14th December 2021, 17:01 | #196 |
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| Re: Tesla Model 3 coming to India in 2021! Tesla receives approval for 3 more EV variants in India According to media reports, Tesla now has seven EV variants approved in India. The government of India had approved four variants back in August this year. Tesla India has now received approval for three more variants from the Ministry of Road Transport and Highways. We still don't know the exact details of the variants that have been approved. However, the company has been testing the Model 3 and Model Y in India for quite some time. Initially, Tesla plans to import its EVs into India and has requested the government to reduce the import duty. If there's enough demand, the carmaker could evaluate the possibility of local manufacturing. Source: Teslarati Link to Team-BHP News |
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3rd January 2022, 11:45 | #197 |
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| Re: Tesla Model 3 coming to India in 2021! Saw this Tesla on road test yesterday in Pune . It was nice to see it in person. Hopefully it becomes affordable enough for me to own it soon. |
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13th January 2022, 09:39 | #198 |
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| Re: Tesla Model 3 coming to India in 2021! Last edited by Venkatesh : 13th January 2022 at 09:46. |
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13th January 2022, 10:34 | #199 | |
Distinguished - BHPian | Re: Tesla Model 3 coming to India in 2021! Musk shares update on Tesla launch in India, says facing challenges. Quote:
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14th January 2022, 09:59 | #200 | |
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| Re: Tesla Model 3 coming to India in 2021! Quote: If Tesla imports its cars, there is no incentive left for them to make in India. They will happily keep selling their cars under the limit as would be prescribed by the government, without actually investing in production. Import duties are paid by all automakers, so why should Tesla be given a special treatment? After all, EVs are now scheduled to be offered by almost all major manufacturers so Tesla's demand no longer holds value. Had they been requesting this 4 years ago, it would have made sense, but not in the current Indian automotive scenario. | |
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14th January 2022, 10:14 | #201 |
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| Re: Tesla Model 3 coming to India in 2021! For some one trying portray an image that he is one with the masses, Elon Musk sure wants special treatment all the time. I hope Indian Govt. does not back down. If he wants to sell in India he can either pay the taxes everyone has to deal with or produce in India. |
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14th January 2022, 10:20 | #202 |
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| Re: Tesla Model 3 coming to India in 2021! My question is, even if import duties were to be lowered to promote EVs in the country, why should we do it for Tesla which isn't even a mass market player according to our country conditions? Cheapest Tesla starts at Rs 32L, even if duties are lowered there's no way they would be able to price it below Rs 45L. How would such a premium car promote EVs in the masses? We should better focus on locally made cheap EVs. |
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14th January 2022, 11:01 | #203 | |
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| Re: Tesla Model 3 coming to India in 2021! Quote:
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14th January 2022, 11:10 | #204 |
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| Re: Tesla Model 3 coming to India in 2021!
The govt. needs to mobilize support for country wide charging network. Dozen chargers every 10 kms on national highways. This will ensure cheaper EVs with much smaller batteries start to look enticing. Also, push to standardize charging connectors for 2 wheelers and cars. |
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14th January 2022, 11:25 | #205 |
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| Re: Tesla Model 3 coming to India in 2021! They must have done their homework. The cheapest Model 3 in the US starts at 40,000 USD. That makes an ex-factory price of Rs 30 lac without customs, GST and RTO. They can’t build everything here and on kits, the duty will be about 25%. Then add 40-50% GST on vehicles. That makes the Ex-showroom price over Rs 50 lac. Now, how many people will be buying this car at 50 lac is something no one can predict and putting up a factory with no sales plan is not something Tesla will do. If they launch with 100% customs duties, this car will be even more expensive. Comparing with launches from BMW and Mercedes, have got only a few units and most likely taken a hit (recovered via the publicity they got everywhere) but Tesla cannot simply bring a few pieces and start operating. That’s not the way they work. Tesla has shown what they are capable. Regarding the home competition, it may sound bad but we still don’t have a fully developed IC car that costs over 30 Lac and people buy in thousands. We do need the companies like Tesla. Last edited by Turbanator : 14th January 2022 at 11:39. |
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14th January 2022, 11:38 | #206 | ||||
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| Re: Tesla Model 3 coming to India in 2021! Quote:
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On another note, let's do a comparative analysis on Tesla's plans for India as well as India's biggest rival, both economically and militarily, China.
In short, Why is that Tesla or any other company for matter enjoy tax benefits simply by importing the vehicles when they can simply manufacture or assemble here and enjoy the tax benefits through PLI schemes? The simple answer to this question is in how most of the companies owned by Elon Musk work. Tesla, much like the Boring Co. and what it did in Las Vegas, aims at testing the Indian waters and how the market responds to it, without actually putting their neck on the line or any other potential risk associated with it. Tesla wants its vehicles to penetrate the Indian market without actually taking any risk or make any commitment to the Indian market. The Economic and Social Impact of Colonial Rule in India Editing to avoid repetitive posts: Quote:
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And, we don't "need" companies like Tesla, although they are free to enter the market as per the rule of the law, without any special treatment. Last edited by Moto_Bear : 14th January 2022 at 11:54. Reason: Added replies | ||||
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14th January 2022, 20:48 | #207 | ||||
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| Re: Tesla Model 3 coming to India in 2021! Quote:
Yes, there are numerous examples where underdeveloped countries have failed or even worsened by not having their own manufacturing and how we have done better than anyone else but in certain fields, it will not hurt anybody if the overall ecosystem gets a boost by allowing some time based relaxation, especially for a newer Technology. Quote:
At the same time, there are numerous other manufacturers who have succeeded as well, like Kia, so it’s not that everything is bad here. It’s a risk that not everyone is willing to take. By having a company like Tesla, the whole EV things get a push, if you don’t thing that way, fair enough. In any case, Tesla is not something that majority of car buyers can afford at first place, not just in India but everywhere. And, then there are challenges on the EV front. But as our economy grows and as more people can afford, buying an EV will help save us Oil and environment. My reasoning to support this segment with lower duties is purely from that prospective. Quote:
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What they & others are asking is relaxation for some time/ number of units to test our market before larger investments are made. Fair demand in my opinion but I am not good in economics, so the people who take such decisions will know far better. | ||||
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15th January 2022, 02:15 | #208 | |||||||
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| Re: Tesla Model 3 coming to India in 2021! Hey Turbanator. Hoping to keep this answer short, and also providing necessary sources from where I draw my conclusions. Quote:
Heck, the all mighty USA still follows selective import tariffs to this day even on which type of Mangoes will be sold in their market, and given how Indian mangoes which will be exported to USA due to the recent 2+2 trade agreement is such a big news. Research Paper on Japanese Economy Pre and Post 1945 War Quote:
Analysis: Why Ford failed in India by Hormazd Sorabjee Ford's India exit: What went wrong and who would benefit from it Quote:
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Fun fact: Tesla would go bankrupt if they were to sell only the base versions of Model 3 starting from $35,000 sans the autopilot. One can simply understand why they want reduced tariffs for their vehicles. There's a beautiful research article on this and I quote: Quote:
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Half of Tesla's global deliveries in 2021 came from China Why is it then, Tesla is unsure and unwilling to invest in India which has low labor cost, highly skilled managerial staff and engineers and moreover has a revolutionary PLI scheme focusing mainly on EV sector with huge tax benefits. You may ask, how much? Over $875.5 million just for one Company. and I quote: Quote:
PRODUCTION LINKED INCENTIVE (PLI) SCHEME FOR AUTOMOBILE AND AUTO COMPONENT INDUSTRY Why so over indulgence in China which has a higher labor cost(on papers) and a one party hush-it-all regime. Then there are cases of forced labor from Xinjiang and child labor which, albeit not on papers, make the production dirt cheap in China and believe me when I say, a lot of big names have been brought up in this horrific practice. Child labour growing in Apple supply chain Child labour uncovered in Apple's supply chain China: 83 major brands implicated in report on forced labour of ethnic minorities from Xinjiang So, what is it that makes Tesla that special that it needs to be awarded with tax benefits and not, say Hyundai who is equally acing in EV tech if not more. 'Cause to be honest, when that mass EV revolution comes, a lot of folks would be sitting inside a Kona or a ZS or maybe even Tata Sierra or an all blue XUV7OO/9OO than say a $75,000 Model 3 Top variant(Personal Opinion) sans the tax benefits. So much for the short post. Last edited by Moto_Bear : 15th January 2022 at 02:21. Reason: Added a missing link to an article | |||||||
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15th January 2022, 02:19 | #209 | |
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| Re: Tesla Model 3 coming to India in 2021! Quote:
Majority of the countries you have mentioned have grown because of rapid industrialization and that too majorly supported by local brands. So much so that the top selling vehicles in the US were local brands. US top selling vehicle Ford F-Series, followed by RAM (Stellantis) GM and Toyota. Whereas Toyota has a plant in Texas and other states. Japan - Toyota Yaris top selling car followed by vehicles from Suzuki and Honda. All brands are Japanese. Germany - Top selling brands in Germany VW, BMW, Mercedes and Audi. All German manufacturers, now people mock German brands for unreliability, but in that case Germany should be filled with Hondas and Toyotas. On top of that Germany charges high import tariffs on imported cars, Merkel did the same thing that India did, they were ready to give incentives on EV’s if they are produced locally. South Korea: Top selling car Hyundai Porter II, second best selling car another Hyundai. Another local brand leading the way. France: Top selling brands Renault, Dacia and Peugeot, all French brands. UK: Best selling car Vauxhall Corsa produced locally. That is a big achievement for the UK considering whatever were once iconic British brands are now owned by foreign companies. Still they do their best to keep the production facilities in their country, ask Tata about it. So to say that the auto industry in these countries have grown only because they didn’t have any import barriers is incorrect. In fact during the Trump administration the government outright warned local auto manufacturers with heavy import duties if they import foreign produced vehicles. After which GM and other companies pledged to invest 2 billions dollars locally to develop new factories. Secondly, we say that we need Tesla to boost EV sales in India. So what US company came to India that helped boost sales of Ather Energy, Ola Electric Scooters and other local electric two wheeler manufacturers? The idea, that some foreign company will come to India and set up shop, then we will be motivated to adapt to any new technology is a thought of yesteryears. I see people using UPI service through BHIM, Paytm and other apps all around me. Do you think we should have waited for Apple to first launch Apple Pay in India for us to get a boost for adopting mobile payments? Thirdly, as much as I like Elon Musk and the marketing genius he is, where he himself is the sole brand ambassador for all his companies, one needs to understand that underneath he is a shrewd businessman. When California was under lockdown during the first Covid wave, the state decided to gradually lift the lockdown in a phased manner. Because his factory didn’t fall in the announced category, the guy went on a tirade on twitter and threatened to open the factory without taking any clearance from local authorities. So his tactics where he puts pressure on the governments through social media to get his way is nothing new. His twitter army worldwide then starts pushing his agenda, the Pathole guy’s twitter account is filled with 99.99% of Elon worshiping tweets. This is a misconception that having Tesla in India will boost EV adoption in India. Tesla doesn’t share its tech with other companies, nor does it share any source code of its software with other manufacturers that can help them produce better EV’s. You will say what company does that? Rimac does it. That is why you see it powering cars all the way from Hyundai Kona to Porsche Taycan. One will say yes because both companies invested in it. But that was way after the company already produced working concept cars and Rimac itself wanted to be a supplier. Just because Ducati launched its motorcycles in India, that doesn’t mean it helped Bajaj or Hero sell more units or change the behavior of Indian consumers in any way when it comes to buying two wheelers. Tesla has no plans to set up a plant in India whether the government removes duty or not. Tesla has already set up China as a hub for international exports. The factory there is expanding further with new land acquisitions. They will produce a cheaper car initially for the Chinese market, and then later bring that car to India and other markets like Brazil. Even Australia taxes them with heavy import duties. Apart from that it becomes a political nightmare when it comes foreign relations. You allow Tesla to import cars with import duties waived, all German brands go back to their governments complaining of unfair trade practices. Look how Visa and Mastercard are lobbying the US government because they feel Rupay cards are getting preferential treatment in India. They even labeled it as payment nationalism. Lastly, if you want to know what happens when a country doesn’t take proactive measures to protect its industry, you can become a country like Canada. The so-called developed country is so dependent on the US that it pays manufacturers from its pocket to stay in the country and produce cars to protect jobs. Technically, taxpayers are paying from their own pocket to save their own jobs. Every few years Ford and Chrysler threaten to leave the country and the government panics to provide bailouts to make them stay. We don’t want India to turn into an economy like that. Tata and MG are already way ahead of Tesla when it comes to understanding the Indian usage of an EV. They have data and know already what changes they need to make to the car for Indian buyers. Nexon EV’s growing sales are a perfect example that Indians are not waiting for Tesla’s to come in to motivate them to buy an EV. 99% of the people on Twitter asking for Tesla to come to India aren’t actual buyers, they just want to see it in a store, play with the touchscreen and then come back to start the next round of complaints that it is too expensive. Reminds me of a story once where I was speaking to a senior executive of Mazda, he told me that there was high demand on social media from enthusiasts to launch manual Mazda 3 in Canada. When they followed through, they couldn't even sell one third of the units that they brought in. So next time when enthusiasts requested to bring in the MAZDASPEED 3 version, the answer was strict no from the head office. | |
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15th January 2022, 03:05 | #210 | |
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| Re: Tesla Model 3 coming to India in 2021! Quote:
The fast charger connectivity standard is spelt out by the govt. and the interface to the grid is spelt out. Bigger players like Adani power, Reliance JIO-BP need to own and operate the fast charging stations. The EV buyer would be able to use any fast charging station, just like fueling at any gas station. When I look for chargers on Tata motors website, I see hotels, dealerships, with one or two trickle chargers. Zeon and BluSmart are also 25Kw chargers (correct me if I am wrong). I have such a 50Amp Level 2 charger at home. A fragmented and inferior network will really do more harm in a country that is already skeptical of EVs. Last edited by GutsyGibbon : 15th January 2022 at 03:14. | |
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