[blackwasp]

As they don’t technically require licenses, tiny cars tend to be popular with migrant workers, who struggle to pay for driving lessons and other car-related costs. The elderly, too, find tiny cars attractive since, up until October of last year, people over 70 could not apply for a driving license in China. They’re also convenient for anybody who wants a car to pick up groceries or their kids from school: No tiny car is longer than 1.5 meters, and their speed tops out at between 40 and 56 kilometers an hour. They’re for the short trips of daily life, not for traveling from one side of the city to another.

Part of the reason why tiny cars are so popular is because there has not been an official decision on whether they need license plates. For regular cars, unfettered access to Beijing’s inner city — anywhere within the fifth ring road — is restricted to vehicles with Beijing plates. Licenses for gas cars are distributed through a special system so competitive that it has generated its own black market.

License-plate holders can collect up to $2,700 a year by renting them to those who want to drive in the city. In addition to government subsidies, getting around some of the more onerous aspects of the licensing system is one of the main selling points for standard electric cars.

In recent years, having noticed how popular tiny cars are, established players have started to enter the market. Last summer, SAIC, Wuling, and General Motors unveiled the Hongguang Mini, a tiny car with a starting price of $4,500. Since September, the Mini has outsold Tesla’s Model 3 sedan in China, and in November, 33,094 Hongguang Minis were sold, compared to 21,604 Tesla Model 3s. “Tesla is a small niche player,” says Li. “What Elon Musk did was redefine electric vehicles on macho, Silicon Valley– programmer terms.”

Source

[V.Narayan]

Thank you for this thread. It matches what I believe that electric cars will spawn a new generation of micro vehicles for two seats and utility runs. For City travel journeys most of the time, 50% to 90% varying with individual, we use one or two seats, run upto 25 kms and really don't need a speed beyond 60kmph. But most of us, me included, love to drive our 2-tonne , 200bhp SUV to pick up the groceries from, 3kms away. 2-seater EVs will fill that gap. The greater buy-in by the coming generations of the need for cleaner air will push in this direction. That's my assessment. Mind you beefy and fast cars will not go away as among other things they fulfill an ego need.

[ninjatalli]

Also on the other hand, GM's gem in China, the Wuling Hongguang Mini EV, a budget electric vehicle (EV) selling in China for a ridiculous price of $4,500 (~3 lakhs INR) is now outselling Tesla's more upmarket cars. The car has ABS, phone connected car features and what not. Apparently the key selling point is the tiny compactness and convenience. Also to promote EVs, the Chinese government offers license plates for free and they are guaranteed; a far shift from the months it takes to get a license plate for a petrol vehicle (source).

Key facts:
Options: Basic - $4.2k / Fully Loaded $5.6k
Power: 27hp (20 kW)
Advertised Range: 120 kms / 170 kms
Realistic Range: ~75kms / 120 kms
Luggage Space: ~26 cubic meter cargo space (with rear seats folded)
Top Speed: ~100km/h

Wuling Hongguang Mini EV overview

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Thank you for this thread. It matches what I believe that electric cars will spawn a new generation of micro vehicles for two seats and utility runs. For City travel journeys most of the time, 50% to 90% varying with individual, we use one or two seats, run upto 25 kms and really don't need a speed beyond 60kmph.
2-seater EVs will fill that gap.

I'll completely agree to this view with a caveat - the 2-seater EVs would be a mix of micro cars and scooters. I see a bigger market clearly setup for the likes of an 'aam aadmi Ather' as one of our members would put it. Just needs the first player to break-into the masses on that model.

[lonetraveller89]

But we still have a long way to go. Hope you all remember this little fella -

[padmrajravi]

This is where Tata and Mahindra missed out with their Nano and E20. Nano would have been the perfect candidate for an electric city run about. I hope Mahindra still has plans to relaunch E20 with decent range.

[pgsagar]

Originally Posted by padmrajravi

This is where Tata and Mahindra missed out with their Nano and E20. Nano would have been the perfect candidate for an electric city run about. I hope Mahindra still has plans to relaunch E20 with decent range.

Tiny Lego toy cars may work in China/Japan but not here in India. If we could, every Indian would be driving a Fortuner/Endeavour. We are that crazy about SUVs. It's better if Tata/Mahindra bury Nano and E20 and electrify their proper cars like Altroz/XUV300 etc.

[Jeroen]

Interesting, thanks for sharing. I wonder how popular these tiny cars might be in other countries.

Certainly as suggested, the idea of a bigger car for the sake of status might be a factor for some.

Here in Europe we have these tiny cars already, albeit with an IC engine. To some extend similar reasons; you don’t need a driver license. In many countries they are from a regulatory point of view similar to a moped. So they are also limited in maximum speed, usually about 45 km/h or there about. They are often used by elderly folks, who need transportation but can’t drive. They are not cheap at all. Think Euro 6-7000. That sort of money will also buy you a nice second hand small family saloon.

So the not needing a driver license and very cheap to run otherwise (cost little to insure, no roadtax and pretty good FE) is what attracts mostly.

The other thing: they are extremely unsafe! They might not be going that fast, but if you get hit by a car or a truck, this things just crumple. There is virtually no protection at all.

Jeroen

[padmrajravi]

Originally Posted by pgsagar

Tiny Lego toy cars may work in China/Japan but not here in India. If we could, every Indian would be driving a Fortuner/Endeavour. We are that crazy about SUVs. It's better if Tata/Mahindra bury Nano and E20 and electrify their proper cars like Altroz/XUV300 etc.

In my opinion, that has nothing to do with a country specific culture that is present only in India. Given an option , any one will want to travel in the bigger car. It is just that countries like Japan and China are at a different level of congestion and time saved by using a tiny car for city commute is significant enough for people to choose it ove bigger cars. Cities like Bengaluru are very close to reaching that level of congestion.

[SKC-auto]

Originally Posted by padmrajravi

In my opinion, that has nothing to do with a country specific culture that is present only in India. Given an option , any one will want to travel in the bigger car. It is just that countries like Japan and China are at a different level of congestion and time saved by using a tiny car for city commute is significant enough for people to choose it ove bigger cars. Cities like Bengaluru are very close to reaching that level of congestion.

I think it should be the opposite, Chinese and Japanese cities have a well developed public transport. If anything they need a car for weekend drives or for shopping. We Indians need smaller cars for our daily office drives as we cannot depend on our poor public transport.

This change is purely for the license reasons mentioned in the OP. It is difficult to get your ICE vehicle registered, solution seems to be buy a mini EV for your weekend shopping needs, may be they have a well developed car rental platforms to cater the yearly once or twice long drive needs.

[GTO]

We already have our own cheap EVs, the electric rickshaw! Sells well over 10,000 units each month (11,000 electric rickshaws are sold in India every month!), with numbers poised to grow further.



I don't think the cheap tiny electric cars will sell to personal buyers in India. Private owners in India have shown time & again that they want "value" in cars, not "cheap cars" (Nano, Datsun Go etc. were all flops). And those who cannot afford cars yet will happily continue on their motorcycle / scooter, or buy used 2-lakh rupee Marutis.

[francisvellara]

I doubt that this model would work in India. Electric or not, such a tiny car's intended audience will be the people who currently use motorcycles and want to 'upgrade' to a car. The Nano offered this very thing, and it failed. We tend to not buy something that is intended as a 'car that a poor person can afford'.

Regarding the advantage of small dimensions, I feel like most Indians would rather stick to the even more compact two-wheelers. One could argue that these micro-cars are better than two-wheelers in crash scenarios, but then the Nano put forth that argument too, in vain.

The group of people who would buy such a car because it does not require a license is very small, in my opinion. Most of them would rather buy a two wheeler instead.

However, I guess cars like these could be rented out, like how scooters are rented out. People visiting a new city could take one of these, and it would offer them the luxury of 4 seats without the bulkiness of a regular car. The 'status' (or lack of it) due to the car being cheap might not play as big a role there.

[pkk077]

One could argue how tiny is tiny but a Celerio sized EV with 100-120 Kms real world range for 5-8L on-road is what we city dwellers need. May be its a Chinese company which will get us that car first before Maruti could do it.

[y2ksrs]

The likes of Wuling Hongguang Mini EV would make an excellent second car in most upper middle class and above families in India. Cheap to buy and cheaper to run than a petrol car. Range anxiety would not be an issue since most runs would be within city limits.

[asbshyam]

Originally Posted by pgsagar

Tiny Lego toy cars may work in China/Japan but not here in India. If we could, every Indian would be driving a Fortuner/Endeavour. We are that crazy about SUVs. It's better if Tata/Mahindra bury Nano and E20 and electrify their proper cars like Altroz/XUV300 etc.

Agreed. But if these Micro EVs were to become mainstream, I'm sure we would see them scream their Induction motors out on our National Highways, packed to the brim with people and goods.

Steadily holding pace at 40KM/H.

[Gansan]

That three wheeled thing is nothing but a glorified autorickshaw. As for the small car, USD 4k is more or less the price of an Alto. We don't see higher middle and upper income groups buy it in any number as a second car. It is mainly bought by people who can spend only that much on a car, and they drive it everywhere within a 500-1000 km radius at least a couple of times a year. They will buy such an EV only if it can fulfill that need.