[AutoNoob]

Originally Posted by NiInJa

"Taking moral responsibility and stepping down immediately" in the hour of need is cowardice, and it sounds 'cute' in politics. Owning up responsibility, taking immediate actions whatever needed in the situation and making efforts to bring long-term change and then, if needed, stepping down makes more sense, no?

I totally echo your thoughts. Resigning taking moral responsibility, transferring or suspending the officials when something serious has taken place leads to chaos. The new incoming guy may not be familiar even of the names of staff whom he should be contacting to carry out the rescue/ relief/ restoration work. Yes, there are subordinate staff who support, but the incoming person may not know strength of each person reporting to him.

Such a measure of resignation/ transfer/ suspension should be undertaken only if there is a possibility that the person may tamper with the evidence or create hindrance in the work.

Originally Posted by F150

Due to the heavy traffic of trains, track maintenance staff are not getting clearance for maintenance activities.

Summarizing a discussion that I had with dad's friend who worked in Railway track maintenance for more than 35years :

Over the years, train traffic has increased significantly. That has lead to higher track occupancy and lesser time for maintenance. There is extreme pressure from Operations (Traffic) deptts on the maintenance deptts. The requests for slow down/ stoppage of trains are granted with lot of paper pushing. Further there is pressure to restore the normal operations in shortest possible time. Block-closures for maintenance have become rarity.

Also, as is reported after every big railway accident, there is huge vacancy/ backlog in the recruitment. This becomes critical in safety related functions. If the trains could run without mandatory two loco-pilots, the shortfall here too will be huge.

Infact there have been cases where staff working on maintenance got injured or killed as they were under pressure to maintain the tracks without caution (signal/ markers to slow down trains to 10~20kmph in the maintenance. Most of such staff is contractual and incidents hardly make to news.

The result: staff resorts to shortcuts without following laid down procedures and if any incident takes place, the fall guy is from maintenance as 'he didn't follow the procedure'.

[epiccross]

Have they owned up regarding how they have not scaled up the human resources or expanded the infra enough to accomodate for the increased traffic? I have seen hardly any mentions of that even among all the noise right now. These are the questions journos should be asking, but alas, independent journalism has gone to the dogs for the most part. This is the important bit, and while the "sabotage" angle is being thrown around to spice up the discussions, the more likely explanation is the workaround angle, where they contravened protocols and did the "quick fix". This might be owing to the issues mentioned by AutoNoob above.

Exactly same thing happened in Mysuru, so it's not as if there's no precedence:
https://www.deccanherald.com/nationa...w-1224837.html

But since crisis was averted, nobody made any fuss about this. These are the things that should be highlighted, not showering the minister for doing his very basic job or calling for resignations of one individiual. Or even blaming a single person (in case this is what happened) and as usual "solving" this with another "quick fix".

[OpenRoads]

Originally Posted by Lalvaz

Hope this is a wake up call for our government and our bureaucrats to take modernization and maintenance for our critical infra on a war footing.

Processes are in place for regular inspection and maintenance. But I believe there is no wake up call for the corrupt.

Inspection reports are written sitting at home instead of going on site and money allocated for procurement of safety and maintenance equipment and installation never finds it way as it should.

All we can do is hope that Karma is real and lead an honest life ourselves.

[.sushilkumar]

Originally Posted by ABHI_1512

As far as enquiry is concerned, I don’t see any inquiry being complete. Did the railways complete their inquiry yet ? If the culprits are identified then what’s the reason/ need for CBI inquiry ? This handing over the case to CBI seems more like a publicity stunt to me when Railways have their own competent mechanism to find out the causes about the accident.

The word Used by railway board while recommending CBI enquiry is " preliminary findings". If they choose to wait for Railway enquiry to get over, the scene of crime will be run over by multiple people & all evidence lost. Time is important in such investigations.

As for CBI inquiry goes i am unable to understand why people have issues with it. If govt thinks that there is a wider conspiracy let that be investigated by experts. I am hoping you do agree that GRP is not equipped to handle such complex investigations. As for Old enquiry reports goes, they are very much available in public domain. Google is your friend.

Originally Posted by ABHI_1512

NIA has been previously entrusted with train accident investigation. And that investigation turned out a damp squib though.

NIA have never investigated any train accidents. Will be happy to be corrected.

Originally Posted by ABHI_1512

While you might be happy with the minister for doing his job, I am not. He is a minister for a reason. Also, previous ministers resigned taking moral responsibility for accidents and tracks were cleared for traffic previously as well. You see, there is something called accountability. Relief efforts can be directed by people entrusted with the job. Just being present at the site of accident doesn’t hold much if dead bodies have to be thrown around and people have to still run pillar to post to find their near and dear ones !! !

Taking moral responsibility and resigning is the easiest way out for anyone. Those very same people who resigned earlier as railway ministers went on to become CM,s and again railway ministers in subsequent years. A certain former lady railway minister even refused to visit accident site & instead choose to address a political rally in her home state blaming her local opposition for the accident in her own state. This time also, she was first to descend and start playing politics.

Let us not talk about moral responsibility and accountability now when some body is trying to set a example taking full responsibility & trying to correct same. He did not resigned because he is accountable to what he is doing than running away like a coward. I would avoid taking any direct name for fear of breaking the forum rules but i do see the bias there.

[montsa007]

Originally Posted by Lalvaz

Hope this is a wake up call for our government and our bureaucrats to take modernization and maintenance for our critical infra on a war footing.

Unfortunately after such tragic events little is done to correct the wrongs. Those who have the power to fix things for the future, will do a helicopter tour, visit the place, get some photos clicked for media purpose, give a speech, announce some relief package (claiming it is another challenge in itself) & forget about it. If its someone who isn't in power, will visit the place & give a speech to bash the one in power and how they (the powerless party) could have done better if they were in power. Media can do only so much, taking action is something Government has to do.

[dragracer567]

Interesting article from The Economist on the safety record of the Indian railways. Surprisingly for The Economist, they concede that Indian Railways actually have an impressive safety record in the recent past. Out of the 25,000 people who die due to train-related incidents in India, most were run over or fell out of trains, only tiny minority died in derailments or collisions. Compare this with 300,000 people who die from road accidents every year. Offcourse, air travel is safest, the last deadly crash was in 2020 where 18 people died!

[NomadSK]

In WTC, Both teams will be wearing black armbands as a mark of respect for those who lost their lives in the tragic train accident in Odisha last weekend.

Gratitude for showing respect to the departed souls !

[itwasntme]

Originally Posted by itwasntme

I dearly hope such shortcuts are a total outlier, and not being carried out with the implicit/explicit connivance of station masters across small stations.

.

Quoting myself here: hopefully this case was a one-off:
https://indianexpress.com/article/in...-them-8651350/

Coromandel Express accident: ‘Rigged’ location box suspected trigger for Odisha mishap, Rlys plans double-lock on them

[ABHI_1512]

Originally Posted by .sushilkumar

The word Used by railway board while recommending CBI enquiry is " preliminary findings". If they choose to wait for Railway enquiry to get over, the scene of crime will be run over by multiple people & all evidence lost. Time is important in such investigations.

Never have I heard something like SCENE OF CRIME attributed to a major railway accident ever !! A major railway accident can never be segregated as a scene of crime simply because of the fact that rescue operations and restoration of services will always take precedence. This talk of scene of crime run over by many people and evidences lost is bizarre to say the least when so many people are involved in rescue and restoration work anyways.

Now coming to your second point, GRP doesn’t come into the picture at all. GRP is a protection force and not some investigative force. The CRS or the Commissioner of Railway Safety is mandated to enquire about any railway accident and that office is established for that purpose only. The CRS also, quite judiciously comes under the Ministry of Civil Aviation so that they remain independent of the railways. Don’t believe me, Google is your friend.

NIA has previously investigated train accidents. The train accident involving Indore-Patna express in 2016 and Jagdalpur-Bhubaneswar express derailment in 2017. Don’t believe me, Google is your friend.


No one has taken responsibility for this ghastly accident yet. So this talking of moral high ground is anything but reassuring to the people who have lost their dear and near ones. I could have elaborated more on some other points as well but then that would invite infractions, so I chose to pass.

Let the real reason behind the crash come out, let’s see what crime comes out of the investigation. Meanwhile, as much as we discuss here, fact is so many people lost their lives and so many homes destroyed. That, my friend, is the real crime !!

[jigar1791@gmail]

Originally Posted by Tucker48

What is the purpose of discussion if one is not able to convince the other party or both the parties are trying to reach a consensus?

Like I mentioned in my earlier reply, I'm not here to comment or propagate IR as the best Railway System around the world.
What I meant is, despite the challenges faced, the enormous daily passenger+freight operations executed on it's network, the volume of pax+freight carried, we do have better safety records than other, technologically advanced and developed railway systems around the globe.

But knowing one system doesn't mean that it's the best. One has to compare it with something.

There you go - an unbiased comparison on YouTube between India and EU's Railway Systems (also includes snippets from China and the US) -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uILJKlfRdoE

Let me know if you need further understanding on data points captured to explain railway workings/operational metrics to measure indicators

A 2 lane highway was converted to a 4 lane highway some 20 years ago but still 2 underpasses and 1 overbridge in a 50 km patch are still 2 lane thanks to railways. This is 1 place I'm quite familiar with and I'm sure there will be other such places as well.

This can be called as bureaucracy, I agree, India has to come out of the red-tape mannerisms to expedite govt efforts on infra developments. Not only Railways can be blamed here.

A simple Google search says more than 2.5 lakh people died in the last 10 years due to railway accidents.

Some links

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/in...-10738461.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/theprin...1610557/%3famp

Now can you share some links where it proves that our railway system is the better than most?

The above links you have shared highlight operational concerns than safety records. A significant majority of deaths are because of tress-passing or overcrowding, not because of deaths caused by train accidents.
Here again - I do agree the numbers are high, but the same should be compared against the volume VS death ratio, which will give you an idea on how the safety metrics are measured.

Your statement was a classic case of rhetoric but I refrained myself to use that word. You know one thing and you says it's the best. But best in relative to what. Is it my toy is better than your toy?

Again, my replies are not to highlight IR as the best, but when you consider overall scenario (which includes multiple data points like volume, operations, route-km etc), you will find us to be one of the safest not the best.

Chinese media is asking how come Indian railways became the worst from the best? They have their opinions and they are presenting data as well.

Media in China is govt controlled and directed to promote state propaganda. Let's not get into it.
Rather, a universally known tabloid has these findings, if you may read onto -
https://www.economist.com/asia/2023/...-safety-record

Lastly, India or Indian railways didn't come into existence in 2014. 8-9 years is a infinitesimally small period time in a civilization.

I'm not being political here, the last decade is just a reference point. You can have an open-minded assessment of the progress that has happened in the last decade. Few of such successes visible post 2014 (I'm being apolitical here, just using the last decade from a timeline perspective)-
1. Entire Route Electrification, reducing CO2 emissions and promoting greener and safer energy usage
2. Improving track and relevant infrastructure, supporting semi-highspeed trains (Gatimaan, Tejas etc)
3. Indigenous development of railway assets - Vande Bharat, WAG12 Rail Factory in Bihar - aides in employment and supports economy
4. Intracity rail infrastructure - Development, Implementation and Operation of Metro in ~20 cities in India
5. Full-scale manufacturing of LHB coaches, which are more safer, anti-telescopic and advanced than ICF ones

Hope the above perspective helps to highlight - we're not the best, but better than a lot of them when it comes to running, managing and upkeeping railway operations (including safety) with such vast geography and allied complexities

[.sushilkumar]

Originally Posted by ABHI_1512

NIA has previously investigated train accidents. The train accident involving Indore-Patna express in 2016 and Jagdalpur-Bhubaneswar express derailment in 2017. Don’t believe me, Google is your friend.

In both cases, it was suspected that tracks were blasted by Naxalites / terrorists which bought in NIA. There was no blast here but enough evidence of tampering with the way signal systems works.

Originally Posted by ABHI_1512

No one has taken responsibility for this ghastly accident yet. So this talking of moral high ground is anything but reassuring to the people who have lost their dear and near ones.

So basically, responsibility & accountability gets fixed only when minister have resigned after issuing press statements. Have the departed came back in past as all earlier ministers resigned citing so called Moral responsibility & zero accountability only to come back 6 months later to warm the same chair.

Originally Posted by ABHI_1512

Let the real reason behind the crash come out, let’s see what crime comes out of the investigation.

Exactly. Let the real reason for crash come out. That's the reason we have 2 agencies experts in their respective fields investigating the case.

[AutoNoob]

Video: Inside A Train Coach, Seconds Before Horrific Odisha Crash

Video Source : Odisha TV
News Source : NDTV

A new video has now surfaced that captures the exact moment when Coromandel Express collided with the other train.

The video shows a sanitation worker mopping the floor inside a coach of Coromandal Express, with passengers relaxing in their berths.

Then a sudden jerk, and the camera starts shaking amid loud screams. Everything goes dark with shrieks and screams before the video ends abruptly.

Sources say the video was reportedly recorded by a passenger. NDTV cannot verify the authenticity of the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz1S9u5FVMk

[tharian]

Knowing how jobless some people are, anyone of them could have made this video after the incident.
Why would someone record the cleaner sweeping the floor?

[montsa007]

Originally Posted by tharian

Why would someone record the cleaner sweeping the floor?

I saw a Youtube short yesterday where a TTE was being filmed while he was checking tickets in the train. People these days film anything for content/views/subscribers .

[kiku007]

Originally Posted by jigar1791@gmail

Hope the above perspective helps to highlight - we're not the best, but better than a lot of them when it comes to running, managing and upkeeping railway operations (including safety) with such vast geography and allied complexities

Buddy, I understand you are a railfan and quite passionate about this topic. You do point out with objective data that IR is probably doing the best it can possibly do considering the myriad of past, present and future constraints. All good.

May I just ask you if you'll maintain this objectivity and magnanimity if one of the departed, injured, or maimed was known to you personally? Would the statistics give any solace in that instance? Wouldn't you search for reasons and seek action to not let that happen again?

Over 200 people are dead and if that doesn't call for action then, all I can say is thanks for reaffirming the value of human life in India. Continue to take digital pride in how X is better than Y.