[lemedico]

Welcome back to another fruitful DIY on my car. This time, it is something that no Tata service centre would recommend doing, as it does not come under any scheduled service intervals. I believe the word "lifetime" fluid is a scam, only to cause deliberate mechanical failure and then profitable repairs to the company. No fluid can last a lifetime of the vehicle's running. All deteriorate and putting in new oils has never backfired on me.

The AMT kit on the Tata cars is manufactured by Magnetti Marelli. There is a reservoir which holds around 500ml of fluid. Thankfully, it is easy to access on the Tiago/Tigor. I have not seen the engine bays of the Punch or Nexon, but I am assuming they are not too different and therefore the steps of this DIY would be applicable to these two cars as well. I wouldn't think it is any different on the BS4/6 cars either. Mine is the 2021 BS6 though.



I also believe owners of Maruti AMT/AGS would also benefit from this DIY.

Inspired by this thread, and fed up with my current driving experience, I went about arranging the bits needed to change the oil.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...t-gearbox.html (Explained: How to repair a defective AMT gearbox)

Thankfully, Tata Motors happily sold me a container of 1 litre AMT hydraulic fluid marketed by Tata-Petronas. The owner's manual recommends Petronas Tutela CS Speed, but this packaging merely says Petronas and nothing else. It got me a bit worried but I went ahead with it anyway.









Tools needed:



1. The car, parked for a few hours with the bonnet opened. If you open the driver's door, the AMT gets primed and the fluid from the reservoir is sucked internally. You need to avoid that by either opening the bonnet in advance or disconnecting the 12v battery in advance. Or like I did, open the bonnet from the passenger's side.

2. A can of AMT Hydraulic oil. This cost me Rs. 903 from Tata, for 1 litre. They don't sell smaller volumes.

3. A long flat-head screwdriver

4. A long rubber tube. I used a medical thing called a Ryle's Tube.

5. A 50cc syringe.

6. Gloves

7. A container to collect the waste oil for environmentally safe disposal.

8. Someone to record your shenanigans!


Steps:

Unscrew the reservoir's cap. Clean it and put it aside.





There is a black plastic tube thing (it is not a filter for sure) in the reservoir, which won't let your rubber tube go all the way to the bottom. Use a flat-head screwdriver to pry it out. Clean it and put it aside.



Snake your rubber tube all the way to the bottom of the reservoir.



Aspirate the oil and collect it in a container. Have a look at the condition and colour of it, then wonder why does the company not make this part of regular servicing!?





Measure how much you took out



Replace the same volume of fresh oil into the reservoir.



Inspect the level, it should hover at the MAX mark on the reservoir.

Put back the black plastic in by hand.

Put the cap back on



Clean up, shut the bonnet and take it for a test drive.


NOTE This DIY cannot take out every last drop of old oil from the AMT kit. I plan to repeat the process in a few days. This would let the remaining old and the new oils mix. I would then remove all of it from the reservoir again and top it up with fresh one. Hopefully, by this dilution method, I would get all the cruddy stuff out.



My personal recommendation, pair this DIY with a gear oil change. I am doing it today as part of my yearly oil service. I'll update the thread when it is done, to let you know just how smooth the drives have become now.

Have a look at this YouTube video I recorded. It will make things easier to understand.

https://youtu.be/TJ-2On8_uUg

This video was my inspiration, uploaded by a polite bloke from Pakistan:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAUhRqqiefk

Happy DIYing!

[libranof1987]

Thanks for sharing, lemedico.

My 2018 Tiago XZA went in for the four year service (albeit at ~12k kms) in June. I was pleasantly surprised when the SA himself mentioned AMT gear oil change.

Originally Posted by lemedico

This time, it is something that no Tata service centre would recommend doing, as it does not come under any scheduled service intervals.

This is what my invoice says, per the TMSC app. I've been charged 842.4 for it; and interestingly, no separate labor charge. Think they just topped it up, or actually replaced it?

I see no difference in the AMT behaviour post the service, for whatever that is worth.

[lemedico]

Originally Posted by libranof1987

Thanks for sharing, lemedico.

My 2018 Tiago XZA went in for the four year service (albeit at ~12k kms) in June. I was pleasantly surprised when the SA himself mentioned AMT gear oil change.



This is what my invoice says, per the TMSC app. I've been charged 842.4 for it; and interestingly, no separate labor charge. Think they just topped it up, or actually replaced it?

I see no difference in the AMT behaviour post the service, for whatever that is worth.

Attachment 2507624

I'm not sure what the part number actually denotes.

Rule of thumb, take a half day off work and supervise all car services keenly. Walk around the garage floor and inspect every little thing. Only then would you be sure of the jobs carried out, and the parts/oils uses.

For ₹850, I'm assuming they opened up a 1 litre can. Therfore, you are entitled to bringing home the remainder!

[lemedico]

TMGO NEXTGEN 80EP 1LX20 looks like gearbox oil, not AMT kit hydraulic oil. Correct me if I'm wrong

[HappyWheels]

Good one. I also hate this "for life" sealed approach - no way! Great way to plan for failure and revenue from that.

How many kms has your vehicle run? Did not see it mentioned.

[lemedico]

Originally Posted by HappyWheels

Good one. I also hate this "for life" sealed approach - no way! Great way to plan for failure and revenue from that.

How many kms has your vehicle run? Did not see it mentioned.

16500 kms today. I've just had the gear oil done as well and I can jump with joy to say it's become a properly smooth drive now. No jerks!

[Jeroen]

Good job. A few thoughts. The main wear is of course in the master and slave cilinder. That is where you will find the deposits, crud and so on. There is no real circulation through either.

You might want to check a factory workshop manual, but the best way to do this is flush out the system. There should be some sort of bleed valve on or near the slave cilinder. You should still extract the old fluid as you did, but then push some of it through the system by pressuring the system and opening the bleed valve. Very similar to flushing and bleeding brake fluid.


Jeroen

[lemedico]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Good job. A few thoughts. The main wear is of course in the master and slave cilinder. That is where you will find the deposits, crud and so on. There is no real circulation through either.

You might want to check a factory workshop manual, but the best way to do this is flush out the system. There should be some sort of bleed valve on or near the slave cilinder. You should still extract the old fluid as you did, but then push some of it through the system by pressuring the system and opening the bleed valve. Very similar to flushing and bleeding brake fluid.


Jeroen

Thank you!

Unfortunately, that would be way beyond a home DIY job, and certainly out of my engineering capability!

I have infact spoken to my Tata garage, and two FNGs. They've all been very skeptical to dismantle and disassemble the whole kit. I think I'll leave it at the easy oil swaps for now and perhaps give your method a go in a subsequent service

[Massivesiege]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Good job. A few thoughts. The main wear is of course in the master and slave cilinder. That is where you will find the deposits, crud and so on. There is no real circulation through either.

You might want to check a factory workshop manual, but the best way to do this is flush out the system. There should be some sort of bleed valve on or near the slave cilinder. You should still extract the old fluid as you did, but then push some of it through the system by pressuring the system and opening the bleed valve. Very similar to flushing and bleeding brake fluid.


Jeroen

I find it suprising how people allude to the fact that a Factory Service Manual/ Workshop Manual exists for Tata cars when there is no such thing. The fact of the matter is these cars are only made for the Indian market, and the Indian regulation doesn't require them to provide any of that sort of literature.

This is obviously different if the car was in fact a Nissan Micra or one of the Suzuki thats sold worldwide which comes with the factory service manual and everything in between to service the cars in a DIY fashion as the world market has regulation that requires these literature to be printed and available to the consumer.

Originally Posted by lemedico

16500 kms today. I've just had the gear oil done as well and I can jump with joy to say it's become a properly smooth drive now. No jerks!

Thanks for taking the time to make this post with pictures. Do you mind also stating how to change the transaxle oil on these transmissions? The lack of any service manual on Tata cars has annoyed me and postponed any attempt of doing it myself for too long (the car has 25k km currently). I have however bought 2 liter of the Shell Spirax 80w-90 GL4 a few years ago and kept procrastinating until I saw this post.

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[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by lemedico

TMGO NEXTGEN 80EP 1LX20 looks like gearbox oil, not AMT kit hydraulic oil. Correct me if I'm wrong

I had another look and iI thought the same. You really want to make sure you get proper hydraulic oil, not gearbox oil.

Originally Posted by Massivesiege

I find it suprising how people allude to the fact that a Factory Service Manual/ Workshop Manual exists for Tata cars when there is no such thing. The fact of the matter is these cars are only made for the Indian market, and the Indian regulation doesn't require them to provide any of that sort of literature.

This is obviously different if the car was in fact a Nissan Micra or one of the Suzuki thats sold worldwide which comes with the factory service manual and everything in between to service the cars in a DIY fashion as the world market has regulation that requires these literature to be printed and available to the consumer.

Lucky you, to have this immense knowledge and insights. Unfortunately, I don’t. In fact there is far more I don’t know, than I do know!

I am not Indian, but I can tell you that factory workshop manuals are not available to the consumer in western countries due to legislation. But in many places you can find these manuals either in paper format or in digital format.

Especially on older cars. Almost all modern cars it’s fully digital and integrated in the manufacturer analytical equipment. Which is actually making it more difficult to get hold of a comprehensive workshop manual.

It’s a demand and supply thing I believe. In certain countries were lots of people do DIY on their cars, you are likely to find access to good literature, manuals and tools. And vice versa.

Still, it is likely that these manuals do exist for the Indian market. Indian car mechanics might need to refer to them too sometimes, for educational purposes or so.

As part of my hobbies I will always try and get my hand on any literature and or manual on anything I have driven, flown or sailed. So I have manuals and sales brochures of all my cars. Same on the planes I have piloted and ships I have been a crew member on. E.g. just about all documentation that exist on Boeing 747-400 I have managed to collect, via Ebay, talking to pilots, going through the KLM scrap bin at Schiphol airport, aviation events etc. I have the AOM, the trainingsmanuals, the parts manuals, the technical bulletins and even some of the Boeing 747-400 sales literature. Note that Boeing has not been in the habit of making their documentation available to the public. But if you are interested, you will be able to source it!

I might be wrong but don’t we have a thread on manuals for Indian cars?

Jeroen

Jeroen

[Massivesiege]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

I had another look and iI thought the same. You really want to make sure you get proper hydraulic oil, not gearbox oil.

It’s a demand and supply thing I believe. In certain countries were lots of people do DIY on their cars, you are likely to find access to good literature, manuals and tools. And vice versa.

Still, it is likely that these manuals do exist for the Indian market. Indian car mechanics might need to refer to them too sometimes, for educational purposes or so.
Jeroen

I have come to similar conclusion of demand and supply as you have and the DIY culture being much less in this country.I do believe this literature exist but available only to Authorised service center and nowhere else,I have tried in vain to get the FSM for the tiago and never found anything for my efforts.

The FSM/Workshop manual for maruti cars are available digitally and printed form with part numbers from the service center itself, but not for tata cars,i attritbuted this stark absence to the fact that most of the maruti cars are sold worldwide unlike its tata counterpart

[lemedico]

Originally Posted by Massivesiege

I have come to similar conclusion of demand and supply as you have and the DIY culture being much less in this country.I do believe this literature exist but available only to Authorised service center and nowhere else,I have tried in vain to get the FSM for the tiago and never found anything for my efforts.

The FSM/Workshop manual for maruti cars are available digitally and printed form with part numbers from the service center itself, but not for tata cars,i attritbuted this stark absence to the fact that most of the maruti cars are sold worldwide unlike its tata counterpart

You're right about the DIY culture being a rare one. Doing car stuff in your driveway, yourself, makes the neighbours think you're poor, and can't afford to send your driver to the company for the jobs. Same goes for the odd jobs around the house. The maids talk shit, and can't fathom their sahab had his hands down the the water cistern to fix the leaky flush.

[ObsessedByFIAT]

Great DIY @lemedico and thanks for sharing the details as well!

I have a Renault Kwid EasyR and would surely love to change the AMT oil. The service center says the same old story of "sealed for life", however I do not trust them on this.

If anyone has details/ knowledge of how this process can be carried out on Kwid, I would love to hear from you!

Thank you!

[sagarpadaki]

Getting service/workshop manuals of Tata cars is not available to public for purchase. I always wanted the workshop manual for my 2018 Tiago AMT, specifically to get knowledge about the AMT System.

[Reinhard]

Originally Posted by lemedico

Inspired by this thread, and fed up with my current driving experience, I went about arranging the bits needed to change the oil.

It will for sure. In fact I have been contemplating this fluid replacement since a month on the Ignis. With your thread, I have got the final nudge. I could easily see that the fluid is all black inside that tank.

Originally Posted by lemedico

Thankfully, Tata Motors happily sold me a container of 1 litre AMT hydraulic fluid marketed by Tata-Petronas. The owner's manual recommends Petronas Tutela CS Speed, but this packaging merely says Petronas and nothing else. It got me a bit worried but I went ahead with it anyway.

How much of the fluid did actually get filled in the tank during replacement? All of it? Or you have some left? I'm not able to find any clear mention of the AMT Actuator fluid tank capacity / recommended fill volume (like it is usually mentioned for engine oil for example).
Maruti sells about 550ml of (I suspect) the same 75W oil, made by same - Petronas - with Ecstar stickering, for a price MORE than that of Tata's for 1 Liter . Talk of abusing market monopoly.
Maruti AMT Actuator Fluid

Originally Posted by lemedico

Aspirate the oil and collect it in a container. Have a look at the condition and colour of it, then wonder why does the company not make this part of regular servicing!?

But if you look at the image of the owner manual / fluid specifications that you have included in the 1st post - there is a clear instruction below the table - to check & topup the AMT actuator fluid at every service. So I think its well addressed. If ASCs are not doing it - they are still learning, and losing out on easy pickings to fleece money from customers!


Thanks for sharing this thread - I look forward to my own DIY in coming days for this. Do post about your experience in shifts since the change was done.
Love following your DIYs. Rating the thread 5 stars.