[SAE40 in veins]

Originally Posted by silversteed

TheARUN, I'm assuming that you're referring to the pic of the bus I'd posted above. Yes, it's been introduced a year ago, and as AlphaKilo mentioned, the first bus that I've seen with this body, is of ARC Tours.

The lights are fine, pretty bright too. However, I'm not sure if their spread is as good as the conventional headlamps, for I've seen the bus cruising with additional lamps on.

Hi Guys ... There seems to be an uncanny resemblance to 'Prima Headlamps' as i see..... Seems like body builders have moved on from 'Safari' lamps to 'Prima' Lamps

[silversteed]

Originally Posted by SAE40 in veins

Hi Guys ... There seems to be an uncanny resemblance to 'Prima Headlamps' as i see..... Seems like body builders have moved on from 'Safari' lamps to 'Prima' Lamps

I don't see any resemblance:


The Prima's headlamps have straight edges while the one in the bus have curved edges

[julupani]

There is a sort of resemblance, or lets say the Prakash unit is "inspired" by the Prima one. They have sort of curved out the edges and added a sort of pointy chinese end to the cluster. You can see a single normal unit and one projector unit along with the indicators. Though the Prima unit has a sort of aggressiveness the Prakash unit lacks.

[silversteed]

Originally Posted by julupani

There is a sort of resemblance, or lets say the Prakash unit is "inspired" by the Prima one. They have sort of curved out the edges and added a sort of pointy chinese end to the cluster. You can see a single normal unit and one projector unit along with the indicators. Though the Prima unit has a sort of aggressiveness the Prakash unit lacks.

Yeah, the Prakash unit is "inspired" by the Prima unit. And now i notice that the entire HL+FL setup is similar to that in the Prima, though the FL in the former is round

The Prima HL looks aggressive, and also reeks of high quality, while the Prakash one looks very much like a cheap, Chinese make

[SAE40 in veins]

I still feel the reflector unit is from Prima and the outer transparent shell is the only R&D by Prakash. It is not an easy task to develop and tool up headlamps just by a body builder as it doesn't make economic sense

[AlphaKilo]

Originally Posted by silversteed

Yeah, the Prakash unit is "inspired" by the Prima unit. And now i notice that the entire HL+FL setup is similar to that in the Prima, though the FL in the former is round

The Prima HL looks aggressive, and also reeks of high quality, while the Prakash one looks very much like a cheap, Chinese make

Originally Posted by SAE40 in veins

I still feel the reflector unit is from Prima and the outer transparent shell is the only R&D by Prakash. It is not an easy task to develop and tool up headlamps just by a body builder as it doesn't make economic sense

come on sir. Its like comparing apples and oranges. Where is Prima and where is prakash in terms of quality. But, in this model I see the number of headlights lesser than the one on ARC. They had a couple of lights(full headlight size) in the radiator area and they were riding with all lights on(yes of course in highbeam). The lights were: projectors+highbeam, Highbeams on lights in the radiator zone, fog lamps, and the headlamp assist. It was like watching a stadium lamping system on road. (pic ref. Post no. 280 pg. 19)

[julupani]

Originally Posted by SAE40 in veins

I still feel the reflector unit is from Prima and the outer transparent shell is the only R&D by Prakash. It is not an easy task to develop and tool up headlamps just by a body builder as it doesn't make economic sense

I think there are quite a few competent auto component manufacturers in India with R&D capabilities. Thus the headlamp unit may have been sourced from such a manufacturer, and may be its the same people who make the Prima headlamp thus the resemblance.

[SAE40 in veins]

Originally Posted by AlphaKilo

come on sir. Its like comparing apples and oranges. Where is Prima and where is prakash in terms of quality. But, in this model I see the number of headlights lesser than the one on ARC. They had a couple of lights(full headlight size) in the radiator area and they were riding with all lights on(yes of course in highbeam). The lights were: projectors+highbeam, Highbeams on lights in the radiator zone, fog lamps, and the headlamp assist. It was like watching a stadium lamping system on road. (pic ref. Post no. 280 pg. 19)

I hope the boffins in Prakash have read AS 052 rev II of bus body code where these things are stipulated. Fitting Xenons/Flashlamps etc is easy. What's difficult is to adhere to standards for headlamps, which is why 'Headlamp' assemblies take over a year to develop in case of facelifts in the case of passener cars. Its actually known as a 'long lead time item'.

[AlphaKilo]

Originally Posted by SAE40 in veins

I hope the boffins in Prakash have read AS 052 rev II of bus body code where these things are stipulated. Fitting Xenons/Flashlamps etc is easy. What's difficult is to adhere to standards for headlamps, which is why 'Headlamp' assemblies take over a year to develop in case of facelifts in the case of passener cars. Its actually known as a 'long lead time item'.

You are correct! But even if a body builder follows these regulations, once they handover the bus to the customer, the customer does his own modifications like the extra lamps and so on. How can that be stopped unless the morons understand the reality!

[Ashley2]

Originally Posted by SAE40 in veins

I still feel the reflector unit is from Prima and the outer transparent shell is the only R&D by Prakash. It is not an easy task to develop and tool up headlamps just by a body builder as it doesn't make economic sense

This is always possible!
Even for Prima the headlamp assy will be a property item of the supplier who have developed.
The requirements will be given by the OEM's and the design will be done by the supplier (etc Luman/Lumax).
But even in this method, the tool cost should be born by the OEM's and here in this case the tool cost will be born by SMK and the design would have been executed by the supplier.

[julupani]

Originally Posted by Ashley2

This is always possible!
Even for Prima the headlamp assy will be a property item of the supplier who have developed.
The requirements will be given by the OEM's and the design will be done by the supplier (etc Luman/Lumax).
But even in this method, the tool cost should be born by the OEM's and here in this case the tool cost will be born by SMK and the design would have been executed by the supplier.

I am not sure that IPR in this case will be with the supplier, as light assembles are supposed to be unique for certain vehicles, and the manufacturer would like to hold on to the rights to prevent it getting copied.

Also about the design of the cluster, I think it would have been done by the design firm, in this case Bertone of Italy, and not the supplier. The headlamp supplier would probably only have to design a reflector etc to be put in the kind of design. Thus if anybody, the IPR in this case of the headlamp designs would be shared by Bertone and TML.

With parts that are shared across vehicles, IPR is kept by the suppliers.

[SAE40 in veins]

Originally Posted by julupani

I am not sure that IPR in this case will be with the supplier, as light assembles are supposed to be unique for certain vehicles, and the manufacturer would like to hold on to the rights to prevent it getting copied.

With parts that are shared across vehicles, IPR is kept by the suppliers.

It's even simpler. Whoever pays the development cost keeps the IPR. In either case, the development is done by suppliers like Lumax and not OEMs like Tatas or ALL. Bertone only specifies the exterior look and not luminous intensity or other functionalities of the headlamp assy. If IPR is with the supplier, to compensate for the slow sales of the Prima, they may 'slightly modify' the same and offer it to any Tom, Dick or Prakash so that the development cost spent upfront expecting huge volumes for the Prima is compensated to a certain extent.

[julupani]

Originally Posted by SAE40 in veins

It's even simpler. Whoever pays the development cost keeps the IPR. In either case, the development is done by suppliers like Lumax and not OEMs like Tatas or ALL. Bertone only specifies the exterior look and not luminous intensity or other functionalities of the headlamp assy. If IPR is with the supplier, to compensate for the slow sales of the Prima, they may 'slightly modify' the same and offer it to any Tom, Dick or Prakash so that the development cost spent upfront expecting huge volumes for the Prima is compensated to a certain extent.

I think Tata would care only about the exterior design IPR and not the reflector design or luminous intensity or whatever other technical features of the headlamp.

By the way, Tata do most likely have kept the IPR as they have been using the same design headlights on a few of their Hispano buses out in Europe. I am not sure, but I think the Intea and the Xerux bus models use the same headlights as the Prima. I think they use quite a few other things that were developed originally for the Prima by TMETC.

[Ashley2]

Got this unique Irizar body built Tata 1613 in Vijayavada - Sri Kanagadurga Temple.This is a private bus managed by the temple devasthanam and was surprised to see that they got bodies built from Irizar. I have seen atleast 4 of them.
(The guy in pic poses as if he is been shooted)

[julupani]

Is this a new bus?? Something seems odd about the Tata cowl. It seems to have been modified in some way.