[officer416]

Originally Posted by NotanF1driver

Hello everyone,

I have one question with respect to electric cars. Similar to other electronic devices which use batteries, electric car batteries would also wear out, wouldn't it? At that time, similar to a cell phone battery, it might need a replacement. Does anyone have information on how much one need to shell out for a new set of batteries? I think till the 8th year of ownership, batteries are covered by warranty (Tata or MG). When it is outside warranty, how much would one have to spend? Without a replaced battery (at least once in it's lifetime), would the car be worth anything in the 10th year?

I know of a case where one of our friends owned a Reva electric (I know that it used some primitive batteries in it - tubular, I guess). After 5 years or so, he was not able to find a buyer for it. Ultimately, when it was sold, the buyer could not drive it till his home before it ran out of charge - he hired a trailer and gave it back. Ultimately, I guess he had to scrap it! The cost of replacing batteries was not justifiable at that time.

I asked this question to Tata Nexon EV team when I ordered mine recently. I was told to expect 40% of the vehicle's cost. That is like 40% of the new car price. It will depend of the capacity of the battery remaining after accounting for degradation and if there will be an option to buy back the old battery for a new one.

[LeoRBK]

Originally Posted by yajaman99

This is a very good question and not something the sales team like to advertise. Similar to setting up a 7.4Kw AC fast charger at home.

I am planning for the MG ZS EV and let me ask this to the Executive i am dealing with.

The below article talks about this which was written for consumers in Australia.

https://thedriven.io/2021/07/23/how-...-in-australia/

Do give it a read.

On another note found this YouTube video by PowerDrift.
A drag race between the MG ZS EV and the VW Polo GT TSI

https://www.Youtube.com/watch?v=JNN7N5KsxuU&t=29s

An Interesting watch.

EV batteries are known to typically outlive the body shell. MG warranty guarantees battery state of health of 70% of installed capacity for the warranty duration.
In laymen terms of means you should be able to drive 70% of range upto 8 years.
Batteries can be repaired. Battery is a group of packs of cells. So new packs can replace the old to restore the state of health. I believe the repairs are not very common at present probably due to lack of trained professionals.
I am very sure in 8 years time, you will find plenty of repair facilities, refurbed battery packs to buy, battery upgrades.
I am optimistic that battery prices per kWh will continue to fall as they have been. The pace might be arrested by increase in EV demand and scarcity of resources, nevertheless the trend will continue to pull prices down.
So you should not worry too much about cost of replacing battery. What I can admit is that other mechanical components might start to fail and leading you to consider swapping for a new one.

[aim120]

Originally Posted by LeoRBK

Batteries can be repaired. Battery is a group of packs of cells. So new packs can replace the old to restore the state of health. I believe the repairs are not very common at present probably due to lack of trained professionals.

Battery can only be replaced, since all the cells would have drop in their charge capacity. So the entire pack will have to be replaced.
The old cells can however be used for another vehicle or the same vehicle for short range daily runs or even in a bigger vehicle like a pick up truck or large size vehicles, which has the space to hold large battery pack or even be used for energy storage in house or super charger stations for rapid dc to dc charging.

[LeoRBK]

Originally Posted by aim120

Battery can only be replaced, since all the cells would have drop in their charge capacity. So the entire pack will have to be replaced.
The old cells can however be used for another vehicle or the same vehicle for short range daily runs or even in a bigger vehicle like a pick up truck or large size vehicles, which has the space to hold large battery pack or even be used for energy storage in house or super charger stations for rapid dc to dc charging.

I agree packs are replaced, perhaps that is what the term battery repair implies. So that my remarks are not misleading, I will quote from MG Warranty statement,

Lithium Ion High Voltage Battery
During a capacity check at an Authorised MG Repairer if it is determined that the lithium-ion high voltage battery
has suffered a capacity drop below 70% of the original value at delivery of your new MG Electric/Hybrid Vehicles,
the segment below 70% will be deemed excessive loss. Where possible the excessive loss portion will be
repaired, if un-repairable the lithium-ion high voltage battery will be replaced with either a new or a
remanufactured battery.

[EV Fan]

Adding to the same...

As per the MG personnel I had talked to, the price as of now is around 6 Lakh but they are looking at a price of around 3 Lakh in some years based on the current trend.

They have even indicated that in their FAQ section



https://www.mgmotor.co.in/tools/faq

[ADI7YAK]

Originally Posted by EV Fan

Adding to the same...
... but they are looking at a price of around 3 Lakh in some years based on the current trend.

This is indeed a good thing! Please take note that battery prices are still going to fluctuate based on manufacturer. MG ZS EV uses batteries from CATL while Kona uses LG Chem, for example. Batteries need not be changed for at least 8years/1.6 lakh km (and they have warranty till that point too!) Batteries are more likely to outlast car's life.

[kosjam]

Originally Posted by aim120

Battery can only be replaced, since all the cells would have drop in their charge capacity. So the entire pack will have to be replaced.
The old cells can however be used for another vehicle or the same vehicle for short range daily runs or even in a bigger vehicle like a pick up truck or large size vehicles, which has the space to hold large battery pack or even be used for energy storage in house or super charger stations for rapid dc to dc charging.

They may change the particular battery for ease of use for the owner, but the battery is modular, and intelligent. The pack is made of modules, with each module further broken into sets of batteries. Each module can self diagnose and can report drop in performance (voltage, current drop) and a module can be easily swapped out with one with similar power capacity as the rest of the modules, and the battery can be easily reused.

[EV Fan]

Originally Posted by kosjam

They may change the particular battery for ease of use for the owner, but the battery is modular, and intelligent. The pack is made of modules, with each module further broken into sets of batteries. Each module can self diagnose and can report drop in performance (voltage, current drop) and a module can be easily swapped out with one with similar power capacity as the rest of the modules, and the battery can be easily reused.

Just adding to the point - the module's Battery Management System (including Battery Monitoring System) which are running the show, can even be updated OTA(over the air).
It is already being done by some of the manufacturer's, sometimes to address the safety concerns, at other times to improve perfomance & longevity.

Though one concern is that the BMS is more of a blind spot for a customer, there is never a clear indicator/figure for the BMS system that we can understand or compare. As of now, with no regulations on the perfomance/quality of a BMS system, this is left completely to the manufacturer.
Manufacturer's can never cut cost on battery size/quality as it would show on the "battery capacity or range" figures. But that is not the case for the BMS - no count or a figure to gauge that for the BMS.
If the manufacturer's cut cost by lets say the count of monitoring sensors, how can we get to know?

Originally Posted by ADI7YAK

MG ZS EV uses batteries from CATL while Kona uses LG Chem, for example.

Sadly both LG Chem & CATL has already had a history of issues. The LG Chem was directly reflected on the Kona leading to the recalls. Did not hear anything on the MG ZS but CATL's supply to another low cost EV manufacturer has taken a hit.
Thankfully, the warranty addresses the reliability concern. Would have loved if they could have some better indicators for battery aging & perfomance rather than the vague method of keeping an eye out on the driving range reduction over time.
The BMS would definitely be able to give that, though its the manufacturer's call how and what they want to share with the customer.

[LeoRBK]

Originally Posted by EV Fan

Just adding to the point - the module's Battery Management System (including Battery Monitoring System) which are running the show, can even be updated OTA(over the air).
It is already being done by some of the manufacturer's, sometimes to address the safety concerns, at other times to improve perfomance & longevity.

Though one concern is that the BMS is more of a blind spot for a customer, there is never a clear indicator/figure for the BMS system that we can understand or compare. As of now, with no regulations on the perfomance/quality of a BMS system, this is left completely to the manufacturer.
Manufacturer's can never cut cost on battery size/quality as it would show on the "battery capacity or range" figures. But that is not the case for the BMS - no count or a figure to gauge that for the BMS.
If the manufacturer's cut cost by lets say the count of monitoring sensors, how can we get to know?



Sadly both LG Chem & CATL has already had a history of issues. The LG Chem was directly reflected on the Kona leading to the recalls. Did not hear anything on the MG ZS but CATL's supply to another low cost EV manufacturer has taken a hit.
Thankfully, the warranty addresses the reliability concern. Would have loved if they could have some better indicators for battery aging & perfomance rather than the vague method of keeping an eye out on the driving range reduction over time.
The BMS would definitely be able to give that, though its the manufacturer's call how and what they want to share with the customer.

You can use an OBD2 with a capable app (torque pro, ovms or EV watchdog) to read out BMS including SoH.

https://www.mgevs.com/forums/mg-ev-u...ovms-forum.29/

[EV Fan]

Originally Posted by LeoRBK

You can use an OBD2 with a capable app (torque pro, ovms or EV watchdog) to read out BMS including SoH.

https://www.mgevs.com/forums/mg-ev-u...ovms-forum.29/

Thank You LeoRBK for adding this info. I am guessing though you have already tried this (and are quite tech savy). My quote was in general for all customers, some of them who may not be tech savy.

I remember vaguely reading about it some time back but had never drilled down further into it untill now.

Though the info available online is quite extensive and self explanatory,I had a few questions which i have realised might be a concern if anybody here tries this. I was hoping if you could help me on the same:
1.) Country / Region of the car plays an important role as the PID mapping could be different and might end up giving garbled or wrong data. And i dont think we have the mapping available for India or not even sure if it is cloned from any of the other regions.
Worst case scenario -zombie mode or alarm trigger and we end up panicking. Nightmase for a non-techie that too expirementing on a 22L product.
2.) Isn't the data available, still just, values/figures. Won't they need some analysis before it can used to gauge health or ageing.
Also i could not find any info on allowable degradation rates which can be used to lets say identify whether its the natural process or could indicate premature failure - warranting a replacement.
3.) If some of these apps are on a cloud based server (as an interface between car module & app). Are there chances that these apps could be blocked due to data laws of country or worst case scenario of corruption / hack.
4.) As of now most of these apps seem to only read data but this might change as they can be allowed to even manage some of the contollable features. Does it affect warranty especially if lets say that feature is locked in the current region(while it might be allowed somewhere else globally)?
5.)Do these modules run from the 12V battery - do the standard battery drain nuisances apply. I thought this thing is not to be connected permanently, but won't it be required for a real time app /diagnotics.

For all those who are intrested to read further, some important keywords are:
OBD2 - On-board diagnostics
OBD2 adaptor (even bluetooth adaptors are available)
OVMS - Open Vehicle Monitoring System
CAN bus - Controller Area Network
PID - Parameter IDs
OBD2/OVMS app
A google search on mg zs ev diagnostic easily throws up a lot of the stuff but recommend understanding the basics of this system before jumping in

[EV Fan]

Originally Posted by lina

Also, cruise control uses brakes rather than regen which is a bummer.

I recently test drove an "Exclusive" variant and did observe regen kicking with negative amperage (current from the motor feeding the battery) when coming down a flyover with cruise control set. I was quite relieved, especially considering there was some confusion and mixed reactions in international market.

But Thanks to the above post, about the ZS EV Excite, there was a possibility of the same issue, as the regen was not observed during cruise.

I just wanted to cross check whether the 2 variants, do react differently(in any eventuality as improbable as it may seem)
And was hoping if i could use the forum to find owners one of each variants to test them in a similar scenario. Hence the reason for quoting multiple people below.

Requesting any MG ZS EV owners, Excite & Exclusive, if they can test or keep an eye out on this scenario and share their experiences.

Originally Posted by tharian

My sister picked up one a week ago.

Originally Posted by GTO

I spent a weekend with the MG ZS EV.

Originally Posted by yajaman99

Hoping to own the MG ZS EV sometime in Aug 2021, fingers crossed.

Originally Posted by docelectric2020

Yes .. this part of the buying experience isn't known much.

Originally Posted by SuyashBansal

I got an extended TD back in September 2020

Originally Posted by flanker

The range I get with the ZS EV is around 450 to 490 km in city driving (Delhi NCR).

Test scenario-regen when going down a reasonable slope with a set cruise speed.

I could see mixed reviews in international forums, but somehow could not figure out the variants they have. While i am thinking on a purchase, i am hoping to find owners - one of each trim who could verify this. To verify if the higher end does regen down the slope with a set speed but the base variant does not.

A possible reasoning i could assume was:
some of the older type of basic (passive) cruise control could accelerate and hold the speed but could not control it down hills and could even go over if the slope gets too steep. But newer vehicles had advanced Cruise controls (one's integrated with brakes) could accelerate as well as brake to keep the speed constant.

Going thrugh international forums and product details i noticed in the international brochure that the MG ZS EV base model does not have Hill Decent control whereas the higher variant gets it(indicated in the attached brochure below).
Does that mean the lower variant does not detect the decent and appropriately utilize the regen because of this missing feature. Could somehow absence of "Hill Decent control" make it the base version of cruise control and the higher variant the second type.
Although in India both the variants seem to have this feature could this be just a code fix where they ended up utilizing the brakes instead of the regen.

Do not want to get saddled with the version that does not do regen. Unfortunately the dealer only had the Exclusive variant for Test Drive.

PFB the brochure for reference
Page 9->Features->Safety->Hill descent control

https://mgmotor.eu/storage/images/mo...V-brochure.pdf

[lina]

Originally Posted by EV Fan

But Thanks to the above post, about the ZS EV Excite, there was a possibility of the same issue, as the regen was not observed during cruise.

I will try cruise control again this weekend and report back with results. I dont think there will be any difference between excite and exclusive. The excite has hill hold descent control too. It is off by default though. Ill try cruise control with it being both on and off.

[flanker]

Originally Posted by EV Fan

Test scenario-regen when going down a reasonable slope with a set cruise speed.

I could see mixed reviews in international forums, but somehow could not figure out the variants they have.

This is the issue with the Bosch adaptive cruise control that MG uses in ZS EV in the international market. They had escalated this to Bosch for software update in Adaptive cruise control/ADAS.

Since, the India version doesn't get the adaptive cruise control the problem possibly doesn't exist in either of the variants sold in India.

I can check on the exclusive variant and get back with the results.

[EV Fan]

Originally Posted by flanker

I can check on the exclusive variant and get back with the results.

Originally Posted by lina

I will try cruise control again this weekend and report back with results. I dont think there will be any difference between excite and exclusive. The excite has hill hold descent control too. It is off by default though. Ill try cruise control with it being both on and off.

Thank you very much fellow members.
I already have my fingers crossed. Will definitely drill down on the hill descent control but hope both Exclusive & Excite regen with cruise control.

The MG Executive did add one important point " The regen does not start working till Battery percentage is less than 97%" and confirmed that regen will work in both the models.

Did the test drive of Kona, and keep a strict eye on this. The Kona does regen on cruise control, not a very info dense or graphic rich MID like the MG ZS. But keeps it simple with the information (all the data under wraps).

[architkarpe]

I recently purchased a Mg Zs EV exclusive variant.
I am posting in this thread because i did not find a thread dedicated to MG ZS owners or a review.
I have observed that i am getting three beeps (tiding sound) randomly sometimes at 60kmph. This is a very different beep from the 80km speed warning. I asked the sales rep about it he said that it happens in the test drive vehicle also ( have personally driven the test drive veh and confirmed)
Is there any setting that i am missing ? Is it any setting regarding navigation?
Help from existing owners regarding the settings would be a great help.
There is no physical user manual for the music system and vehicle / navigation settings so a bit confused.