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18th January 2021, 12:11 | #31 | |
Distinguished - BHPian | Re: Tesla & other electric cars challenge the dominance of German luxury brands Quote:
They could be slow to adaption to electric cars because of the huge investment spent on R&D and manufacturing of the IC engine and they just can't neglect it all together and give importance to electric vehicles. Last edited by ajmat : 18th January 2021 at 13:14. Reason: typo | |
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18th January 2021, 13:27 | #32 | |
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| Re: Tesla & other electric cars challenge the dominance of German luxury brands Quote:
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18th January 2021, 14:51 | #33 | ||
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| Re: Tesla & other electric cars challenge the dominance of German luxury brands I'm not trying to sell anyone a Tesla. Neither am I a Tesla owner or fanboy trying to convert forum members to "the Musk Cult" . I also don't have anything against German luxury brands instead I actually love them. I also don't have the bank balance to own either Teslas or German Luxury cars. Quote:
I believe the discussion should be more about why Tesla is eating into the market share of the German Big 3 rather than establishing whether Tesla is a luxury brand or not. Quote:
I'm not an EV expert nor a Tesla shareholder and don't feel the responsibility to defend their brand name or coverup their mistakes and subpar production standards and fit and finish compared to German brands. I'm can see that you quite skilled at finding examples and proofs from around the world/internet about Tesla's goof ups and failures so it will be as easy to find out about their supercharging networks, their regular OTA updates, seamless ability to activate features etc, and also why many brands seems to be sticking a TV (sometimes multiple displays) onto their dashboards and forcing people to swipe 10 times on a screen to activate basic functions, after Tesla's started rolling out. | ||
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18th January 2021, 15:11 | #34 |
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| Re: Tesla & other electric cars challenge the dominance of German luxury brands
To be fair, most German makers have already announced that their current gen of ICEs would be the last they produce (correct me if I'm wrong), so they have almost fully pivoted to EVs. However offcourse, the fact remains that Tesla is a couple of years ahead and the Chinese are more or less ahead as well. But of all the traditional car makers, its the Germans who I'd bet as having a fighting chance. |
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18th January 2021, 17:29 | #35 | ||
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| Re: Tesla & other electric cars challenge the dominance of German luxury brands Quote:
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OTA updates is an interesting 'feature' of teslas. Instead of shipping a complete product, they can ship a half baked product and say to consumers they are giving them stuff for free. Is Mr. Musk still promising full self driving? Can you point out a proper car that has a computer monitor in it like the model 3? And swipe 10 times? Which car? Still waiting on what you mean by ecosystem. Last edited by SreeT : 18th January 2021 at 17:54. | ||
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18th January 2021, 17:32 | #36 |
Senior - BHPian | Re: Tesla & other electric cars challenge the dominance of German luxury brands Let me just sprinkle some oil on this debate going on :P Some examples where naysayers were proven wrong: They said Tesla will never survive to launch the model S. (Beat the S class in sales) They said the germans will best tesla in the EV game (Excluding certain EU markets it is not visible as of now) They said the car will need long hours to charge - Introduces the Supercharger They said google will beat tesla in autonomous driving - Currently tesla has billions of miles of autopilot analysis. Normal companies launch model years, Tesla upgrades existing models overnight with a software update. The company will not be able to make the model 3 - Currently makes a version and also gets the leading spots in EV in multiple markets. Some said Elon should be fired - Elon Becomes the worlds richest man The point i cannot stress enough is Tesla singlehandedly forced every government and automaker to pivot to electric. Also forced the Oil countries to pivot their economy in the coming decade. Maddy |
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18th January 2021, 17:38 | #37 | ||
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| Re: Tesla & other electric cars challenge the dominance of German luxury brands Quote:
Tesla isn't doing very hot in Europe ATM: https://www.carscoops.com/2020/11/te...ld-5726-id-3s/ I have linked like 3 cases where autopilot killed people and you still think they are good? Quote:
Last edited by SreeT : 18th January 2021 at 17:40. | ||
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18th January 2021, 17:57 | #38 |
Senior - BHPian | Re: Tesla & other electric cars challenge the dominance of German luxury brands
You love those links dont you? But here you go: Tesla wont survive: https://www.greencarreports.com/news...t-analysts-say Elon is wrong: https://www.greencarreports.com/news...-musk-is-wrong Tesla will be beaten by germans: https://www.spiegel.de/international...c-3d1140e0519f Tesla beat S class sales: Tesla Model 3 is a safe car: https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...ck/2354457001/ Charge times will ruin electric cars: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-in-15-minutes Elon musk should be fired? https://soundcloud.com/funnyastech/s...red-from-tesla Tesla beats Porsche in the Nuburgring: https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...20get%20there. Pivot from Oil or Die: https://www.climateandcapitalmedia.c...-pivot-or-die/ This is from 2010 when Tesla barely survived: https://www.wired.com/2010/09/ff-tesla/ There are many areas in which Tesla is bad presently, but it will be hard to ignore them or EVs at the moment in time. Maddy |
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18th January 2021, 19:31 | #39 |
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| Re: Tesla & other electric cars challenge the dominance of German luxury brands As a Musk fan but not a Tesla fanboy, I can't but admire the genius for what he has done on the EV space. We can criticize all we want, but he produced a product that was almost deemed impossible at the price point that he did it. But in the longer term, I do see Tesla more as battery maker than car maker. I'd bet that the big boys from Germany will do a better job of making a soulful EV (e.g Taycan by all reviews looks like the best driver's EV ever made thus far). As someone who drove the performance version of Model 3, I can't but remember with a smile the absolute fun the instant acceleration gives - its almost like a fast roller coaster. But the car as such is clearly not for everyone - its just OK in handling, interior is a bit too dry, there is no soul in the drive and for me it caused motion sickness which I've never ever had in my life. Im looking forward to driving the Taycan and seeing how much better it is on areas that I value. But no taking away what they did to revolutionize EV space. |
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18th January 2021, 20:44 | #40 |
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| Re: Tesla & other electric cars challenge the dominance of German luxury brands Am I the only one who thinks THERE IS SCOPE FOR EMERGENCE OF NEW PREMIUM BRANDS LIKE TESLA? My reason being- 1. EVs have less moving parts, so there is much scope for standardisation. This means more brands can emerge easily just like smartphone industry. This also means maybe change of old guard among contract manufacturing companies like Bosch, Delphi, etc. with emergence of new contract manufacturing companies like Foxconn in smartphone industry. 2. Because of standardisation, I suppose cars will become more modular with lots of DIY user upgrades and greater longivity. So we might see emergence of luxury accessories for EVs in place of tuning companies for petrol cars. 3. I see a world where every manufacturer of car can match or may be better Tesla's wealth of autopilot, driving data by tying up with tech and cloud companies like apple, amazon and google. Just like the one happening between apple and hyundai. The more not talked about aspect is that with the advent of EVs and autonomous driving, I feel there is a strong need to evaluate and modify our existing road laws. Interesting times ahead! P.S - Experts in these fields kindly clarify and comment on my above mentioned thoughts, as they are pure speculations. |
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18th January 2021, 22:29 | #41 |
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| Re: Tesla & other electric cars challenge the dominance of German luxury brands I remember a few years ago there were few brand new Audi Q7 sent to Himalayas for a road trip as media launch event. Few of them had to come back on a Tata tow trucks because of failures. Pictures of that appeared on this very forum. So much for engineering. In general if any company does not spend on media via their PR, it is quite natural that company will only get negative PR. I like the fact that media is fully focused on where their next meal is coming from. (Just for reference, I do not consider Team-BHP as media house). For some years now, people have been trying to predict implosion of Tesla as a company and have been nicely slapped by the stock investors (note i said investors not traders). Few years back when looking for a diesel hatchback, I got into a VW polo to test drive, somehow did not like how it responded (or did not respond) to accelerator input. The sales guy said engine is a 30 year old reliable design. And after a few years Diesel gate blew in the face of VW. I thanked MS to not have agreed to pressures from VW to accept their sub-standard engine. Now, I do not care whether the new EV's are luxury products or not. Just that one player is far ahead of others in terms of technology. I do not expect many to understand the technological advantages one player holds. Just for example the range Tesla achieves with much smaller battery requires sometimes up to 40% larger batteries for others. Many players are depending on radar & mobile connectivity to attempt full self driving by constantly downloading HD maps of current local area to identify objects that are around. I hope the obvious is visible that network connectivity is not always top notch. Then it is also quite obvious the one who solves for computer vision will lead the race. I also think the initial batches of Tesla cars in India will come with self driving disabled in software but with fully capable hardware. Some one was mentioning small European country as an example where some luxury brand EV cars are outselling Tesla. Surprisingly Renault Zoe is the largest selling EV in Europe. Not coming from any named luxury brands. It is also coincidental that many luxury brands are forced to buy carbon credit from Tesla so that they can keep selling fossil fueled cars. Quite a contradiction. If they are out selling Tesla then they should already have the carbon credits, No? In the Indian context, I see other manufacturers with a tinted glass of providing sub-standard experience and quality (for mass market south of 20L). This includes even Indian manufacturers. Having studied how Tesla manufactures, I am confident and hopeful the same level of safety and product quality will be experienced as with say US users. There are a few things which Tesla as an end-2-end player (as both car and energy supplier) will help in India. Some are: - Planned and already auctioned solar power generation capacity waiting for long term contracts, so that the project takes off - Already installed solar and wind energy with long term contracts. The recently commissioned capacity is struggling to find buyers How? With the Mega packs and Super chargers combined, they can benefit from low energy prices and at the same time the green energy producers get good revenue visibility. Last edited by CarJunki : 18th January 2021 at 22:31. |
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19th January 2021, 01:53 | #42 | ||||||||||
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| Re: Tesla & other electric cars challenge the dominance of German luxury brands Quote:
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Infact I think there is acutally a PR department for tesla here. It's a volunteer department as opposed to a paid one which I consider you to be a part of. If not, then how can the share price be explained in spite of all these faults, especially the ones costing human lives? Quote:
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I hope that the Chinese cars tesla is going to sell will have even shit quality so that our money doesn't flow into our dystopian enemy. Quote:
They are very good reasons, and I too think that it might actually start the coach building industry back again. But the cars might look bland though considering the need to extract as much range as possible from the amount of energy onboard. Last edited by SreeT : 19th January 2021 at 02:00. | ||||||||||
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19th January 2021, 02:34 | #43 | |
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| Re: Tesla & other electric cars challenge the dominance of German luxury brands Quote:
On the Tesla, I have myself hit the voice button and said "bug report", when there has been a slowdown in set cruise speed on a seemingly straight road. In a couple weeks, such problems go away with the next update. That is the beauty of a connected car. One user's data on a particular road can be used to make the drive better for thousands of other Teslas that use this road. I am not sure what Tesla PR you are talking about. https://electrek.co/2020/10/06/tesla...pr-department/ While we talk about this we need to talk about the biased media, because of the millions spent on ads in Road & Track, Car & Driver and such outlets. Then there are the ads from the dealers. If not for the Tesla owners, Tesla would not have nearly half the success they have had. I am not disputing the paint quality issues, or panel gap issues reported by some. It is a car that came with a 7 day return policy. What other manufacturer takes returns? People held on to their cars because the issues were not dealbreakers, but they choose to get some clicks/popularity by making a Tesla video. That said, I have had my Model 3 for almost 3 years now. It has not been to any service shop, nothing spent on regular maintenance. I changed the tires, wipers, and cabin air filter for kicks - that's it. I am awaiting Rivian, and considering their pickup. I am not hopeful of ever seeing a compelling offering from the traditional auto dealer mafia. Even the Mustang EV is gradually being destroyed with crazy markups. They will not invest insane amounts, and go all in while they can milk it with ICE cars. It takes certain amount of lunacy to invest in giga factories, nationwide charging networks, and AI backed with big data. No one else is even trying these things. Last edited by GutsyGibbon : 19th January 2021 at 02:48. | |
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19th January 2021, 02:51 | #44 | |
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| Re: Tesla & other electric cars challenge the dominance of German luxury brands Quote: As for sales - https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesm...#39;s%20market. And if you knew anything you would know that Europe is severely supply constrained in that they get their cars from the Freemont factory and possibly from China now and they dont even have Model Y launched as yet. It is the reason why a giga factory is Berlin is under construction and true numbers would be out once that factory starts building cars for Europe. P.S. You can now go back to finding sporadic links now Last edited by extreme_torque : 19th January 2021 at 02:53. | |
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19th January 2021, 03:14 | #45 | |||||||
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| Re: Tesla & other electric cars challenge the dominance of German luxury brands Quote:
Let me put it in a simple question: In the first tractor-trailer accident, after it hit the trailer and had it's top removed, which presumably also got rid of the 'autopilot' cameras, the car continued at the set speed according to the NTSB, eventually veering off the road. Is this proper behavior in your opinion, that the 'autopilot' doesn't even know that an accident has taken place? Quote:
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BTW until around ~1 year ago, most of these youtube channels and news websites always had a tesla referral code attached to their videos/articles, now it's only some of them doing it. Isn't that PR? Quote:
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What do you mean by sporadic links? I'm linking facts that support my point. You can argue my facts if you think your viewpoint is correct, you can't just stick your head in the sand and hope to win arguments based on words rather than facts. Last edited by SreeT : 19th January 2021 at 03:36. | |||||||
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