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Originally Posted by Ashley2 Safe interval may be safe for a engine but not for the customer, considering the service costs its incurring.
If the ISBe engine is safe for only about 8000 kms (its 9000 and not 8000 - typo error by me in earlier post) aganist the competition engines which offers upto 18000 kms, do I need to tell anything about ISBe.
Decide it on! |
Safe is also for the customer, since the customer wants his vehicle on the road earning money, rather than sitting in the garage getting repaired.
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Originally Posted by Ashley2 Are you sure about this statement.
In tamil there is something in grammer called - Vanja Puzhalchi Ani - Meaning, you will praise one part of the world by degrading the other. This is of similar note.
The 6BT's definitely lasted for more than 4 lakh kilometers.
If at all they were to be overhauled in 2 lks km, that's the worst possible design of a engine for a Commercial Vehicle - Thank God its not of that kind..
The average annual running mileage of a Intercity bus is 2 lks kms.
Is this means that the engine to be over hauled once in a year?
Let ISBe be better but not at the expense of 6BT's. ![LOL](https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/images/smilies/LOL.png) |
By overhaul, I dont mean that in the sense you see from passenger car. Here the 2lakh/4lakh overhauls is more like a scheduled service for the engine component.
Both 6BT and latest ISBe need major overhaul at 10 Lakh kilometers only.
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Originally Posted by Ashley2
OK let me tell you the complete story. Version 1 :Cummins when developed B series it was 5.9 litre (6 cylinder version) was a DI engine, termed as 6BT. Version 2 :This 6BT when later took a electronic avatar with Bosch it was termed as ISB - Interact System B series. Version3:Then in the same older 5.9 litre engine capacity was increased upto 6.7 litre and was called as 6.7B. This engine is was DI only. Version4:Finally when this 6.7 litre engine fitted with the Common rail system, gave birth to ISBe.
Hope the history is clear. The version 2 and version 3 never came to India and so its unlikely that many of us will be knowing.
These are the reasons for my statement both 6BT and ISBe are one and the same except for the Common rail system. Of course you will have increased power and torque but still the overall life ( read it as service) will be same. |
I am sorry, but your version history is a bit skewed.
The B series engines have been around since the 80s now. The old 5.9L B-series engines has had a very long history now.
Version1:Inititally it was a mechanical control 12valve operation, till the late ninties.
Version2: Electronic contrtol introduced in the late nineties to meet new Emission norms making it the first ISB.
Version3: The ISB went 24valve, making it an extremely rare multivalve head which still used push rods. A few more changes too were introduced.
Version4: The ISB went common rail, which boosted the power upwards of 300hp if used in light duty trucks used mainly for pick-up trucks in America.
Version5: In mid 2000s the newer generation ISB6.7 engines were introduced, which were a big change from the older engines. Like I have mentioned these used only about 40% of the parts from the older ISB engines. Both bore and stroke were changed resulting in an increase in capacity to 6.7L.
Other further changes were also mentioned by me.
Few DI non CR version of the ISB6.7 were produced in its early years, mostly for the American market. When the ISB6.7 was introduced in the European market, they were only in CR form.
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Originally Posted by Ashley2 I think the cries of BMTC is not heard by you!
Needless to say about MTC |
I never said, "nobody" is complaining. I said "not many" are complaining. That is borne out of the fact that Tata enjoys 60%+ market share in the heavy CV segment, almost all of which uses Cummins 6BT engines. If you look at sales this year, Tata is the only CV maker who has maintained growth momentum still racking up close to 10% growth over last year, while everybody else are seeing sales falling.
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Originally Posted by Ashley2 Hope I have explained in a detailed manner. |
At the end of the day, the contention was whether the ISB engines we get in India, that is the ISB6.7 of Cummins, and the 6BT engine we get in India, which is basically a engine from the late 90's with some mild modifications, are the same or not.
I think, everybody will agree that the ISB is a massive improvement over the 6BT we get in India.
True, their service performance may not have improved vastly. If you hinge on that one fact for eternity and based on it call those two engines the same, I am sorry, but I disagree.
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Originally Posted by Ashley2 If a smaller capacity engine and a larger capacity engine producing the same power and torque values and if you say the the smaller engine(here spelt by you as lighter engine) is better I would completely disagree with you.
Just take the example of Multi axle coaches of Volvo and Mercedes Benz
In a broader spec you will see both the power and torque to be matching each other: Volvo:
Power - 340 hp
Torque - 1600Nm Mecedes:
Power - 360 hp
Torque - 1600Nm.
But the real secret lies in the Cubic capacity of these engines. The earlier is 9 litre and the later is 12 litre engine. In a longer perspective the higher capacity engine producing same figures as lower capacity engine will have a higher efficiency/overall life.(MB engines are marginally frugal to volvo too - Unbelievable right?)
And only for the want of higher capacity( not as higher power/torque) Volvo is working to bring their 11 litre engines (may even be higher also). It should be noted that even in the current avatar they last as much as 1 million kms with out major over haul.But Volvo wants even more ![Thumbs Up](https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/images/smilies/thumbs up.png)
Hope my statement of higher the engine capacity better the life of the engine life is clear - means ISBe 6.7 cannot ideally match 8 litre engines.
But there should be better reasons(Emission norms etc) than told by you - matching power and torque values. |
You always see broad strokes and not the details.
I said the ISB6.7 matches the capabilities of older generation 8L engines. I never said that it is better than a present gen 8L engine. And here by capabilities I dont just mean peak torque and power figures. Thus it allows trucks which earlier required 8L engines, rather than shifting to a new 8L engine, to use a 6.7L engine which is both lighter and more fuel efficient.
There is almost no substitute for brute cubic capacity, when the rest is largely the same. Thus the 12L Mercedes can provide the same peak torque and power figures in a more relaxed state of tune, resulting in less stress and good mileage compared to the 9L Volvo. I am not at all surprised by that.
The bigger engine also allows the Merc to maintain a flat torque value over a wider range of rpm. I have always maintained, with my limited experience of travelling in Mercs, that it is much faster and smoother than the Volvo is in India. The larger engine allows the Merc to do so.
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Originally Posted by Ashley2 All these are not under the scope of trucks in India. |
The 40,000km oil change interval for the Prima trucks is correct.