[RahulNagaraj]

The Indiana Department of Transport (INDOT) has announced its plans to develop a new wireless charging system for EVs.

According to a media report, the authorities will conduct a pilot program wherein the wireless charging technology will be embedded onto the pavement, allowing EVs to either charge on the go or while being parked.



While there have been earlier reports of studies on this kind of charging infrastructure, this is the first time a US department of transport has given the go-ahead for the project.

The wireless charging project is said to be developed by INDOT and Purdue University, in association with a German company called Magment - a manufacturer of magnetic cement. The pilot program itself is said to be split into three phases, which includes a lot of testing, analysis and data crunching in the first two phases.

Phase three is when the technology will be implemented on public roads. As per the program, initially, a quarter-mile stretch will be fitted with the wireless charging system, although the exact location of the site is yet to be confirmed.

Post phase three and all the testing, the technology will have its first real rollout on a highway somewhere in the state. Having said that, reports do suggest that the exact timeline for this is yet unknown.

The state will install wireless charging pads on both the highways, as well as car parking areas. These charging pads will be installed by Magment. Also, the electric cars wanting to use this technology will have to install an under-car charging coil.

Reports also suggest that INDOT is working with Magment's panels to test them specifically for heavy trucks, at 200 kW and above fast charging.

Source: TheDrive

Link to Team-BHP news

[ashking101]

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[mohanphadnis]

I remember listening about wireless charging for Taxis at Oslo Airport.
There was some pilot project in Norway

https://techxplore.com/news/2020-06-...uar-taxis.html

I also heard about his project on Fully Charged podcast.

The technology is compelling and I think it really lends itself to buses and public transport.

[RedTerrano]

All this is definitely exciting. Especially the possibility where one could theoretically charge their car on the go. However, it did raise some concerns in my mind.

If this tech catches on, in a few decades we can see it adapted on a massive scale. Numerous countries, including ours, have banned manufacturing of petrol/diesel fuelled vehicles from a specified future date. So the number of EVs is guaranteed to spike.

This would obviously lead to more and more demand for wireless charging. The question to ponder upon : Will it affect earths magnetic field? From aeroplanes to birds to grounded humans to migratory animals. All of us depend on this field being right.

For those who might find this silly, paranoid or even stupid, let me quote from this Stanford research paper on tidal wave power generation. (emphasis mine)

However, the story will be totally different if we are going to consume tidal energy in any form.
As soon as we are tapping the tidal energy, the slowdown process will be accelerated. If we were taking the tidal energy just to supplement 1% of the world energy consumption, the self rotation of the Earth would be literally stopped in about 1000 years

Who is John Galt. Apparently, it's us.

https://cs.stanford.edu/people/zjl/pdf/tide0.pdf

[LeoRBK]

If this tech catches on, in a few decades we can see it adapted on a massive scale. Numerous countries, including ours, have banned manufacturing of petrol/diesel fuelled vehicles from a specified future date. So the number of EVs is guaranteed to spike

Can I just say, I have not found any evidence of India banning the manufacture of petrol/diesel vehicles. If you can, please add a reference.

[Sentinel17]

Kudos to them for finding out a brilliant method to charge EV’s.This is that stuff you see in movies and cartoons depicting the future.But again will this be beneficial here in India,considering that pavements are occupied by pedestrians and shops majority of the time.And there are also not a lot of pavements here.Welp![Also what would happen if someone peed on it,considering that we have a lot of stray animals and sometimes disgusting humans who practice it as a ritual]

[kosjam]

Originally Posted by RahulNagaraj

The Indiana Department of Transport (INDOT) has announced its plans to develop a new wireless charging system for EVs.

According to a media report, the authorities will conduct a pilot program wherein the wireless charging technology will be embedded onto the pavement, allowing EVs to either charge on the go or while being parked.

I have a different take on the wireless charging scenario.
I had read a report about mobile phone wireless charging in which they had mentioned that as much as 30% of the energy consumed is wasted as heat and induction losses, and this is when the phone is placed right on top of the charging pad.

Imagine the losses when there is an air gap involved (ground clearance of the vehicle) and the fact that there have to be thicker insulation materials coming between the inductive coils of the vehicle.

While more tedious, the charging cable (for both the mobile phone as well as the EV) would be the most efficient way to transfer energy.

The whole wastefulness of 30% loss of energy on a global scale sounds scary.

[Everlearner]

Originally Posted by RedTerrano

This would obviously lead to more and more demand for wireless charging. The question to ponder upon : Will it affect earths magnetic field? From aeroplanes to birds to grounded humans to migratory animals. All of us depend on this field being right.

For those who might find this silly, paranoid or even stupid, let me quote from this Stanford research paper on tidal wave power generation. (emphasis mine)

Who is John Galt. Apparently, it's us.
https://cs.stanford.edu/people/zjl/pdf/tide0.pdf

Thanks for the link. Very interesting read.

[ZenMaster]

All this sounds cool, but wireless charging is quite inefficient unless this is some revolutionary new tech.
With all the talk about Sustainability and blah blah blah (enter random environmental buzzwords), this seems quite counterintuitive. Everyone is rushing to make everything electric/wireless/smart because its trendy now and to make hay while sun shines without thinking about how much extra actual Energy is being used/wasted unnecessarily.

I like EVs, but we must also be as sensible as we are intelligent with how we use energy. Everything doesn't need to wireless or smart or have AI.

The title saying "wireless charging for EVs could soon become reality" is a bit misleading. I don't see this going beyond pilot stage. This is probably just a demo to get more funding from some companies.

[Aravind_M92]

In this period of 'subscriptions' for everything instead of 'owning', creates a lot of new possibilities!
Imagine, you buy an EV on subscription. Then charging, OTA updates, and maintenance all will be some sort of bundled subscription package.
Now coming to the embedded roads which need to have constant Electricity to keep the charging coils active! Now this opens us new chance for Road authorities to collect some sort of subscription package. I do understand tolls are a similar affair. But imagine paying subscription fees to use the neighborhood road!

Mods, can we have a thread to have a poll on which future mobility methods would be favoured more
- Modifying Current ICEs to utilise alternative fuels
- Electric all the way
- Hydrogen Fuel Cells
- Any other source

I favour alternate fuel or hydrogen fuel cell

[LeoRBK]

Originally Posted by Aravind_M92

In this period of 'subscriptions' for everything instead of 'owning', creates a lot of new possibilities!
Imagine, you buy an EV on subscription. Then charging, OTA updates, and maintenance all will be some sort of bundled subscription package.
Now coming to the embedded roads which need to have constant Electricity to keep the charging coils active! Now this opens us new chance for Road authorities to collect some sort of subscription package. I do understand tolls are a similar affair. But imagine paying subscription fees to use the neighborhood road!

Mods, can we have a thread to have a poll on which future mobility methods would be favoured more
- Modifying Current ICEs to utilise alternative fuels
- Electric all the way
- Hydrogen Fuel Cells
- Any other source

I favour alternate fuel or hydrogen fuel cell

I do not think such a poll is meaningful exercise.
The end goal is to reduce carbon emissions and there are several technologies to that end. I think we need a future with several technologies, for example EVs for passenger cars, Hydrogen fuel cell for airplanes, a mix of electric and hydrogen in commercial vehicles.
So there is no point in determining the favourite.
On your view regarding subscription,
we need not view every new technology experiment as a monetization exercise. I personally cannot see wireless charging as a feasible technology, but then I have limited expertise and cannot rule out someone else having better ideas. I am glad universities are taking a good look at the technology and it may not work out in end. If it does somebody will work out ways productize it and maybe add tolls for driving on roads with embedded chargers. That is just the nature of things.

I read somewhere that pantographs were being reconsidered for charging commercial vehicles. What a great idea!! It has been there for decades and yet still makes itself useful.

[RedTerrano]

Originally Posted by LeoRBK

Can I just say, I have not found any evidence of India banning the manufacture of petrol/diesel vehicles. If you can, please add a reference.

All petrol and diesel vehicles are supposed to be banned from 2030 in India, as per niti Aayog’s recommendations.

https://trak.in/tags/business/2020/1...l-follow-next/

[LeoRBK]

Originally Posted by RedTerrano

All petrol and diesel vehicles are supposed to be banned from 2030 in India, as per niti Aayog’s recommendations.

https://trak.in/tags/business/2020/1...l-follow-next/

Thank you.
Exactly my point. The recommendation were made a while back but a ban has not been put in place. This is exactly what I highlighted before. Unless government commits the changes will not start happening at the pace we all like.

[Shresth_EV]

Most people covered the major flaws like potential magnetic risks, heating and inefficiency but I’d like to mention two more :

1. Materials and durability :
Metals don’t mix well with magnetic field. Google tells me, that asphalt isn’t just an insulator of heat but also interferes with magnetics. The coils in the car cannot be placed inside the battery since the enclosure of pack is metallic. Most cars also have a metallic undercarriage (EV or not)

The reason why phones with wireless charging have plastic/glass back nowadays is the aluminium/steel structure of phones interfering with magnetic flux which is responsible for energy transfer between coil in phone and coil in charger pad. Premium phones use glass. Cheap ones use plastic. Glass is a no-no on the undercarriage.

One cannot just put the coils on outside of the undercarriage and without covering it aptly — I’m pretty sure an exposed coil will refuse to work after crossing the first water puddle in mumbai rains or have the copper coil turned into a copper plate after scraping the underside on the gazillion speedbreakers (see : suspension breakers) which we have here.

You’d need to use polycarbonates/plastics to allow flux through without interference. How durable is a plastic cover over an exposed copper coil? I’m not sure, but doesn’t sound a lot to me.

2. The sheer precision to line up coils perfectly:
It’s not the most convenient of things, considering most modern phones will still refuse to charge if you miss the intended position even by 1mm.

Quite frustrating to realise you haven’t been charging despite going over road with wireless charging, just cause you were driving with a little deviation from middle of the lane and the coils didn’t line up perfectly.

These charging disasters are very common — putting the phone to charge on the pad and coming back, only to realise it wasn’t lined correctly and didn’t charge at all.

Originally Posted by RedTerrano

All this is definitely exciting. Especially the possibility where one could theoretically charge their car on the go. However, it did raise some concerns in my mind.

If this tech catches on, in a few decades we can see it adapted on a massive scale. Numerous countries, including ours, have banned manufacturing of petrol/diesel fuelled vehicles from a specified future date. So the number of EVs is guaranteed to spike.

This would obviously lead to more and more demand for wireless charging. The question to ponder upon : Will it affect earths magnetic field? From aeroplanes to birds to grounded humans to migratory animals. All of us depend on this field being right.

For those who might find this silly, paranoid or even stupid, let me quote from this Stanford research paper on tidal wave power generation. (emphasis mine)
Who is John Galt. Apparently, it's us.

https://cs.stanford.edu/people/zjl/pdf/tide0.pdf

Right, the magnetic field needs to be much more stronger than that in our phone chargers — the charging stops as soon as one lifts the phone even 1mm above charger. The flux is too weak.

To transfer power between charger pad buried under asphalt, and a car itself with at least 150mm clearance will need far stronger magnetic fields.

You not only need stronger field for clearing that gap, but also because of you want more power to be delivered, you’ll automatically need to increase the turns in coils which also increases field as a consequence of delivering more power. It would no doubt be a magnetic mess.

Originally Posted by kosjam

I have a different take on the wireless charging scenario.
I had read a report about mobile phone wireless charging in which they had mentioned that as much as 30% of the energy consumed is wasted as heat and induction losses, and this is when the phone is placed right on top of the charging pad.

Imagine the losses when there is an air gap involved (ground clearance of the vehicle) and the fact that there have to be thicker insulation materials coming between the inductive coils of the vehicle.

While more tedious, the charging cable (for both the mobile phone as well as the EV) would be the most efficient way to transfer energy.

The whole wastefulness of 30% loss of energy on a global scale sounds scary.

That’s absolutely correct. Apple recommended using their 20W adaptor with 15W MagSafe chargers for this very reason. (I was confused at time of purchase because MagSafe doesn’t come with adaptor in box due to which I did further research into this — the adaptor connected to charging pad must be 20W — despite the phone actually getting only 15W from the pad)

To charge an EV like model 3 at 100kW, you’d actually be drawing much more from supply — close to 140kW. The whole point why EVs are cleaner despite the source of electricity, is their high efficiency. However if you waste so much energy in heat, it practically becomes less efficient and more polluting since you need to produce more electricity to charge same vehicle.

In fact, I reckon the losses to be even higher for EV charging. It won’t be just 30% for an EV charger since heating increases with square of current. A 3kW Nexon EV charger uses 15A. A 100kW DC FC at 400V uses close to 250A.

Tesla already uses liquid cooled charging cables to allow for that juicy 250kW charging. It’s also needed for future use with Tesla Semi which will need much more than 250kW charging.

There’s no way these coils can be buried in ground (insulating nature) without proper cooling.

Originally Posted by Sentinel17

Kudos to them for finding out a brilliant method to charge EV’s.This is that stuff you see in movies and cartoons depicting the future.But again will this be beneficial here in India,considering that pavements are occupied by pedestrians and shops majority of the time.And there are also not a lot of pavements here.Welp![Also what would happen if someone peed on it,considering that we have a lot of stray animals and sometimes disgusting humans who practice it as a ritual]

It’s cool tech, but the sheer infra development needed to support this wireless charging gizmo will die a death from dearth of funding, I get this feeling.

1. Dig roads existing roads up
2. Lay expensive copper wiring coils (hundreds of metres of copper wiring in a single coil and idk how many thousands of coils to cover a whole highway)
3. Manage for cooling of the coils.
4. Supply it with electricity all the time.
5. Inefficient, so you get only 70% of the electricity that reaches the coils (30% wasted as heat in coils) thus, charging cost increases.

Wireless charging is that same “flying car” tech which never really caught up that well, even in phones. People thought wireless charging to be like Wifi — have a device in your room “emitting energy” and your phone, laptop and other appliances grabbing energy and charging without connecting the wire.

It turned out to be BSNL broadband. Needs a wire anyway, slow as snail, and can’t do anything on phone while it’s charging or I’ll disturb the perfect position and it will stop charging.

The tech is too inefficient, too expensive, too finicky. All necessary ingredients for glorious recipe of bad user experiences.