[toothless]

Originally Posted by Karthik.guru

Hello fellow Bhpians!
Wanted to get your opinions on an issue my friend is facing with his 3 year old Nexon EV.

...


3. Why is the compressor for a Nexon EV so expensive? The equivalent part for a petrol or diesel costs ~20k.

Cheers!

AC Compressors for the ICE cars are driven by the ICE engine directly. Usually through an accessory belt or a stand alone AC belt. As this is not an option for EV cars (no engine, no belts), the compressors have their own motors to run the compressor part. These motors are driven by the car' HV battery and are compatible with the high voltages. These compressors will cost more to produce. Also, I am sure the much lower volume of EVs also adds to the price since there is no economy of scale.

That said, 1 lakh for the compressor still sounds too high a price. Its abut 7% of the ex-showroom cost of a new Nexon EV Creative Plus MR! That too without labour/taxes/refrigerant costs as applicable for the replacement.

[Luke Menzes]

Living with joined family permits plenty of optimization of resources; so after 2 years and many kms later this might be the perfect long term review of a car. We took the decision to buy an electric car given the rising cost of fuel and the terrible mileage of modern petrol vehicles. Two and a half years later, and 82k kms later here are my honest thoughts and opinions. Disclaimer, they are quite mixed.

Exteriors
Let me start by talking about the car itself as a package. The high sales of the Nexon are a testament to how solid it is as a product, and I can’t say that I don’t feel the same. The design of the car doesn’t really stand out anymore mostly because of the sheer volume of them on the street, but it’s still quite a handsome vehicle.

Interiors:
The interiors are a similar story. Being the top model, the light upholstery gives the cabin an airy and spacious feeling. The design is functional, everything is where you’d expect it to be and cabin quality on the doors and center console is solid.
However, I would like to point out that the piano plastics look good only in the showroom and for the first year. They smudge and pick up scratches far too easily to justify being the centrepiece of the dash and around almost every touchpoint. Fit and finish isn’t up to the mark in certain places as well. For instance, the glovebox has a locking mechanism which feels like it might break every time its shut, the sun visors look and feel really cheap, and the panel with the sunroof controls feels poorly put together as well. The fit and finish issue is mostly just nit picking, overall, the interiors are a good place to spend time in.

Infotainment and features:
Being a pre facelift car, there are missing features for what is expected at the price today. Wireless Charging, Auto dimming day/night mirror being the main ones, but it doesn’t bother me at all really because all what’s needed is there.

The screens are horrible. The main infotainment screen is cluttered, the UI is poorly designed, themes and icons are tacky, it’s just a bad experience overall even for a car on its way to being three. The Nissan Kicks in our garage which is crossed five years has a much better and crisper system. The drivers display too is too cluttered and is poorly designed. The colors used and design Is too loud for something in the driver’s field of view at all times; a good thing though is that at night it does switch to a dark mode which looks much better. Tata really overdid it here. I remember watching a video which raved about how good the speakers of the car were, reality, they aren’t. Again, not bad, but just a piece of marketing material. The bass in non-existent for an eight-speaker unit.

Driving Experience:
My family has loved the car. Its quick and has a light steering which is perfect for city drives. It weighs up well at speed as well and isn’t completely disconnected from the road like most electric power steering wheels today, but ofc isn’t a match for the old school hydraulic system in the Kicks (which I must mention can become an issue in the city because of its weight)that gives the car a tough and heavy feel at speed. The on-tap acceleration and instant torque is addictive, and the 120km/h speed limiter hasn’t really been an issue since it is well above speed limits. No issues with the drive at all, but at the end of the day, it’s no ice car. The lack of any grunt and feeback, sounds, is just sad for people like me who get a kick out if it, for the rest of the family, they feel indifferent.

Reliability:
This is one of the main factors that anybody considers when it comes to vehicle purchase and here sadly the car has underdelivered. The car is under warranty, the issues do get rectified, but the sheer volume of them is just unprecedented. And it’s usually the most basic things you’d expect from a car from an established manufacturer to work flawlessly.
Had an issue where the sunroof would just not close after opened, this just happened to be in the monsoons last year. After spamming the close button, it did eventually close, but it completely kills the confidence of ownership in a Tata vehicle for me at the moment. The screen on many instances has just gone blue for up to an entire day, all the buttons on the center console stopped working on a couple of other instances. These are the minor issues.
Had a long period of time where the charge port of the car would be very unreliable. Our car is used so much that it must be charged every day, this was a big problem for us. Must mention however that the service center responded well and the issue was rectified. The gear selector absolutely sucks, it is laggy and a complete Faf to use. The car on many occasions has refused to go from Neutral to Drive. This is a problem that fixed by switching the car on and off multiple times.
These are largely very basic issues which shouldn’t play on any owners mind. It was so bad at one point that the car would be at the service center twice a month for some issue or the other. The frequency of these minor niggles has reduced, but I cant say that I’m fully confident. This brings me to the drivetrain, spoiler alert, my complains continue.

Drivetrain:
They say that electric cars give less problems than ice cars due to less moving parts, that’s absolutely accurate, but when the problems come, oh boy they’re big. The car had a full battery swap at around 50k kms. I should mention again, that this was done under the battery’s eight year warranty and at no cost. The range of the car which was always a measly 180-200kms has dropped down to 130-150 on a single charge! After 50k kms! This decision was taken after the car had broken down in the middle of the road close to home and wasn’t moving at all. A conversation with the towing driver revealed that he pics up Nexon EVs quite often. The question I bring up is that if EVs are supposed to save the environment, then how does replacing a battery, which is the main component of an EV at 50k kms become feasible for anybody?

Additional Thoughts:
After reading so many articles about the poor reliability of Tata cars and having a poor experience myself I can’t help but feel like Tata Motors is becoming like the Land Rover of the Indian automotive industry. Because reliability aside the product is actually pretty great.
I do believe that Tata motors is going to be a phenomenon in the Indian automotive sector, they will be number one in the near future, they just need to work on the reliability of their cars. The car is still used extensively by the entire family, and it has improved over time. Also, have the reassurance of a great service experience with the local dealers.
Finally my thoughts on electric vehicles as a whole. Right now I have little belief that the future is entirely electric. I don’t see these cars (mostly the smaller battery vehicles) having a usable range after 6-7 years. Additionally, I don’t see the resale value of these cars being anything strong. The initial purchase premium, the issues which are generally only going to be big ones, and of the already mentioned negligible resale value, I don’t think electric vehicles save owners any money, its an illusion being pushed onto consumers, because at the end of the day you won’t be shelling out 5k for a top up every couple of weeks. A car's purpose is to move from point A to point B, I’ve learned that my next car will do that to perfection before it tries to save me any money. Buy a car for what it is now, not for any promise in the future.

P.S
I wrote this about a month back and the last couple of weeks have shown that this EV stuff was a huge bubble with large slowdowns worldwide. EVs need time to develop, it’s a while away. I am bearish on EVs for now and am fully bullish on hybrids, consumers seem to be reflecting similar thoughts.

[ferrarirules]

Originally Posted by Karthik.guru

1. What options does my friend have to deal with this? I've already suggested that he can try requesting discounts or repairs on good-will basis, reach out to the regional team or resort to social media.

He can try escalating to the regional team and try to get goodwill warranty as this is not a common failure

2. Is this a common issue? I found few posts on the forum about issues with the AC and some videos on Youtube of similar issues with a Tiago/Tigor EV.

We have not heard of any premature AC failures of initial model Nexon EVs in our EV group. There are many which are now more than 3 years old.

3. Why is the compressor for a Nexon EV so expensive? The equivalent part for a petrol or diesel costs ~20k.
Cheers!

It is an electric compressor rather than a belt driven one in an ICE car that might be the reason.

One question - Did he not opt for the extended warranty or he has clocked more than 1.5 lakh kms?

[Karthik.guru]

I think I understand why they are expensive now, high voltage motors combined with low production numbers. And since it has to deal with high voltage, I would not really be able to trust any aftermarket option, regardless of how well reputed the manufacturer might be. At least not for the time being!

Originally Posted by toothless

..Its about 7% of the ex-showroom cost of a new Nexon EV Creative Plus MR!

This did not occur to me, and you are absolutely correct! Between 5% to 7% based on trim, that is one very expensive compressor!

Originally Posted by ferrarirules

He can try escalating to the regional team and try to get goodwill warranty as this is not a common failure

I have shared some contact details of the regional team with him that I could find online. Thank you!

One question - Did he not opt for the extended warranty or he has clocked more than 1.5 lakh kms?

Well, funny story there. He has always opted for extended warranty for cars him or his family have ever owned. But since he's had a pretty fuss free experience over the last 3 years, and for most of their previous cars they have never had any issues or major expenses and the extended coverage went unused, he did not opt for the extended warranty for his Nexon. Yes he is cursing himself now on an hourly basis . And considering that this is not a common issue, I guess he just got unlucky this time.
He has clocked 73k, 90% urban commutes.

[ferrarirules]

Originally Posted by Luke Menzes

I wrote this about a month back and the last couple of weeks have shown that this EV stuff was a huge bubble with large slowdowns worldwide. EVs need time to develop, it’s a while away. I am bearish on EVs for now and am fully bullish on hybrids, consumers seem to be reflecting similar thoughts.

You were one of the early adopter of a technology which is around 10 years old in the world and 5 years old in the country. I know people who have bought E20 (it had its share of shortcomings) and they call themselves pioneers as they tried to forefront the change this country needs. Early adopter cannot get a niggle free product.

Nexon EV was Tata's first foray into EV space, there were bound to be short comings and problems. But from what I know Tata has given special care to the EV owners and made sure warranty replacements were honoured without issues. They even got onto calls with initial owners to know their feedback and incorporate them their next versions of the car.

Given that you have driven 82,000 kms, you would have easily recovered Rs. 3,00,000 in running cost which would have definitely covered the additional payment you made for the car.

Finally hybrids are not the answer, it is a 25 year old technology. If it was the answer, EU, US would have promoted it like crazy but they never did because the gains that hybrids bring over an ICE vehicle in emissions are minuscule.

Finally from an Indian context, Toyota is not democratizing the hybrid technology for mass market. It is still limited to Rs. 23 lakh car (Top end Toyota Hyryder) which is as expensive as a diesel Creta (Comes with ADAS and better interiors)

[vj_v3]

Originally Posted by DigitalOne

Tire Companies Love EVs

As per the video, EV tires have a big influence on the range of an EV. So highrange EV tires cost much more (almost 50%) than comparable ICE tires.

Also, since EVs are heavier and they have a very high acceleration, tires wear out faster and thus tire replacements are needed 20% sooner.

I am getting quite skeptical these days whether EVs are really 'sustainable' as they make them out to be.

https://www.Youtube.com/watch?v=4GACM-IZsZ4&t=617s

In a way, all these feel like propaganda videos since the real life experience has been completely different atleast for the budget ev's that most of us buy here in india. I will not comment about the performance EV's since i have no experience.

I personally know a Nexon EV owner who changed tyres at 1.2L kms. Mind you this is not a case of someone using beaten up tyres to extract more out of it. He replaced as soon as the tyre thread life was over.

Theory is that the tyres have been outlasting their ICE countersparts primarily due to reduced braking because once you are an EV driver you will pick up the skill of using regen to slow down instead of using the brakes in 80% of the cases. This also leads to super long brake pad life. For the record, the same person has not replaced his brake pads so far. In my ICE car, i would have replaced brake pads atleast 3 times in 120K kms.


Also see this video i came across a few days ago... I admit that the tyres on this car are badly beaten up and should be replaced immediately but we can see that if the tyres last even half of what his car has done, thats way more than a typical ICE car. So, i would take all the tyres wear out faster, tyre pollution by EV videos storming the internet with a pinch of salt atleast for the budget EV use case in India.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOWAG6x5I98

And about the EV tyres costing more, there is nothing like that. The nexon's and tigor's and tiago's come with regular tyres from the factory. Its just that some tyre manufacturers are jumping in on the opportunity and launching low resistance tyres bla bla like apollo amperion etc. which are slightly higher priced but as a EV owner myself and knowing people who have purchased the amperion, i have not heard of any major difference in range due to the claimed low resistance tyres etc... Whenever i have to replace the tyres, i will just go and replace with the regular tyres again.

[DigitalOne]

Originally Posted by vj_v3

In a way, all these feel like propaganda videos

....So, i would take all the tyres wear out faster, tyre pollution by EV videos storming the internet with a pinch of salt atleast for the budget EV use case in India.

Thanks for your perspective. The video that I posted is from CNBC, one of US leading business media companies, which is rated as mostly factual and 'left-leaning' which in US would typically mean pro-EVs. So I wouldn't classify this video as propaganda.

However, as you rightly point it out, the case in India with budget EVs like Nexon or Tiago may be quite different to the Teslas in the US.

[mally2]

I keep hearing conflicting news, one one side Nexon Ev gen 1 owners have used the tyres for over 1.5L km and Ionic 5 owners tyres run out in 30k kms, not sure which data points to accept as the norm

[electric_eel]

Originally Posted by mally2

I keep hearing conflicting news, one one side Nexon Ev gen 1 owners have used the tyres for over 1.5L km and Ionic 5 owners tyres run out in 30k kms, not sure which data points to accept as the norm

I think this entire tyre study makes no sense. And I do not think regen is going to improve your tyre life. It might improve your brake pad because you are using it less. From the perspective of the tyre the additional wear and tear during braking comes from the frictional force/tractional force exerted by the road on the tyre, not by the brake pad or the regen force.

The problem with the 1.5 L km tyre user is that you are selectively picking from one of the earliest adopters of EV. He will definitely be driving better than an average ICE user and will see an advantage. He might also have adapted his driving to make the EV more efficient and therefore should be seeing better tyre life as a result of this.

So I think all these so called studies are useless when it comes to understanding whether EV's actually eat up tyre faster or not.

[KA20NexonEV]

Originally Posted by ferrarirules

Any update on this issue? Are you still facing the same problem?

Had left my car with TATA Service for 4 days and they have now confirmed that the battery needs replacement (under warranty) . They have ordered the same and is expected to arrive in 10 days. I have collected my car and have been using it now as I do not have any issues till SOC drops to 15% . I feel, all EV owners should monitor the charging and discharging curves on a regular basis and should take their cars down to <5% SOC once a month at least. One of the symptom of possible battery issue is the sudden jump in SOC while charging and the other is sudden drop in SOC at lower SOC levels. In my case, If I had not let the battery drop below 15% , I would have never known that there was a issue with my battery. I hope, I wont face this issue after battery replacement. Please find below the SOC sudden drops and jumps:

[BHPjunkie]

Originally Posted by KA20NexonEV

Had left my car with TATA Service for 4 days and they have now confirmed that the battery needs replacement (under warranty) . They have ordered the same and is expected to arrive in 10 days. I have collected my car and have been using it now as I do not have any issues till SOC drops to 15% . I feel, all EV owners should monitor the charging and discharging curves on a regular basis and should take their cars down to <5% SOC once a month at least. One of the symptom of possible battery issue is the sudden jump in SOC while charging and the other is sudden drop in SOC at lower SOC levels. In my case, If I had not let the battery drop below 15% , I would have never known that there was a issue with my battery. I hope, I wont face this issue after battery replacement. Please find below the SOC sudden drops and jumps:

There sure is an issue with the SOC dropping seen in the screenshot shared. I have not faced any issue while driving the vehicle till 10% SOC till date except once last week. However while charging my vehicle, the last 10% is generally charged in the same pattern as seen in your image viz. 10% in like 20-30 mins. Should I be worried?

[KA20NexonEV]

Originally Posted by BHPjunkie

There sure is an issue with the SOC dropping seen in the screenshot shared. I have not faced any issue while driving the vehicle till 10% SOC till date except once last week. However while charging my vehicle, the last 10% is generally charged in the same pattern as seen in your image viz. 10% in like 20-30 mins. Should I be worried?

10% of charge usually should take around 60 minutes to charge on a slow charger. My car was going from 0% to 15% within 15 minutes and from 90% to 100% in 4 minutes. It was also discharging from 15% to 0% within 5 kms. I feel you should take your car below 5% and observe the range you get. It will be safe to try this out near your house, near a TATA service centre or near a charging station when the traffic is minimum or on a holiday. In the likely event of possible battery damage the discharge will be so rapid that you might only get 3 kms out of the last 10%. Keep the towing hook attached and also a towing belt ready. Calling TATA road side assistance is the only best option in case your vehicle stalls.

[Auto spawn]

My car broke down yesterday and got towed to the service centre after displaying critical alert at 10% SOC it shifted from D to N. Thank god the tempo behind me braked on time or it would’ve turned into a horrific incident.

Didn’t Tata come up with a software update for the same?

This also happened to me back in 2021 when the car was new. At that time I was told to charge full till 100% every time which I have been following religiously. I rarely even fastcharge.

[Eco_boost]

Hello guys, just wanted to ask if the Z connect subscription is worth renewing? It’s asking for 3528₹ for a year.

[navinmra]

Originally Posted by Eco_boost

Hello guys, just wanted to ask if the Z connect subscription is worth renewing? It’s asking for 3528₹ for a year.

I’m just wrapping my 1st year complementary subscription in a few days and plan to renew it. I find it particularly useful on a few fronts:
1. Tells me SOC especially when it’s slow charging in the basement and saves me from going down and manually checking every time
2. Tells me the location of the car whenever I’ve given it for Valet parking.
3. Gives me lots of data to help compare journeys (and driving styles, drive modes, Regen settings etc)

Can you live without it? Yes. I didn’t have it for the past 3 decades on any of my previous cars. But having used it for a year, it grows on you.