rs easily everyday with current prices. He was talking about low arange, but when he realised that in last 5 years other than one 500km trip, he had not done any long trips, he got convinced.

Everyone has range anxiety thinking how to do long trips, but when you see the requirement many don't do long trips frequently, and don't need the extra range. Plus EV is perfect for the second car at home for city usage(in case both husband and wife working n need a car)

I think there are a lot of customer profiles and many of them don't do long distance or touring trips. Untill I bought a Harrier I had not done any long trips for last 5 years, and if nit for corona, may not have used it for long trips too, as I have a small kid to manage. Also when I considered the EV, I knew that there is nothing interesting around Bangalore which I want to do trips to. In my last trip I went to North East, hired a swift and drove around 3 states there. Soo, each of us have different requirements. But I guess many buy it as status symbol too, like you pointed out. Thanks!

[f1fan5]

Tigor EV launch live stream at 11AM, 18th August.

https://youtu.be/8DROUBxrT6o

[f1fan5]

In this video SoC is about 50% and it shows an estimated range remaining of 161km. So, 161x2=322km. I would be happy even if it is about 300km.

https://youtu.be/VmDzgMaLmUM

[SKC-auto]

Originally Posted by f1fan5

In this video SoC is about 50% and it shows an estimated range remaining of 161km. So, 161x2=322km. I would be happy even if it is about 300km.

https://Youtu.be/VmDzgMaLmUM

So it gets the same battery as Nexon, ARAI rated range of 322km(312km for Nexon), 10km more because of lighter weight, more aerodynamic than Nexon.

[f1fan5]

Originally Posted by SKC-auto

So it gets the same battery as Nexon, ARAI rated range of 322km(312km for Nexon), 10km more because of lighter weight, more aerodynamic than Nexon.

But that's the indicated range and not the ARAI range?

[Shresth_EV]

Originally Posted by f1fan5

But that's the indicated range and not the ARAI range?

Yeah, I guess the ARAI to be even higher. Would be a wonder if they can breach 350km this time.

Shouldn’t be too hard. If they want to chase same performance as Nexon EV (9.9s 0-100 and 120kmph max) they can make do with lower power motor (Nexon has 95kW/125HP) so I guess even 75kW/100HP will be enough. Lower power motor = more range.

Then again, it’s also lighter and more aerodynamic as @SKC-Auto said.

MID is based on real time power consumption. You’re correct. MID value is independent of ARAI value.

[DarthVeda]

Originally Posted by scenario7

You also said Sir, that you own a Nexon EV. Would like you to clarify whether it is ICE or EV. If it is the latter, would request you to share your brief ownership experience in terms of real life range, service intervals (provided it has to be serviced at all), any niggles you faced, charging infrastructure etc. I also noticed you are from namma Bengaluru. Would also like you to share whether going for long trips to places like Mysuru, Kodagu, Gokarna etc are feasible with the Nexon EV.

Nexon EV is EV, it's that simple
The thing about efficiency is that it is not just about the car, but also about the driver, the terrain, and traffic which all influences, this is applicable to ICE vehicles also but nobody looks at it with the microscope like they do for EV because you know there is a fuel station nearby and you are least bothered by efficiency.
In my one year, I am getting 210 to 230km in City, I stay in a hilly area, so the efficiency is kinda less. When I did my office run, the area beyond BTM layout towards ORR is relatively flat and it returned great efficiency there. I don't have any range anxiety as such, as I type this, my SOC is 13% left with predicted range of 30KM.

I have done few trips to Mysuru via Melukote, and reached Mysuru with no worries, I still had 20% left and had crossed 200km on trip meter. With the pandemic, trips have been one day affair, and not really long.
I am still waiting for a charging station either from Zeon or Tata to come up near Hassan or one near Madikeri, so that I can go on a trip to Mangaluru or Udupi. That's still pending.

I have already placed order for NexCruise, a 3rd party cruise control attachment for the Nexon, This should make long drives less painful on the foot and also yield greater efficiency and range. Till then the Car is not going anywhere outside the city. That's the unfortunate reality but I am not complaining, with the current scenario, it is better to stay put at home.

[SKC-auto]

Originally Posted by f1fan5

But that's the indicated range and not the ARAI range?

Agreed, but this is a marketing material, Tata wants us to see the battery percentage and range, I could be wrong as well.

Originally Posted by DarthVeda

I have already placed order for NexCruise, a 3rd party cruise control attachment for the Nexon.

Is there no effect to your warranty? Any idea how it was implemented? What changes you have to make to the car?