[avira_tk]

Naresh Goyal is a victim of the same system he massaged to perfection, the Mallya flight method failed in his case, he's right, there's no hope. The draconian law was put in place by someone who ended up in jail under it's provision, it's a political sledge hammer and in this country it'll forever be the case.

Originally Posted by TKMCE

I am one of those employees of one of the two employers being discussed here. I am owed a few lakhs in salary arrears and to add insult to injury had to pay another couple of lakhs to IT department after I got a demand notice that the tax which was deducted from me as TDS for some period was never paid to the government. My only option I was told if I don't want to pay up was to fight legally and I figured that it was cheaper to pay up - so I did. By that time, I had a stable income.

This was absolutely criminal, after they shake down ex employees for TDS which is not handled by the taxpayer, they turn around get the TDS dues from the bankruptcy proceeding. The unpaid starving employee isn't going to get a refund, despite all the smart ai crap they boast about.

Originally Posted by TKMCE

You can try to hide your financial difficulties from your little one. But can you stop your neighbors and others from talking? I still remember the shock when my son then barely 6 asked me one fine day - "Dad are you not getting your salary" and when I said yes I am, so as not to worry him, he told me PLEASE DONT LIE. A few of his schoolmates' parents had clearly briefed their kids about their friend's family situation. Especially in Kerala some people are happiest when they see others suffering!

I've interacted over dm with one fellow member from kerala and I just couldn't believe the amount of malice and envy I encountered, naturally our politically charged interaction would be against forum rules, but sometimes people don't understand the levels of psychotic hate for anyone doing well, or the glee when someone hits rock bottom. Another example was on the road tax thread, the gloating about his "friend" getting his vehicle seized, I can't imagine the plight of having a friend like this. Naturally he posted that the road to kerala was in great condition when it was it's absolute worst, leopards can't conceal their spots I guess.

[frewper]

Originally Posted by TKMCE

I am owed a few lakhs in salary arrears and to add insult to injury had to pay another couple of lakhs to IT department after I got a demand notice that the tax which was deducted from me as TDS for some period was never paid to the government. My only option I was told if I don't want to pay up was to fight legally and I figured that it was cheaper to pay up - so I did.

Are you freaking kidding me? The athorities came to you and made you pay the TDS when KF was not paying you salary in the first place?

Section 205 of the Income-tax Act prohibits recovery of tax from a taxpayer if tax is already deducted from his income by the deductor. A person cannot be called upon to pay tax if that tax was deductible from his income and such tax has been deducted. Further, according to Section 191 of the Act, a person is liable to pay tax directly (on his/her own) on salary income only if tax has not been deducted from the salary in the form of TDS.

As of today, you can file a complain against the accessing officer for pulling this fast one on you. There are provisions in law to do that. Getting your money back may not be possible though.

If you dont want to get involved in that, you may approach any of the respected youtuber and put your case forward with evidences. Atleast this practice will be exposed.

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by frewper

Are you freaking kidding me? The athorities came to you and made you pay the TDS when KF was not paying you salary in the first place?

What TKCME is stating is correct. That TDS is due from the employee {recipient of the income} for the time salaries were paid. The employer is depositing the TDS on behalf of the employee under eyes of the law. They, the IT dept., were not collecting taxes on salary not paid but on salary already paid. Despite section 205 it would not be worth the while for a single employee to go fight the system - the cost, harassment and effort are not worth it - he would first have to prove that the TDS was indeed deducted. I had a similar situation but with reference to service tax {the predecessor of GST} - a rather large sum if I dare add. Employees like TKCME suffered immensely. I agree with his observation that other employers within aviation exploited the desperation of the Kingfisher employees.

Originally Posted by frewper

As of today, you can file a complaint against the accessing officer for pulling this fast one on you. There are provisions in law to do that. Getting your money back may not be possible though. If you don't want to get involved in that, you may approach any of the respected Youtuber and put your case forward with evidence. At least this practice will be exposed.

Not quite as simple as that. What the IT assessing officer did was in accordance with law. Sympathy and empathy are not a part of their job description. From my experience of dealing with the Income Tax Dept he would not win such a case. Youtubers talk {a lot} but can't walk {at all}.

All,

Mallya got away with not depositing TDS deducted from his employee salaries. He got away with not depositing provident fund deducted. He even got away with not depositing TDS deducted at source on fees he paid to his suppliers; also service tax !! And yet for almost a year he was neither arrested nor hauled up. It pays to be a sitting MP of the ruling party. As simple as that. In the industry it is strongly believed that he was tipped off by his political colleagues about his imminent arrest, believed to be the following day, hence facilitating his flight to the UK. Non-deposit of TDS and worse non-deposit of PF are acts of omission that the authorities come crashing down on businesses instantly. But they chose to wait for over 12 months in case of Mallya. Each can draw his/her own conclusion.

Why the UK? Because UK has a clever set of interlinked laws that each by themselves seem normal but acting together create a safe haven for the uber rich escaping from the laws of their home country. That is why every Russian, Arab, African oligarch has a base in the UK.

I think readers will understand better now why those of us from this industry have zero sympathy for Goyal or Mallya. Goyal ran out of his political capital, simple as that.

No, Mr. Goyal, we don't want you to die in jail, not yet at least. We want you to stay healthy and serve the full sentence the Judge gives to you.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by frewper

Are you freaking kidding me? The athorities came to you and made you pay the TDS when KF was not paying you salary in the first place?

Yup, happened to me too as a vendor. Customer deducted TDS, but never paid to the government. At first my accounting firm asked me to pay it before filing. I too cited Section 205 of the Income Tax Act, and asked them to file anyway. And in December I got a demand notice with about 11% interest added.

Originally Posted by frewper

As of today, you can file a complain against the accessing officer for pulling this fast one on you. There are provisions in law to do that. Getting your money back may not be possible though.

So I asked the accounting firm to initiate these procedures. They told me we have to visit the IT department and file a complaint against the vendor. And this is going to be a long haul, and they too will charge me for the extra work involved. Basically, it will be like fighting a long legal battle. Meanwhile, the interest will keep accumulating. And there is no guarantee that the IT department will rule in my favor and exempt me from paying.

Yes, even though it was a very clear-cut case (the vendor had done the same to all vendors and all employees), there is no guarantee. Isn't it wonderful the ways of our amazing government? So I took a long breath and paid the already deducted TDS and moved on. I valued my time and peace of mind more than the TDS amount.

[m8002?]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Y
Yes, even though it was a very clear-cut case (the vendor had done the same to all vendors and all employees), there is no guarantee. Isn't it wonderful the ways of our amazing government? So I took a long breath and paid the already deducted TDS and moved on. I valued my time and peace of mind more than the TDS amount.

This is the standard operating procedure with every government department. You first pay up the demand ( even though it is very clear the error is on their side ) and then you talk/beg for corrections which has 99% chance of not happening.

It happened with the EB at my parent's place 10-12 years back. Instead of the usual 1K bill, they suddenly got a 5K bill one month. In spite of following up for correction, they did not correct it giving one excuse or another. And guess what, they cut the connection for non payment. Then my dad paid up to restore power. Followed up visiting the EB office for another 4-5 weeks with no results and then finally gave up.

[TheBigV]

Naresh goyal is also accused in fraud of Rs.538 crores with Canara Bank, which means he has robbed millions of tax payer's money. After all the accusations are accounted for, Goyal is actually getting far less than he deserves.

[rrsteer]

Reading about Naresh Goyal, Vijay Mallaya and their ilk, makes me think that if we don’t discover on the way to making money, that it’s worthless, because we have enough of it, then there’s something wrong with us…money is worth pursuing only if we don’t have it, and until we don’t have it.

I have also come to the conclusion that if a business is run for everyone except yourself, one will get such a lot of goodwill that nobody’s going to bring you or the business down. At least, I have never seen/heard or read of those kinds of businesses (or people) get into trouble.

[shortbread]

From what I read about the final days of Goyal controlled Jet, he had multiple opportunities to divest and transfer management to Etihad. But he stubbornly held on having no inkling to quit.

[SidTheChamp]

No one deserves such treatment in prison that too at advanced age. On humanitarian grounds, Naresh Goyal should be given bail so that he can be at better condition to live. He is not flight risk either. So why is not been given bail, beats me.

Many big industrialists have done shady business or broken the rules. Some have ran away, some are caught while many have managed at the 'right places' to keep themselves out of trouble. For eg. many of the biggest defaulters aren't having any actions against them.

Naresh Goyal's Jet airways was a fine airline. It was going great with awesome travel experience. But since the business has gone bust with money siphoned off being caught, he is now facing the music. He also tried to escape the country but after Mallaya incident, authorities became smarter and prevented that.

[itwasntme]

Originally Posted by SidTheChamp

He is not flight risk either. So why is not been given bail, beats me.
He also tried to escape the country but after Mallaya incident, authorities became smarter and prevented that.

Firstly, your statements are self-contradictory. Secondly, Naresh Goyal is most certainly a flight risk as he has UK & Dubai permanent residency.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...7.cms?from=mdr

[binand]

Originally Posted by SidTheChamp

No one deserves such treatment in prison that too at advanced age. On humanitarian grounds, Naresh Goyal should be given bail so that he can be at better condition to live.

About 75% of the approx 5 lakh prisoners in India are undertrials, of whom Naresh Goyal is just one. If we are moved by Mr. Goyal's story, then we should be asking for measures that work for all these people and not just for him.

[SidTheChamp]

Originally Posted by itwasntme

Firstly, your statements are self-contradictory. Secondly, Naresh Goyal is most certainly a flight risk as he has UK & Dubai permanent residency.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...7.cms?from=mdr

Well he couldn't escape when just investigations were going on. Because even at that stage authorities blocked him from flying abroad.
Now with current health and being undertrial with spotlight on him, can he just fly or escape abroad. Not likely.
There would be restrictions and watch on him.

Originally Posted by binand

About 75% of the approx 5 lakh prisoners in India are undertrials, of whom Naresh Goyal is just one. If we are moved by Mr. Goyal's story, then we should be asking for measures that work for all these people and not just for him.

Ideally yes. All undertrials should live in better facilities and particularly those who are aged and having ailments. There should be measures to improve conditions. This in fact is one of the reasons that Mallaya gives in UK courts to escape extradition to India.
If Naresh Goyal was of good health, he should be kept in prison. But as he is suffering from old age related ailments, he should be given better condition on humanitarian grounds.

[sudeepg]

Originally Posted by SidTheChamp

If Naresh Goyal was of good health, he should be kept in prison. But as he is suffering from old age related ailments, he should be given better condition on humanitarian grounds.

Don't forget the high probability that because of his misdeeds, many families cannot afford to make ends meet, secure their future, and pay for their ailing parents and bills.

In my eyes, he has to bear the consequences of his actions. I hope his health gets better, he is convicted of his crimes and he spends some serious time in prison. If many of his employees are going through severe hardships, there is no reason why he should be given better conditions!

[binand]

Originally Posted by SidTheChamp

Ideally yes. All undertrials should live in better facilities and particularly those who are aged and having ailments.[...]

As [Naresh Goyal] is suffering from old age related ailments, he should be given better condition on humanitarian grounds.

Am I reading this correct? That you agree in an ideal world all undertrials deserve better facilities, but it is not one so only Naresh Goyal does?

[SidTheChamp]

Originally Posted by sudeepg

Don't forget the high probability that because of his misdeeds, many families cannot afford to make ends meet, secure their future, and pay for their ailing parents and bills.

In my eyes, he has to bear the consequences of his actions. I hope his health gets better, he is convicted of his crimes and he spends some serious time in prison. If many of his employees are going through severe hardships, there is no reason why he should be given better conditions!

Yes. Totally agreed with your points

Originally Posted by binand

Am I reading this correct? That you agree in an ideal world all undertrials deserve better facilities, but it is not one so only Naresh Goyal does?

You misunderstood or twisted the statements.
Let me ask what you prefer.

Naresh Goyal should remain imprisoned and continue to suffer more in harsh conditions of prison while his wife lies in deathbed . This may result in further deterioration and suffering.

Anyway we are not the official judge , not have any power on this. The judge have decided what to do

https://www.hindustantimes.com/citie...518520725.html