[Nissan1180]

Originally Posted by subuiyer

Clearly all the expensive, imported solar panels seem to be doing half the job and not fit for our context. Seems like a lot of wasted energy/money to me.

Why are Indian scientists/engineers (numbering > the population of bottom 100 countries) not inventing/building material that convert both light and heat into electricity? Clearly an opportunity to be exploited?

Unfortunately, even the scientists at the world's leading solar energy research institutes cannot change the laws of Physics. With silicon based solar cells, the maximum efficiency that you can achieve is about 30%. That's dictated by physics. You can get more by stacking multiple cells in tandem, but then the cost of electricity becomes uncompetitive. Contrary to what you have said, solar cells are not expensive at all these days and the power cost is now down to about $0.02 per kWh in some recent auctions. That's cheaper than coal powered power plants.

Solar thermal is an established technique, but it cannot compete with Silicon. It requires much more than a cell, has more O&M associated with it and is not cost competitive. Here's a site that describes the basic principle of how a solar cell works. You could have a look if you're interested. There's no way in which the infrared (IR) component of the radiation (which heats things up) can be harvested efficiently because the available materials do not generate electrons when irradiated with IR light. You could build synthetic materials and fill up pages of academic journals, but translating that success on large area, industrially manufactured products requires decades. Even Graphene, which was the supposed wonder-material that could do everything from substituting steel to becoming commonplace in electronic circuits, is having a hard time finding viable applications, despite being worked upon for 2 decades.

[hangover]

Originally Posted by Nissan1180

Unfortunately, even the scientists at the world's leading solar energy research institutes cannot change the laws

The sun does not get switched off at night. Scientists are looking at the wrong end of the telescope. And doing wrong research.

Radiant energy ( which is harmless to living beings) is hitting the earth 24 hours a day. The amount that hits earth is the same irrespective of cloud cover or being on the night portion of the earth post sundown.

Thats what we need to tap. It is available 24x7x365 days.

Forget about storing unused solar power in batteries. Let Elon Musk waste money on his giant lithium battery factory.

We must Focus on large capacitors. Store that power as static electricity and release it when needed.

Or if that's too much work, drill down 6000 feet to the earth's crust. Pump in water, get super heated steam out. Run a turbine from any old thermal plant.

Guess which country has the world's largest fresh water supply.
No, not India, Brazil, or Russia.

It is Libya.

The drilled down 4000 feet (for oil actually) and found water. It is the amount of water that flows into the Nile each year times 1000.
Meaning the world will never run out of fresh water for a thousand years.

The water that comes out is already superheated. So they have giant cooling towers. They don't use it for power generation. They have enough oil.

It is sent via canals all over the country.

No jokes, please read up about the great man made river project.

In other words, radiant energy, electrostatic energy storage and geo thermal is the way to go.

[srishiva]

Originally Posted by hangover

It is Libya.

The drilled down 4000 feet (for oil actually) and found water. It is the amount of water that flows into the Nile each year times 1000.
Meaning the world will never run out of fresh water for a thousand years.

The water that comes out is already superheated. So they have giant cooling towers. They don't use it for power generation. They have enough oil.

It is sent via canals all over the country.

No jokes, please read up about the great man made river project.

In other words, radiant energy, electrostatic energy storage and geo thermal is the way to go.

Even in Karnataka, they wanted to drill 1km wells to get water each costing 12.5 crore ! Irony would be if it spills out oil

[Nissan1180]

Originally Posted by hangover

The sun does not get switched off at night. Scientists are looking at the wrong end of the telescope. And doing wrong research.

I'm sorry for saying this, but please avoid making such statements without understanding the energy landscape and research that's ongoing in different universities. If you read what is published by the International Energy Agency or other similar organizations, except for PV and wind, no other renewable resource is economically feasible and capacity additions are limited. Experimental plants are being set up (even today) for Tidal, Geothermal and other resource, but they will not become economically viable. I just attended the Asia Clean Energy Summit, and it is not just me (although I'm doing a PhD on this topic) but international experts who concurred about this.

Also, capacitors are impractical because the charge is stored on the surface. Batteries allow storing of charge in a more condensed manner. That's the reason why supercapacitors are not so popular these days. There are a lot of academic papers on the topic already, and you could read a few reviews that compare small supercapacitors with Li-Ion batteries. That's not practical and won't happen. Trivia: Elon Musk is not wasting his money. He started doing his PhD on Supercapacitors, realized they won't work and switched to something that can work. Thanks.

[hangover]

Originally Posted by srishiva

Even in Karnataka, they wanted to drill 1km wells to get water each costing 12.5 crore ! Irony would be if it spills out oil

Drill near kolar or Robertsonpet (nearby), next to a termite mound. You will find gold.

Generally, granite (that area) and igneous volcanic rocks have no oil.

Termites bring up gold micro nuggets.

Megasthenes, who documented Alexanders' invasion in 300 bc, wrote books on India. I think one was called "Indica".

He wrote about man eating ants that brought up gold. He said people would distract the ants with smoke and fire and simply pick up the gold shards. I guarantee he's talking about termite ants.

Get your drill truck and a JCB. I will show you the best locations. Half profit is yours, rest mine.

I also know the location of a hill full of sapphire stones in Kashmir. Our next project.

I know of a hill near Nandi containing a mineral called Tourmaline. Same sharing arrangements.

Cheers.

[hangover]

Originally Posted by Nissan1180

I'm sorry for saying this, but please avoid making such statements without understanding the energy landscape and research that's ongoing in different universities. If you read what is published by the International Energy Agency or other similar organizations, except for PV and wind, no other renewable resource is economically feasible and capacity additions are limited. Experimental plants are being set up (even today) for Tidal, Geothermal and other resource, but they will not become economically viable. I just attended the Asia Clean Energy Summit, and it is not just me (although I'm doing a PhD on this topic) but international experts who concurred about this.

Also, capacitors are impractical because the charge is stored on the surface. Batteries allow storing of charge in a more condensed manner. That's the reason why supercapacitors are not so popular these days. There are a lot of academic papers on the topic already, and you could read a few reviews that compare small supercapacitors with Li-Ion batteries. That's not practical and won't happen. Trivia: Elon Musk is not wasting his money. He started doing his PhD on Supercapacitors, realized they won't work and switched to something that can work. Thanks.

Firstly, please don't say sorry this or that. I'm just a rude punk.

You are probably aware of Nikola Tesla and his experiments with wireless energy transmission.
The tower at Wardencliffe and so on.

I've read all the patents he filed. He set up the world's first AC power plant at Niagara Falls.

The Tower was using the earth as a conductor to use the radiant suns energy, take it up the tower, some 150 feet high and sort of radiate that electricity.

Schematics for the circuits are in the public domain.

It was abandoned because it's sponsor, JPMorgan had misgivings about where to fix a meter. For collection. Of money.

If you read those patents, and his other writings, you will see that he mentions static electricity only. The same static you get when you rub a comb on a surface.

Check out about the "baghadad" battery. A 2000 year old artifact found in Iraq. Current academics (other than you) are merely rediscovering the wheel.

In Tibet, in the 1800's, British explorers wrote about people moving stone boulders using sounds from trumpets.

The first electric car was made in the mid 1800's. France I think.

So how come it didn't become a bestseller? It used lead acid batteries, but it was no different from the new Tesla cars. I think even general motors made their first EV in the 60's.

I read about a Russian scientist's theory last year. It seems oil in general is not a limited resource. More gets produced each day. Underground.

Oil is not zombified plant matter. It is produced due to tectonic movements. In certain types of rocks.

Oil as we know it now was supposedly discovered in Iran by the British in the late 1800's. Nubar Gulbakian was irans first oil minister and later millionaire.

However there are enough bedouin literature saying that the bedouin used oil since hundreds of years before. Not as petrol of course. As a cure for diseases.

A spoon of kerosene consumed daily prevents all forms of dead cells forming in your body. Cancer I mean.

Please also check Alexander Graham bell's best invention. He thought the phone was nothing.

He considered his litho phone or light modifying sound phone as his best invention. I made my own home grown experimental phone based on that. It didn't work.

Graham bell's one worked. He filed a patent.

We'll talk later.

Cheers.

[Holyghost]

Has any in Kerala with Grid Tie setup received any compensation for the Electricity exported to the grid?
What I was told initially was that the amount will be paid by October of every year and I was expecting some amount from the utility for 400+ units of electricity I exported in last one year. Instead, what I received was a Disconnection notice stating I have unpaid dues worth Rs 5000 for the electricity I used.

As a matter of fact, we never received a proper bill in last 1 year and this is the second time I am getting disconnection notice. We received a similar threat a few months back when the officials landed at the doorsteps to disconnect the electricity connection over unpaid dues. That time it was sorted after a visit to the AE's office who confirmed that there is no pending dues but there is some issue with the billing system which cannot recognize the Net meter system and the exported electricity units.

Looks like it is the same issue this time too. But it is really painful to have my senior citizen parents run around for these type of mess up by the utility officials. Dealing with these egoistic morons is not an easy task as they play every trick in their sleeves to cover up their mistakes and put the blame on us. If this continues, I think I should move to off-grid setup.

[shajoshi]

I have finally been able to get our 3 kW-P Solar PV rooftop on-grid plant commissioned at home in Pune. The process took 8 months in all and I used the turnkey services of a local vendor (Bhagwat Energy) in building the plant and getting all the required permissions from MEDA and MSEDCL. We have used Phocos 5 kW spec inverter and 10 panels. Total project cost was 3.2 Lakh including galvanized fabrication for the panels, inverter, 3 earthing bores and all DB panels and wiring till the meter, net meters and approvals.

MSEDCL staff really do not cooperate for the approvals, and made our person run for pillar to post to get approvals for over 3 months, although all papers were in order. If the government is serious about this they have to cut the red tape for most people will not have the passion and patience to endure with their current process.

It is generating about 12 kW-h of power every day starting from 11-Nov which more than meets our needs.

[bigman]

I was chatting with my cousin, he has a couple of solar panels connected to charge an inverter battery setup. He mentioned that he has to cut the mains power to get the inverter battery etc charging off the solar panels during the day and then flicks the mains power on in the evening/overnight so the mains power can be used.

Is there some sort of automatic switch/jugaad that will make use of the solar power when its being generated and automatically switch over to mains when the solar panel output drops out?

[Holyghost]

Originally Posted by bigman

I was chatting with my cousin, he has a couple of solar panels connected to charge an inverter battery setup. He mentioned that he has to cut the mains power to get the inverter battery etc charging off the solar panels during the day and then flicks the mains power on in the evening/overnight so the mains power can be used.

Is there some sort of automatic switch/jugaad that will make use of the solar power when its being generated and automatically switch over to mains when the solar panel output drops out?

Your friend has to do that because the solar setup itself might be a jugaad. You have two option. Either get a proper Solar Inverter which will automatically switch from mains to solar for charging and switches back to mains when solar power is not available. Another option is to get a solar converter which does the same thing automatically by switching off the mains and allows the batteries to charge from solar and switches back to the mains when solar power is low (the currently available converters from SuKam are low power models which supports only 1 or 2 panels). The best option is to buy the proper solar inverter.

[ecenandu]

Originally Posted by ecenandu

Went for 5 KW. 3.3 Lakhs after subsidy.

Attachment 1584345

So, here are the stats after 13 months.

For 5 months, we had to pay for excess consumption (86,74,140,115,44 Units) - ₹1369.
Rest 8 months we paid ₹95 each month - ₹760.

Total solar production(from solar inverter statistics) - 6554 Units
Excess consumption - 459 Units.

Total electricity consumption for 13 months - 6554 + 459 = 7013 Units.

I used the above maths because, right now there is no excess solar export to the grid, deficit of 30 Units as per the KSEB net meter.

Here comes the million dollar question, how much did we save.

Monthly bill without solar with avg consumption of 539.5 Units - ₹4510.

Total electricity bill amount (with out solar) for 13 months - 4510 * 13 - ₹58,630.

Total electricity bill paid by us (with solar) for 13 months - ₹2129

Long story short, SAVINGS FOR 13 MONTHS - ₹56,501 .

The savings is large because for electricity consumption of 500 Units and above, we have to pay ₹7.5 per unit.

[RSimonS]

How do you all clean the panels?
What is the frequency of cleaning?
How tedious is the cleaning work?

Thanks in advance

[shajoshi]

Originally Posted by RSimonS

1. How do you all clean the panels?
2. What is the frequency of cleaning?
3. How tedious is the cleaning work?

Answers:
1. We clean with water and rubber glass wiper. We have a fabricated walkway around our solar panels on the terrace.
2. About once a month - depends on dust deposition in your area
3. Takes about 10 minutes of work

Cleaning is essential in a dusty country like ours. There is a 20% increase in generation vs previous day after cleaning the panels.

[PGA]

Friends I need some technical advice. I am getting installed a 5HP solar submersible water pump at my farm, under Govt subsidy scheme for micro irrigation system. It is 3 phase AC pump. Qty 16 panels of 315W have been installed. AC DC conversion takes by MPPT VFD800-10A inverter. The system is being installed as a turnkey project by Kirloskar Industries.

I want to power other small needs such as charging batteries, running some fans and bulbs at my farm when the water pump is not in use. My farm is not connected to govt power supply. Presently I have a small single phase generator connected to a 600VA inverter and battery to meet my needs at the farm.

My queries are as under

- How can I connect the solar output to existing inverter/battery setup, what additional equipment do I need to buy. Should I tap DC output from the panels (combined DC output from panels will be in the region of 650V on peak sunlight day) or AC output after solar inverter (since I will be tapping a single phase, how will I get the neutral) I need to run max three fans and five 9W LEDs.

- I have a cool room to store harvested produce, I was wondering if I could install an ac in that room to increase longevity of the stored produce. Is it possible to run this ac with envisaged system. The system is expected to run only during day time so I do not incur additional expenditure of installing a huge battery bank to run ac at this moment in time.

- What impact can be expected on the existing 12V, 150AH battery will it be able to take daily charging and evening discharging cycle or do I need to buy some special type of battery.

Regards

[Holyghost]

Originally Posted by PGA

Friends I need some technical advice. I am getting installed a 5HP solar submersible water pump at my farm, under Govt subsidy scheme for micro irrigation system. It is 3 phase AC pump. Qty 16 panels of 315W have been installed. AC DC conversion takes by MPPT VFD800-10A inverter.

- How can I connect the solar output to existing inverter/battery setup, what additional equipment do I need to buy. Should I tap DC output from the panels (combined DC output from panels will be in the region of 650V on peak sunlight day) or AC output after solar inverter (since I will be tapping a single phase, how will I get the neutral) I need to run max three fans and five 9W LEDs.

- I have a cool room to store harvested produce, I was wondering if I could install an ac in that room to increase longevity of the stored produce. Is it possible to run this ac with envisaged system. The system is expected to run only during day time so I do not incur additional expenditure of installing a huge battery bank to run ac at this moment in time.

- What impact can be expected on the existing 12V, 150AH battery will it be able to take daily charging and evening discharging cycle or do I need to buy some special type of battery.

Regards

I do not know the specifics of the MPPT inverter you are using. I will need more details about the inverter. Assuming it is a normal 5KW 480v 3 Phase inverter, you can use any one phase to power your LED lights and fans. Not all inverters supports too much differences in power usage across the phases. So if you plan to add more appliance, ensure you distribute the load across all phases.

Since it is a 5KW Solar System, it does have the capacity to run an AC, but again the limiting factor here is your Inverter. I am assuming the inverter may not be able to power an AC in one phase. If it had been a 1 phase 5KW inverter, it would have easily supported an efficient AC (which do not have too much surge current). Do check your inverter specifications and see the max power it can handle on each phase.

Your another option is to add another 1 phase 5KW Solar Inverter and use a Changeover Switch to divert the panel output to your motor or the Inverter as required. You need to verify how the panels are wired for the existing inverter. Good MPPT inverters uses high voltages and the panels need to be wired in series. High end MPPT inverters will have multiple MPPT input trackers. So if you have 2 inputs, Each input will have 8 Panels wired in series. So the secondary inverter you are buying should support the same voltages from the panels.
If all the panels are wired in series, we are looking at peak Voltage of >750V and so your inverter should support the input of 750V DC.

And, 5KW is too large for a single 12V 150AH battery. 5KW power will completely charge a 150AH 12V battery in 30mins. Your battery can never accept that much rate of current. 5KW solar systems generally use 48V battery banks with 8 or more batteries to fully utilize the available solar power.
However, as I said earlier, if your inverter has 2 MPPT trackers, the panels will be wired as 2 seperate banks. In this case you can divert just 1 bank (8 panels) of 2.5KW of power to your secondary inverter. You will need only a MPPT inverter with 2.5 - 3KW capacity which will generally support 24V battery banks. A good 2.5KW Offline Solar Inverter which can support surge currents upto 2x the rated power can easily run a 1.5T AC as long as you have proper sunlight.