[Trapezio]

Originally Posted by julupani

I am sorry mate, but either you have mistyped or are a bit out of touch. All commercial vehicles are now BSIII or higher, since last October.

And also, I dont think there are any 12ton trucks available any more either. Those probably died out half a decade ago. The only 12ton truck is probably the 12ton 4x4 truck made for the defence/paramilitary forces.

I am not denying that all trucks are BS III. But in reality only some are actually BS III. The rest was not available for booking (atleast in March when I had to search for a friend). Officially all are BS III but not all were shifted overnight. In short, not all BS II trucks were available in BS-III. If someone can enlighten it will be great.

Surely, you would have seen the Tata 1109?

[julupani]

Well, I beleive almost all classes of trucks and buses available in the BSII era are now available in the BSIII avatars. Though quite a few of them have had to resort to a heart transplant.

For example, the Tata 1109 is now available as the Tata 1112. And as far as I know the 1112 BSIII has been available for quite some time before the introduction of BSIII in India.

Among the major Tata engines lost after BSIII intro are:

1. Tata 497SP in its 70hp version
2. Tata 497 in its 90hp version
3. Tata 697 in its 130hp version
4. Tata Cummins 6BT in its 150/160hp version

[Trapezio]

Thats true. But I thought the Tata 1112 which was available earlier was still a BS II. I suppose they have already upgraded it to BS III.

Originally Posted by julupani

Among the major Tata engines lost after BSIII intro are:

1. Tata 497SP in its 70hp version
2. Tata 497 in its 90hp version
3. Tata 697 in its 130hp version
4. Tata Cummins 6BT in its 150/160hp version

This is cool. But I think the 6BT did finally make it as a BS III. Again, not so clear on this one.

[Transsenger]

TML's LPT1112 was launched when the major 11 cities switched over to BS3 in 2005, along with 410, 912, 712 etc. Now when the BS3 is extended all over India, the 497TCIC 90Hp engine is stopped. Hence 1109 is replaced by 1112.
Intrestingly 410 is sold as 407 itself here in Kerala (not sure about other states)! And 6BT finally made it to BS3 but after a complete makeover.

Further currently you find the following models in 12T GVW category:
1. AL Ecomet 1212 (120HP)
2. SML Isuzu IS12T (150HP)

In 16T GVW segement;
1. TML 1616LPT (160HP 697TCIC ECU Rotary) or LPT1613 (130HP Cummins)
2. AL 1616iL (160HP Inline FIP) or 1616XL (168HP EDC RotaryFIP)
3. Eicher 20.16 (150HP RotaryFIP)

[julupani]

The 120hp 497 and the 100hp 497SP engines in BSIII settings were available before October last year as well. The 120hp 497engine in EuroIII format has been on offer in export markets for a lot longer than that. Similarly the 410 has been available as the 407Turbo for quite some while now. Even now the 410 is not used as a brand, but its called the 407Turbo.

Also the 6BT engines were always available in BSIII, the challenge was to meet BSIII norms at a low enough power output. Only a few months back has a 135hp 6BT BSIII engine come into production, the 180 and 230hp versions were always ready to shift to BSIII. But there is no 150/160hp BSIII version yet.

As of now, I think the list of diesel BSIII engines for Tata in India is,
1. 497SP, 100hp
2. 497, 120hp
3. 697TCIC 160hp
4. 6BT 135hp, 177hp and 230hp
5. Cummins ISBe 240hp/270hp/285hp
6. Cummins ISLe 280hp (am not sure of this)

Any additions or modifications to this list??? Also a similar list of Leyland would be helpful.

[Trapezio]

Originally Posted by julupani

As of now, I think the list of diesel BSIII engines for Tata in India is,
1. 497SP, 100hp
2. 497, 120hp
3. 697TCIC 160hp
4. 6BT 135hp, 177hp and 230hp
5. Cummins ISBe 240hp/270hp/285hp
6. Cummins ISLe 280hp (am not sure of this)

Any additions or modifications to this list??? Also a similar list of Leyland would be helpful.

Did they start using the ISLe in India? I doubt.

For AL, there are three engines that meet BS3
1. 6ETI with 160hp
2. HA57 with 180hp/225hp
3. HA4CTI with 120hp

@Transsenger
It is the same everywhere with 410 getting sold as 410. Kerala had a decent run for the 712 also, much ahead of other states.

Do you have any more info on this Isuzu 12T? Does Swaraj have a 16 ton truck? I know they were working on one.

[Transsenger]

AL should have one more engine in BS3 lot i.e the 6DTI3N EDC a 160HP varient which was there from 2005. Not sure whether they have stopped it!

Others;
H4CTI EDC - 120HP used in Stag & Lynx, Ecomet range
HA 6 ETK - 160 HP with Inline FIP (unique...only AL has this)
HA 57L 135 EDC - ECU controlled RotaryFIP - 180HP
HA 57L 165 CRS - Common rail system - 225HP
Most other earlier versions of 6DTI/6ETI are still available in Export models.

[julupani]

Originally Posted by Trapezio

Did they start using the ISLe in India? I doubt.

@Transsenger
It is the same everywhere with 410 getting sold as 410. Kerala had a decent run for the 712 also, much ahead of other states.

I think the Prima 4028 and 4928 use the ISLe engines. I am sure the early Prima tractors did, but afterwards when they moved to the ISBe for the tippers, I am not sure whether they moved over to the ISBe for the tractors as well.

I think the 410 are actually sold as 407 turbo branding.

Originally Posted by Transsenger

H4CTI EDC - 120HP used in Stag & Lynx, Ecomet range
HA 6 ETK - 160 HP with Inline FIP (unique...only AL has this)
HA 57L 135 EDC - ECU controlled RotaryFIP - 180HP
HA 57L 165 CRS - Common rail system - 225HP
Most other earlier versions of 6DTI/6ETI are still available in Export models.

Something I notice, 3 different 6cylinder engine configs from Leyland and each one of them use a different injection mechanism, Inline FIP, Rotary FIP and Common rail injection. Are these three of the same capacity or different??

Don't they have any 6-cylinder engines around 130hp???

Also what about BS4 ready engines from Leyland??

[Trapezio]

@Transsenger

The 6DTi was available. It is gone now.

[Ashley2]

Originally Posted by julupani

Something I notice, 3 different 6cylinder engine configs from Leyland and each one of them use a different injection mechanism, Inline FIP, Rotary FIP and Common rail injection. Are these three of the same capacity or different??

Same capacity only

Originally Posted by julupani

Don't they have any 6-cylinder engines around 130hp???

That was eliminated post October'10.

Originally Posted by julupani

Also what about BS4 ready engines from Leyland??

165 HP SCR(already 150 nos supplied to MTC) 230 HP CRS SCR should be ready.

[julupani]

Originally Posted by Ashley2

Same capacity only

That was eliminated post October'10.

165 HP SCR(already 150 nos supplied to MTC) 230 HP CRS SCR should be ready.

So, as of now there is no real competition to the LPT1613 and the LP/LPO1512 models from Tata. Probably why Tata thought of introducing a LPT2513.

Also I remember there being an engine config in the 210hp range. Is that no longer available either??

As for BS4 version, so Leyland are continuing with the same H-series engines with an SCR system to achieve tighter emission norms. Unlike Tata who seem to be shifting to the newer ISBe engines, presently using the 4cylinder ISBe in 160hp config and the 6cylinder ISBe in 240hp config.

What about 4cylinder BSIV engines from Leyland?? I think these as of now are more important in India, as there is more chance that an L/ICV will be registered in the big cities. I think Tata's 497TCIC is already been launched in BSIV avatar.

[Trapezio]

Does the SE 1613 still exist? Or is it limited to 1616 only?

[julupani]

It still exists, but its called a SFC 1613TC. And its only available with the Tata Cummins engine. But the model has been discontinued from the tipper line, that is there is no SK1613 anymore.

Though I doubt this model racks up a lot of sales, compared to the LP models.

[Trapezio]

^^Okay. Thanks. Didn't get the second part though. Are you suggesting that perhaps the LP models dominates the sales these days?

[julupani]

Completely dominate. There are only two semi forward models available now, the SFC 1613TC and the SK1616TCIC. Overall, I doubt these two models would even reach the 5% of total Tata sales.