[itisK]

Originally Posted by Ays7

Yes, the problem with this is once the person is arrested, the department shows no urgency to complete the trial. Trials have started in less than 10% of the cases. Numbers you will see on their websites of completed trials are ones which were slam dunk.

I totally agree with this. We can't allow the process to be the punishment in itself. But sadly, that has become the hallmark of our judicial system, and the various agencies.

However, I don't think it is appropriate to use terms like acquittal for undertrial cases.

[OffRoadFun]

Zero sympathy for this guy.
He rose through his "connections" in 80's and 90's, he was a small time travel agent (a friend of collegemate's father). Muzzled all competition through outrageous policies like minimum required number of years for an airline to be considered on certain routes/international routes.

Routed tax payer's money to overseas tax havens and has thousands of ex-employees of erstwhile Jet Airways not paid for months in salaries.

Just because he muzzled competition and had a dominant airline does not make him pioneer of aviation.

The more he rots in Arthur jail, less he rots in hell! Good for him.

If he misused the system to cheat, there should be no sympathy when NG is a victim of a dysfunctional system.

[OffRoadFun]

Originally Posted by Newtown

I will end with a short incident on a different note - Prior to Jet Airways Mr. Goyal used to be the GSA for a few airlines. Someone who was very close to me (since passed away) used to work in one of these GSAs. While working there he had suffered a massive heart attack and the entire state of affairs of his health was very complicated. I will just end it in one line - Everything was taken care of by Mr. Goyal and without his support the person would not have lived the next 35 years.

Completely irrelevant and in fact a possibly misleading anecdote. No human is perfect and no one is purely evil. What matters is what the dominant side of the character and dealings is. Even the worst violent criminals will have some incidents in life where they may be genuinely kind to someone. Even the Columbian drug dealers have used their money to help the needy (and that has given them support amongst masses unfortunately) but that does not make them any good.

Countless criminals can be seen indulging in the "welfare" of the masses masquerading as politicians but the fundamental flaw in seeing them as kind is they are stealing other people's money for that so called welfare which never ever belonged to them and the end goal of that welfare is almost invariably to get good name/goodwill to further increase their power and consequently ability to steal more of money from honest people/tax payers.

This deception is responsible for mass following of crooks like mining barons of Bellary or Veerappan which come to mind, although the list is by no means exhaustive or even close.

[fawad0222]

Hello Everyone,

Let me too give my two cents on the issue being discussed here but before that I want to share a verry sad news with all of you that one of my dear seniors, a cardiologist, about 60 yrs of age, held as genius by his colleagues and juniors, lost his life yesterday to a heart attack. So please all of you take care of your health.

Now coming to the issue, raised by GTO, the question has arisen, because there are doubts about whether he is really guilty. Its a systemic fault with our financial institutions, policing, enforcement agencies which today seem so indisputably compromised that its difficult to trust their intent and action. Also out judicial system has really become so inefficient that its almost non-existent in practice. So ideally what should have happened instead was:
1. A clean financial system where deserving both rich and poor get loans, after due diligence and where a system is in place to pick the danger signs early and action is taken quickly both in terms of help if deserving or given the boots.
2. A legal case is decided maximum in terms of months not decades and where bail is given until proven guilty.
3. The jails meet a minimum standard in terms of a place where humans live even if they are criminals.

Unfortunately in the absence of none of the above things, its difficult to say, what is right and what is wrong but one thing I am sure about is that Mr. N Goel should get proper medical care and case be decided soon.

Hope one day, the judicial system reforms become the burning electoral agenda. Amen!

regards

[Freespirit27]

Originally Posted by ishekk

In any non banana republic, there are courts and there is trial.

Assuming you mean the corollary, that is harsh and not warranted at all!

But the problem with new Indian laws like PMLA, UAPA is that person is assumed guilty till found innocent i.e till the trial concludes. And we all know that in a country like India, trial can take years to start & years to conclude.

What is the point of having courts & trial if accused is going to serve jail sentence even before being declared guilty. I find the Britishers were better here.

The sentences pronounced thereafter is often including the time served, which means they serve only the residual time, which is quite fair!
And of course there is the little detail that, the accused is given the option of bail, or not- depending on severity of offence or confidence of the court in evidences produced. So let us not get ahead of ourselves in offering sympathy when given a chance like the Mallyas, Nirav Modis, these buggers will be the first ones to scoot the country and then the same sympathisers will be the first ones cursing government how criminals were allowed to escape!

[ishekk]

Originally Posted by Freespirit27

The sentences pronounced thereafter is often including the time served, which means they serve only the residual time, which is quite fair!

And if that person is acquitted then are you going to return his lost years and career/business.

And of course there is the little detail that, the accused is given the option of bail, or not- depending on severity of offence or confidence of the court in evidences produced.

It has been explained multiple times in this thread how draconian PMLA is with respect to bail.

[HereticHermit]

Easy to feel sympathetic to an aging gentleman but in all probability he erred. In hindsight when these stalwarts are young and pushy, responsible corporate governance and fair audits are last thing on their mind and implementation agenda. Then they have a home run, feeling invincible till they come undone and overburdened judicial system becomes favorite whipping boy of paid, whosoever.
That is really crux of the matter in very few words.

[Newtown]

Originally Posted by OffRoadFun

Completely irrelevant and in fact a possibly misleading anecdote. ....
This deception is responsible for mass following of crooks like mining barons of Bellary or Veerappan which come to mind, although the list is by no means exhaustive or even close.

If it is your opinion that writing a fact on this forum is irrelevant and leads to deception, I leave that for you to deal with.

Maybe reading my post in its entirety rather than reacting to only what you wanted to, would help you calm down and bring you a better perspective.

[OffRoadFun]

Originally Posted by Newtown

If it is your opinion that writing a fact on this forum is irrelevant and leads to deception, I leave that for you to deal with.

Maybe reading my post in its entirety rather than reacting to only what you wanted to, would help you calm down and bring you a better perspective.

I do see you have mentioned is in fact truth and fact and you have mentioned both the aspects and which is perfectly fine.

I admit my statement is strong and a bit opinionated, no offense please.

[Freespirit27]

This sense of public justice or to say the ruling has to be publicly acceptable is overrated. Law and howsoever draconian would have been created for a use case scenario. If those scenarios or similar are repeated then the purpose is justified. That, it is misused is again a public opinion which has a judicial audit process available.
In the particular case there is little chance that the sentence is going to be less than the period in custody.
So yes, sympathy is a postscript, while the story has already transpired and unlike the one suffering now (or even the one who benefited from the benevolence) there are many who lost livelihood and money and that definitely needs justice!

[Neil Roy]

The whole point here is, It's all political. We proclaim to live in a democracy where constitution is the bible and that rich and poor are same before the law. It is all hogwash. Vindictive, divisive and hateful politics is the agenda here and if the Elected person wants something to be done, it is done. Such violations of basic rights of citizens are denied routinely and with impunity, not just in India but all over the world. The only difference is that technology is advanced enough for all citizens to know the facts through mobile connectivity.
We can say what we want, but Naresh Goyal was a visionary who changed the way the aviation industry ran. Any person who takes risks is bound to cut corners but he is targeted for whatever reason. If the same yardstick is applied to all the people who do business, we will have to build Tihar for each district. ED and for that matter most government organizations are now used as a political weapon more than an independent entity and that is shameful. The bigger worry is that, if it can happen to Naresh Goyal, it can happen to you and me and that is the scary part.

[npawan29]

Originally Posted by RaghuVis

I had read the report yesterday. sympathize with his current conditions. I hope the judge uses his observations wisely to grant relief if any. However, let us not forget that countless Indians are rotting in Indian jails for decades even without getting a hearing date for a bail plea.

3 rumors come to my mind when I hear about NG.

1. One already mentioned above on him finishing off his rival mercilessly using D-gang to clear competition.

2. How All the licenses and busy routes to international destinations were taken out of Air India and handed over on a platter to him by his close friends in government (Not taking names).

3. How it was his management team that mastered the stupid rule (Now taken out) that any new airline has to wait for 5 years to start operating on International routes. He apparently used his influence in government to implement the same.

It would be great if aviation experts could comment on the last 2.

Absolutely no sympathies for Naresh Goyal, he just made a statement designed by his lawyer or PR which struck a cord among many.

He/Jet Airlines has abused their connections with the equally corrupt Govt/authorities of that time.

@Raghu you are spot on the last two points, in-fact they influenced many other rules to ensure no new airlines survives.

[HereticHermit]

Originally Posted by Neil Roy

Any person who takes risks is bound to cut corners but he is targeted for whatever reason.

Only greed or reluctance will make a business house cut corners. Risk appetite has nothing to do with running or managing the business as such. Managing reckless greed should not be confused with honest intent to prosper.

[Neil Roy]

Originally Posted by HereticHermit

Only greed or reluctance will make a business house cut corners. Risk appetite has nothing to do with running or managing the business as such. Managing reckless greed should not be confused with honest intent to prosper.

I really don't mean to come off as arrogant or obnoxious but we as a forum share our experience and knowledge which benefit others and I'm compelled to share my views....quite strongly. Let's take a case study of the average builder or real estate promoter in India. Business model is very simple. Buy land, build house, sell house and make profit. In this, for an example sake, let me highlight the hurdles in buying land alone.
Buy Land - There are various verticals here but I'll highlight the important ones. Identifying the land parcel and completing due diligence. This itself involves the revenue department, the tahsildars, the registration office for a clear title. Assuming that "the uncle of the father of the first legal heir is missing for more than 3 decades or so", there is enough grounds to say that the sale or registration is illegal. To create or ignore such documental anomalies the builder has to grease various palms and for this he has to pay in cash or gold. If the land is near a waterway or a coastal belt, he has to get the clearances from environmental departments, pollution departments etc. If the land was an agricultural land, he has to convert it to non agricultural purposes and for that he has to grease more palms. Nowadays, for a single high rise complex to come up, a builder has to buy land parcels from various sellers and create a contiguous boundary. Each seller will have his own demands for payment which the builder has to indulge. All this may have to be paid in black and hence any business house will have to cut corners and that is not driven by greed alone. We all like to live in fancy apartments and good views but never ever want to find out how the builder or promoter is able to make the magic happen and to make statements that "Managing reckless greed should not be confused with honest intent to prosper" is in itself quite utopian. In fact, even the most reputed projects, if scrutinized with an intent to find fault will fail. This brings us to the context of Naresh Goyal.
The govt and/or the ED is going out of it's way to scrutinise Naresh Goyal with the intent to prove him guilty. Whether he is guilty or not is for the judiciary to decide. But here in India, the ED has draconian and unconstitutional powers to keep him behind bars till his death or their convenience. Such actions are being done selectively and with the intent to intimidate. I repeat again. If the ED is going to apply the same yardstick to all the billionaires in India( Especially the ones who became billionaires in the last decade or so) will they be inside or outside?
Our interpretation of the law is based on what we see in movies. I'm pretty sure that the advocates and lawyers( Yes, there is a difference between an advocate and a lawyer) in our group will be laughing at our legally ignorant statements. In legal terms, Naresh Goyal cannot be inside a prison till he is condemned guilty by the court of law. That is in our constitution. In the US, if you shoot someone in self defense, you wont even be inside a jail that night till you're charged and deemed a flight risk. We have the same constitutional right here in India, but show me one person who is out on bail immediately.
I'm sorry if this sounds aggressive, but I'm really frustrated in the way in which law is selectively implemented and used as a weapon instead of a shield. My heart goes out the the millions of people in jail in India just because they don't even know their rights and the powers that be are waiting for their bribe to "implement the law". Naresh Goyal incident is just bringing this fallacy to the fore.

[anjan_c2007]

Naresh Goyal's present predicament is too pitiable for the once Airline Mogul who is now 75 years old. During the bail hearing he was reportedly trembling. The case was initiated by CBI through a FIR under the PML Act reportedly for an unfulfilled loan repayment of Rs 538.62 crores from Canara Bank. The Rs 838.86 crores loan taken by him for his airline was partly repaid, leaving an unpaid balance of Rs 538.62 crores, the defaulted amount. He is jailed since September 2023.

Naresh Goyal is to be treated at JJ Hospital but was dismayed at the queues there. His wife Anita who was also on the Jet Airways board is a co-accused is battling an advanced stage of cancer while his daughter is ill. Hence, there was no one to take care of his ailing wife, he said. The court acknowledged Goyal's submissions, assuring him of necessary mental and physical health care. The judge instructed Goyal's lawyers to take appropriate steps regarding his health. The next hearing is slated for 16.01.24.

During this hearing he had said that he would prefer to die in jail with folded hands, rather than get hospitalised after queuing up there for admission and so on.

The court will simply not heed to such requests like "dying in jail". Our courts vouch and abide by the Article 21 of the Constitution which states "right to live" is our fundamental right. Even the murderers committing heinous crimes are hospitalised if they need medical treatment. In the courts of law its, "head rules the heart" and not the vice versa.

But the turn of events that led to this sad and grave situation are quite shocking. The end result was disastrous both for the once top notch airline and its founder and CEO. The takeaway here for one and all is the message given through a simple, centuries old adage "cut your coat according to your cloth."