[x-o-b]

I'm looking for a small tipper truck (1.5 to 3 ton payload capacity) for ferrying sand/timber/construction material on a hilly unmetalled road (read it as off-road) and looking forward to some suggestions.

1. Tata Yodha 1700 4X4 (has no tipper facility but can be added as aftermarket job perhaps)
2. Tata 407 4X4 (the 4X4 version is not available in tipper version)
3. Mahindra Pick-up 1.7 FB 4X4

I have zeroed in on the above vehicles but am confused on addition of the following accessories, namely:-

• Differential Locks:

Now, I have read here in this very forum about Auto DL (the eaton type), Manual DL(the Lamda type) and LSD (not sure about availability). I know I need a DL for sure (to get off of regular intervals of deep muck where just a 4WD isn't sufficient). I enquired the local dealerships here (in Sikkim) and most of them had no clue about what I was talking about. Where can I source these from (I can take care of installation myself)? Which type of DL is best for load carrying off-roaders? Do I need to install them on both the front and rear differentials?

• 4X4

I'd prefer a Tata 407 type tipper but the 4x4 version with tipper body is nowhere to be found. If I install a differential lock, would that compensate for the lack of a 4WD? Is a DL for Tata 407 available at all?

• After market tipping modifications

I was planning to modify a normal (stock) flatbed vehicle into a tipper (dumper) in a body shop. The two options I was given were PTO or a battery operated hydraulic power pack (this one was easier to source). I am not sure which one to opt for (for lack of knowledge). The PTO for Mahindra seems to be non-existent. Ideally, my wishful thinking full of technical flaws I'm sure, would be to drive the tipping piston with the power steering pump (using a hydraulic changeover valve perhaps). Could anyone with experience in this matter provide some helpful pointers please.

My ideal vehicle would be this one:-

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/comme...road-trip.html (A rare Tata 407 4x4 | 1300 km road trip)

Alas, I could find none anywhere (OLX, Facebook Marketplace, Team-BHP Classified). Where are these second hand small trucks listed anyways?

Sorry for the long post. Thank you.

[Black_Star]

Originally Posted by x-o-b

My ideal vehicle would be this one:-

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/comme...road-trip.html (A rare Tata 407 4x4 | 1300 km road trip)

Alas, I could find none anywhere (OLX, Facebook Marketplace, Team-BHP Classified). Where are these second hand small trucks listed anyways?

Sorry for the long post. Thank you.

Your best bet would be an SML 4x4, it can probably handle most things you can throw at it and further modification will be easy. And well you can ask around in the Black Cats if they have one lying around, jokes aside you can probably buy it new or get it through army auctions, or find someone who has already bought it through it.

[Apex1815]

-Ferrying Sand/Construction Material is a different application than ferrying
Timber therefore Truck bodies are supposed to be different.

- To my knowledge currently no such Mini Truck is available in the Market which gives you Tipping option witihin 1.5 ~3 Ton Payload capacity.

- All you will get is a Pickup Truck for your Timber hauling application. That may not be suitable for hauling Sand/Construction material.

[x-o-b]

Originally Posted by Apex1815

-Ferrying Sand/Construction Material is a different application than ferrying
Timber ..... That may not be suitable for hauling Sand/Construction material.

Thanks. Well, let's say I require a small form-factor truck for transporting sand only, then.

[condor]

Originally Posted by Apex1815

- All you will get is a Pickup Truck for your Timber hauling application. That may not be suitable for hauling Sand/Construction material.

Timber for construction would not be the timber from logging trees. It would be more like scaffolding logs, and sheets that are often used for roof moulding. Hence I think a tipper will do just fine. Tippers for regular use have a body similar to regular trucks, and not the mining tippers.

*

OP may need to look at a vehicle rated more than 3 tonnes to be able to carry 3 tonnes of material in the terrain that has been mentioned. A Bolero FB or Yodha may not help, and the 404 may not be available in open market. However, I have seen a couple of posts on SM for 4x4 407's on sale. Very rare vehicle, though.

[x-o-b]

Originally Posted by condor

Timber for construction would not be the timber from logging trees. It would be more like scaffolding logs, and sheets that are often used for roof moulding.

You said it, thanks.

Originally Posted by condor

OP may need to look at a vehicle rated more than 3 tonnes to be able to carry 3 tonnes of material in the terrain that has been mentioned. A Bolero FB or Yodha may not help, and the 404 may not be available in open market. However, I have seen a couple of posts on SM for 4x4 407's on sale. Very rare vehicle, though.

I forgot to mention - narrow roads. A wider track/longer wheelbase vehicle is, unfortunately, not an option for me.

PS:

1. Can a differential locker be installed onto the Tata Yodha?
2. The transfer case on the Yodha is chain driven vs Mahindra's directly-meshed gear driven. Which one's better, under my circumstances?

[Cresterk]

Originally Posted by x-o-b

I have zeroed in on the above vehicles but am confused on addition of the following accessories, namely:-

• Differential Locks:

Now, I have read here in this very forum about Auto DL (the eaton type), Manual DL(the Lamda type) and LSD (not sure about availability). I know I need a DL for sure (to get off of regular intervals of deep muck where just a 4WD isn't sufficient).

I enquired the local dealerships here (in Sikkim) and most of them had no clue about what I was talking about. Where can I source these from (I can take care of installation myself)? Which type of DL is best for load carrying off-roaders? Do I need to install them on both the front and rear differentials?[list][list]

To choose differential locks, we must first understand the differential.

https://youtu.be/yYAw79386WI?si=DR3roDyZi_7UxkCx&t=120

This old engineering video explains it better than any youtuber could.

The gist of it is that a differential is needed for cars because otherwise it wouldn't be able to make turns properly on road.
FWD, RWD, 4x4, it doesn't matter. Just like how every car has tyres, everything from the humble Alto to a Creta to a Landcruiser to a Ferrari to a bus has a differential on whichever axle is being powered.

The differential is an old school mechanical device. It doesn't know whether you are trying to turn or go straight. There are no sensors or computers here. It just sends the power to whichever wheel has the least resistance. This is great for when you are driving on the road but while offroading, if you end up with one driven wheel having no traction or being up in the air, then the differential will just send all the power there. However much you push the accelerator, it will just result in that wheel spinning while the others stubbornly stay put.
And thus you are stuck and can't move even though you have 3 other wheels on the ground.



And now come differential locks. Manual differential locks make the differential act like it doesn't exist. They force the wheels to spin at the same speed. Very inconvenient if you are trying to turn but a godsend when you are stuck. Now the wheel on the ground will be forced to spin at the same speed as the wheel with no traction.

A FWD or RWD car has 1 differential.

A part time or switchable 4x4 has 2 differentials. One on the front axle and one on the rear axle. Along with a transfer case on the driveshaft connecting the front and rear.


The transfer case is what allows you to select between RWD (2H) and 4WD (4H) along with low range gearing (4L) if it has one.

A full time 4x4 has 3 differentials. One in the front, one in the rear and in the middle.

You can add manual locks to all 3 of these differentials if you want to.


If you lock the rear differential, it will force both tyres on the rear axle to turn at the same speed. But if you end up in a situation where both rear tyres have no traction, you will be stuck.

If you lock the front differential, it will force both tyres on the rear axle to turn at the same speed. But if you end up in a situation where both front tyres have no traction, you will be stuck.

If you lock the center differential, it will force both front and rear axles to spin at same speed. Since the other 2 differentials are still open, it will force one rear wheel and one front wheel to rotate at the same speed. This can be any combination of front and rear wheels.

This is generally enough for most light offroading but a common obstacle we will face is one where 1 front wheel and 1 rear wheel diagonally opposite to each other will lose traction. In this case, we will be stuck since the center locked differential only forces either of the 2 wheels of both front and rear axles turn at the same speed. So the wheel without traction in the front and the wheel without traction in the back will spin freely at the exact same speed. Only problem is, since neither has traction, we are stuck despite the 2 other wheels being solidly on the ground and having plenty of grip.

Now here is the fun part. You can lock all of these differentials at the same time.

If you lock the center and the rear differential together, then you will force both rear wheels to turn at the same speed + force either of the front wheels to turn at the same speed to both the rear wheels.

Now you can only get stuck if both rear wheels and one front wheel loses traction. This is rare since you can't really balance a car on a single wheel.
Most of these low traction situations occur due to the unevenness of the ground which means the weight of the vehicle isn't distributed evenly across all 4 wheels.

You can add a lockable front differential as well and now you can only be stuck if all 4 wheels lose traction. This is generally not needed since 90% of the time if you don't have traction in 3 wheels, it means you won't have traction in the 4th wheel also. However, it can be useful when driving on sand dunes or mud and you just happen to have a rock under one front tyre.


Since the cars you listed are all old school, they will have a switchable 4x4 with a transfer case. A transfer case behaves like a locked center differential in 4H mode. This means you can just add a rear differential lock and be prepared to tackle almost anything that comes your way.

Limited slip differentials are for high speed purposes. They are for sports cars to not have a single wheel spinning uselessly when trying to accelerate hard on road.

You need to get a manually locking differential. They are the most effective offroad + the only ones which will withstand the heavy forces of a loaded truck for extended periods of time.

Good luck, I have always dreamt of leaving the white collar life behind for a while and driving an offroad truck as a job.

[x-o-b]

Originally Posted by Cresterk

This means you can just add a rear differential lock and be prepared to tackle almost anything that comes your way.

Very informative post, thank you. Well, to get back to my predicament:

1. Can a differential locker be installed onto the Tata Yodha?
2. The transfer case on the Yodha is chain driven vs Mahindra's directly-meshed gear driven. Which one's better, under my circumstances?