[Lightning2]

Originally Posted by ChiragM

I got an opportunity to visit Pravaig Dynamics to understand what the company is about and their vision. I also got a chance to check out their "prototype" electric car called the Extinction.

Regards to members of Pravaig for hard work ! Thanks Chirag for write up efforts and sharing with us.
But none of the subsystems seem to be properly engineered. Few outright discrepancy can be picked on the fly.
1. 2000kg battery on a 4 seater Sedan is way over weight !
2. why designing electric car with 190 kmph Plus speeds in first place ?
3. the front bumper itself will not pass Pedestrian safety
4. Control panel overhead on the Roof will be difficult to Operate while sitting and the control buttons and electronics will get damaged while car is parked under sun in open parking
5. Fiber composite body on Steel chassis ? What about driver safety on side impacts and collision ? Also as someone said will be expensive to maintain in Indian traffic where car steel panels get dented and those dents can be pulled and repaired
6. Targeting Hotel & Corporate for picking VIP guests is again faulty vision as Hotel and corporate are image and brand conscious. They tend to keep Premium car makers and premium models, fuel cost is not a factor in such ferry trips for VIPs or top officials
7. Targeting Zoom car, taxi fleet operators may be good idea because fuel costs are big factor in such trips. But again designing Luxury Rear sliding and inclining seat is bad idea as it robs you of luggage space !!
8. The Product director seem to over ride opinion & suggestions of Subject matter experts.

Originally Posted by GTO

But they have to be realistic. Developing a car, in-house batteries, apps, software, autonomous driving etc. requires ENORMOUS resources like you wouldn't believe

Perfect and summarized opinion as always in most threads. A suggestion to fellow BHPians, if you do not want to read 10s of comments in a certain thread due to shortage of time or whatever, just read GTOs Comment(s) and you should be Good

[starke]

Originally Posted by Lightning2

1. 2000kg battery on a 4 seater Sedan is way over weight !

I think it is the Kerb weight, not at all a pack weight.

[Herschey]

I read it on one of the popular financial news sites that Tesla is also looking at entering India by the year 2021. Even if we assume that they delay it by another 5 years i.e. they fully enter India by year 2026, the investment that this startup would be making would simply go down the drain.

Manufacturing automobiles is a really tough business. The same is pretty evident from the performance of the top 5 global manufacturers today and the struggles they are having to go through to stay afloat.

As far as startups in India are concerned, we all know that not even 1% of them are making profits on a consistent basis raising questions on their sustainability. Ignoring the business' topline and bottomline unabashedly, it has become an out an out valuation game; a kind of a facade which is bound to collapse sooner than later (WeWork anybody). We have several startup companies whose overall topline is not even USD 50 million and an unquestionably dismal growth rate but are proudly self valued at a billion or even 10 billion dollars at stratospheric P.E levels.

Tesla clearly has a big head start in the EV space, be it in terms of having relevant platforms available, the motors, the battery tech, the software including the autonomous driving bit, and the charging infrastructure. The icing on the cake is that its technology or shall I say their entire ecosystem has proven itself over time and is pretty reliable over the entire product lifecycle.

So how does one compete with a company which has at least a 10 years head start? The practical but rude answer is that it's simply not possible. So, if it's not possible, how does one stay afloat and still remain in business? One way is to borrow or license the technology and implement it in a premium/ niche product targeted at a specific genre of customers. The other choice is to invest in developing alternate solutions to the EV space like the hydrogen powered fuel cell technology which is what companies like Toyota (Mirai FCV) and Honda are dabbling in. In any case, it requires tremendous amount of resources of every kind to bring an idea to fruition.

Now, this begs a different sort of a question; would I personally invest in a startup like Pravaig to bet on the promises they aim to deliver considering the much expected changing automotive business landscape in the near future. My personal answer would be a 'NO' since I don't even see the planned investment breaking even forget about making profits. Even as a customer, I would rather pay a premium and stay with a brand which would last and support me my purchase lifecycle.

As much as I would love a completely Indian brand implementing fully indigenous tech and rock the global alternative fuel ecosystem, Pravaig fails to pass my litmus test and would not likely be able to even make it through.

[adityasatish]

Originally Posted by GTO

IMHO, Pravaig should outsource & pick up whatever they can.

I agree, especially since all the vehicles they produce will end up being their own asset as they don't plan on selling the cars. From a business stand point, it doesn't seem easy, but then again, this is unchartered territory so we'll have to wait and see.

[Raghu M]

Can't stop but appreciate the vision of this entrepreneur. All said and done, the tech and autonomous driving features are something that need huge capital and human resources. Starting with 70 employees is good but if everything is going to be done in-house, that is something they need to rethink about. The thought process is amazing but I see a few things like airplane like buttons (who would prefer looking at the roof while driving?) and the out of date MID. Looks like a fancy car from the 90s. Remember Knight Rider?

[srini1785]

It seems to me that even though the car has killer looks on the exterior , the interior needs more attention. Its not all bad but could be better.

For example : Front boot needs a better design.



Don't use overhead switches for a road car. Its ok in an airplane since you don't need to keep your eyes forward all the time.



Such switches look best only on elevators.



Get a better carpeting in the interiors.



While i do appreciate the amount of effort that has gone into the production of the prototypes but if they are targeting to lease these cars to luxury hotels to ferry HNI's , they better get their interiors right.

[sramanat]

There was a McKinsey report from a year+ ago that decomposed the cost of EVs in comparison with ICE cars. Their fancy term is "value-neutral decontenting" the vehicle. In other words, most EVs are going for differentiators beyond the engine/drivetrain which drives up the cost. There is a huge market to be addressed by providing EVs with the form factor of an ICE car. The Nexon EV is a great example. If Tesla is the path breaker and makes cars with a distinct futuristic styling, Nexon is at the other end of the spectrum, virtually undistinguishable from its petrol/diesel variant. With another 200km in added range for an extra 5 lakhs, Nexon can become the primary car in an upper middle class family. The white Pravaig could be a showpiece designed to pique interest and turn heads, but I hope when they get into production, they make something like a City/Verna/Ciaz at less than 30% price premium.

[Jeroen]

They feel that people should not buy cars at all

When I look at these prototypes I can definitely say I will not buy any of them!

[TusharK]

Pravaig Extinction EV: Reddit AMA & unveil countdown timer

Pravaig Dynamics is gearing up to unveil its first electric car called the Extinction on December 4, 2020. The countdown timer for the unveiling is now live on the website.



Ahead of the official unveiling, the company is also conducting a Reddit AMA (AskMeAnything) on the subreddit r/IndiaSpeaks on November 22 at 6 pm.

The Pravaig Extinction EV will produce 201 BHP and a claimed 2,400 Nm. The car is said to accelerate from 0-100 km/h in 5.4 seconds and has a claimed top speed of 196 km/h. The batteries are said to offer a maximum range of 504 km and take 30 minutes to charge to 80%.

The Extinction EV is expected to be launched sometime next year.

Thanks to Deepak Joseph for sending this information in. Heartfelt gratitude for sharing it with other enthusiasts via this Team-BHP page!

[landcruiser123]

Originally Posted by sramanat

In other words, most EVs are going for differentiators beyond the engine/drivetrain which drives up the cost..... but I hope when they get into production, they make something like a City/Verna/Ciaz at less than 30% price premium.

To get early adopters, companies will launch an unique product that’ll turn heads and make newspaper headlines. Tesla did it with the Roadster, Model S and now the Model 3. The smartphone revolution was made possible by the first apple iPhone and the car which revolutionized transportation by replacing horse drawn carriages.

Once the product is mature and goes beyond the “early adopter” stage, princes will drop and mass production will begin. Most of the market will then snap it up. Nearly everyone has a smartphone today and Ford Model T made cars accessible to majority of American public in the early 20th century.

I’d like to believe we may see 10-20 lakh rupee electric cars (with some tax breaks) with 350-500 km range and good quick charging capabilities within the next 5-10 years.

Originally Posted by ChiragM

• The car is powered by a single electric motor powering the rear wheels and revs to 16,000 rpm. It produces 201 BHP and 300 Nm. The 0-100 km/h time is said to be 5.4 seconds, and the car maker claims that it can do 220 km/h, but the top speed has been limited to 196 km/h. The car has a 96 kWh battery pack and weighs around 2,000 kg.

• The battery for the car will be made in-house. Cells for the battery pack are imported from South Korea. The pack consists of 5,000 cells, weighs 500 kg and is placed on the floor of the car. With a usage of 200-250 km/day, Pravaig claims that the battery pack will last 10 years.

Are there 4 packs of 500kg each for a total battery weight of 2000 kg?

Originally Posted by TusharK

The Pravaig Extinction EV will produce 201 BHP and a claimed 2,400 Nm. The car is said to accelerate from 0-100 km/h in 5.4 seconds and has a claimed top speed of 196 km/h.

Is there a typo in the torque figures? The OP said 300Nm in the preliminary specifications. 2400Nm is 8x and would chew up the tires quickly.

[srishiva]

I am surprised how easily we dismiss people trying to come up with something. For Mahindra and Tatas of this country, they have been doing it for so long that if they come up with something not that good, we can be critical. But we all know how difficult it is to start something new in our country.

Even in something not that capital intensive like software, most of them fail after startup. I am not saying we should get something that's not good. But the negativity is discouraging.

[SuhairZain]

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

2400Nm is 8x and would chew up the tires quickly.

These are usually the wheel torque figures and IIRC, I've read about EVs having 15k Nm of wheel torque.

[Cessna182]

In China, US$4000 EVs are giving you AC, 160 km range and some safety features. I dislike Chinese products because of personal reasons, but what they achieved is phenomenal. The car I am talking about was developed in partnership with GM.

I really wish a promising company like Pravaig took this route. Offer an affordable car for the masses, take EVs mainstream. In the current format there are just too many variables. Luxury customers are the most particular about the fit and finish etc. There are many more obstacles to success as compared to a plain EV that gets the job done and is perhaps classified as a quadricycle.

Off topic- I get a feeling that this bias towards premium customers was given to the team from some strategy consultant who came from the FMCG industry. If only these folks understood that premium perfumes worth 10k are easier to sell compared to a supposedly premium car coming from a new maker.

[SKC-auto]

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

Is there a typo in the torque figures? The OP said 300Nm in the preliminary specifications. 2400Nm is 8x and would chew up the tires quickly.

300Nm is the motor torque, with 1:8 gear ratio they would have calculated wheel torque at 2400Nm.

https://youtu.be/Ei3Rh1LTSlw

[Venkatesh]

Pravaig Electric Car debuts










Specifications

Pravaig Dynamics has estimated sales at around 250 units per annum with the new Extinction to be initially sold in Delhi and Bengaluru with markets to be extended to Mumbai, Chennai and Hyderabad later. The company is slated to offer the new Extinction as an exclusive lease model and will even provide chauffeur services if the customer so requires. Hence, no prices have been announced as on date

Pravaig Extinction electric sedan will be powered by a 96 kWh battery pack offering max power of 150 kW or 200 hp with an electric range of 504 km and a top speed of 196 km/h. Acceleration from 0 top 100 km/h could be achieved in 5.4 seconds and fast charging upto 80 percent charge in 30 minutes.

Pravaig claims that safety has been their top priority, and that the car offers 5 Star Safety

Presentation video

https://youtu.be/6NXxWRcO13s

https://pravaig.com/