[Hayek]

What amazes me is even if for some Unfathomable reason, upgrading the passenger to first was not possible, why didn’t the crew arrange a swap of seats between the lady and the guy who peed on her seat. It would have been absolutely just to have this guy travel on the seat he soiled. It is also basic courtesy - even if you accidentally spilled water onto someone else’s seat, the first thing you would do is offer a swap.

Anyway am glad the news came out, the guy lost his job (and is probably unemployable in any other MNC firm), and is in jail where he deserves to be. If we see a few highly publicised instances of jerks being sent to jail for egregious behaviour, others’ behaviour would automatically improve.

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by Cyborg

.... The reality what I wrote and am writing below applies only to Air India (I am going to refer to Air India as AI henceforth) before the take over of Tata. I am not aware if things have changed after the takeover, can only hope they have. As I am sure you are fully aware that training, theory and then practicality in real life situations may be very, very different....
I do maintain AI should have handled it better than try to sweep it under the carpet.

Thank you @Cyborg for your neat and well laid out explanation which I am sure many readers will find useful. Thank you for sharing the indiscipline which was rife in parts of the old Air India. Clearly you are working or have worked for an airline. Best wishes, V.Narayan

[SuperGirl_Dad]

Originally Posted by Cyborg

Dear Mr. Narayan,

That is why I said what I said in this particular pissing incident, the crew must have had little to no warning he was going to do what he did. Blaming it entirely on the crew and going to their training is doing them a disservice.

Cheers

Ok, the crew had no warning. But please tell - why make the affected passenger sit on the same seat? Isnt it basic training 101 to move the affected passenger to another empty fresh seat (which was available) . This puts the entire blame on crew training. Over worked is one thing, but it cannot be a reason to over look details in your job. Today its bad customer treatment, tomorrow it can be flight safety related.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by Hayek

What amazes me is even if for some Unfathomable reason, upgrading the passenger to first was not possible, why didn’t the crew arrange a swap of seats between the lady and the guy who peed on her seat. It would have been absolutely just to have this guy travel on the seat he soiled. It is also basic courtesy - even if you accidentally spilled water onto someone else’s seat, the first thing you would do is offer a swap

Completely makes sense. Anyone with an ounce of common sense within the crew must have at least done this. Forget changing seat or upgrading due to whatever reason. So the drunk man does his stuff and gets back to the comfort of his seat while this lady must suffer in her soiled seat.

And I am not sure if this guy enjoyed some special priveleges. I remember once during a FRA-BLR AI flight, after boarding I was in economy and there was a passenger in the row behind me who was first greeted by the cabin crew after she got seated and then the captain himself walked up to her and briefly spoke to her. I figured out later that she was also an employee of a corporate and no way related to AI or the govt. Throughout the flight she and her Co traveller's were given some extra treatment that no one else got. Given that it was covid time the service was already poor and to add to it such discrimination made me decide not to take AI again ever.

[Cyborg]

Originally Posted by audioholic

I remember once during a FRA-BLR AI flight, after boarding I was in economy and there was a passenger in the row behind me who was first greeted by the cabin crew after she got seated and then the captain himself walked up to her and briefly spoke to her. I figured out later that she was also an employee of a corporate and no way related to AI or the govt. Throughout the flight she and her Co traveller's were given some extra treatment that no one else got. Given that it was covid time the service was already poor and to add to it such discrimination made me decide not to take AI again ever.

Audioholic, agree you felt discriminated against but allow me to explain the situation (maybe) from the other side which again happens due to human nature and across all walks of life. I am not saying this must be what has happened but this kind of thing happens regularly inflight, not only on Air India but in all airlines sometimes officially under instructions from the Commercial Department or unofficially from the human side of things.

The Commander of the flight is the boss while the aircraft is operational. Now let’s say I am the Commander and you are my friend and taking my flight. I could move you to Business or First Class if the aircraft is not at full capacity or if it’s full or not I could instruct my crew to give you the extra treatment at the back that you are talking about.

Sometimes Commercially Important People (CIP) to the airline are taking a flight where they are not to be upgraded or the flight is full. Then the Commercial Department instructs the crew and they are given the extra treatment you are talking about.

Please try and understand, it’s like say an office on ground, when you have visitors or say a delegation has come from the clients side to your office, won’t they be given the extra treatment you are talking about.

Think of an aircraft as an office which the cockpit and cabin crew go to and maybe you may think differently. Please don’t take the extra treatment of those people personally, it’s either because of business or human relations which if the positions were reversed you would do the same.

I do hope the explanation satisfies you and when you take to the skies next you travel with Air India.

Cheers

[volkman10]

Tata Group Chairman issues first statement on Air India peeing incident,

[alpha1]

Quite frankly I never understood why airlines serve unlimited alcohol on flights. Food is a necessity, but alcohol?

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by alpha1

Quite frankly I never understood why airlines serve unlimited alcohol on flights. Food is a necessity, but alcohol?

Of whatever international flights I have taken in almost all the top 10 airlines, there is no concept of unlimited alcohol nor have I seen someone being served so much to lose sense of the way to the restroom. After the first or second serving I have seen that the cabin crew either delay or somehow ignore calls. So it somewhat discourages anyone from having more unless they insist on being served. Even then I believe the cabin crew have an authority to refuse if they feel someone had a lot already. So it is upto the travelers to maintain some decorum and not question the system itself which is a part of a meal service in western culture.

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by audioholic

So it is upto the travelers to maintain some decorum and not question the system itself which is a part of a meal service in western culture.

This self-constraint goes down drastically on AI flights. Basically, our brethren feel they are drinking at home with no holds barred. I have seen fellow passengers (unfortunately more than once) asking for liquor within seconds of the flight taking off; even with the seat-belts light on.

Have noticed this on AI flights to (/from) UAE, Nepal, and other countries. Unfortunately, I don't see this changing unless the Tata leadership decide to take some stern steps going forward.

[thanixravindran]

Originally Posted by dragracer567

Seems like a silly excuse.

Stand-up comedian Kunal Kamra was banned for six months by Indigo and indefinitely by Air India, Vistara and SpiceJet. So there is precedence! Has Air India’s rules changes in 2 years?

Extract from the Kunal Kamra article, none of which were followed in this case:

From what I read, AI constituted the committee by end of December after the complaint to Chairman office and the 30 day ban is till the committee submits its report, exactly as per the quote. I believe they will ban him for life if it is allowed by law given the public backlash.

[whitewing]

Originally Posted by alpha1

Quite frankly I never understood why airlines serve unlimited alcohol on flights. Food is a necessity, but alcohol?

Absolutely! Even I used to wonder about this.

Given how much effort goes into keeping dangerous people from boarding a flight (passport, visa, security screening etc.) and then to serve multiple rounds of liquor knowing well that some may get intoxicated and out of control. I've seen 2 cases where the person became noisy (Indian in one case, and in another what appeared to be an American) after downing one too many, and had to be spoken to by the attendants. Thankfully it didn't escalate further.

[volkman10]

Horrific account by a co-passenger on Air India Flight AI 102

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOHS...nnel=MOJOSTORY

[Cyborg]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Thank you @Cyborg for your neat and well laid out explanation which I am sure many readers will find useful. Thank you for sharing the indiscipline which was rife in parts of the old Air India.

Dear Sir, while I have said some unpleasant things which needed to be said with reference to the context, I feel it’s necessary to record what I am about to say. It’s off topic as such and I request our Moderator team to please excuse.

While Air India (AI) has had its challenges due to its size, weight and administration (employee numbers versus fleet size) in its erstwhile form, she has been looking after it’s retired employees and I am sure has the blessings of thousands upon thousands of such people from a medical standpoint and also travel benefits, a certain number of subject to load tickets for life.

Each and every retired employee irrespective of rank has been looked after medically by the company. They have been provided medical assistance for decades from normal monthly medication to all sorts of medical tests, dental work and even hospitalisation to operations. These would be in places where AI had a tie up. There were medical centres in Kalina and Air India building in Mumbai for checking/administering various letters and medical tablet dispensation by a panel of Doctors. In cases where the medicines were not available at these centres these retired employees were provided credit letters listing the approved medicines which they had to just go and collect from many chemist shops which had a tie up with AI across Mumbai.

In my opinion AI deserves a 21 gun salute for the above. In fact to the credit of the Tata’s I believe this program is being currently re-structured and is going to continue in a new form. This is a work in progress.

Originally Posted by SuperGirl_Dad

Ok, the crew had no warning. But please tell - why make the affected passenger sit on the same seat? Isnt it basic training 101 to move the affected passenger to another empty fresh seat (which was available). This puts the entire blame on crew training. Over worked is one thing, but it cannot be a reason to over look details in your job. Today its bad customer treatment, tomorrow it can be flight safety related.

This is a real confusing aspect which needs further investigation which we from the outside cannot provide. Sometimes there are many aspects which do not correctly come out in the media. Under these circumstances it’s a no brainer for the Commander to move the distressed lady immediately especially if there was a First Class or any other seat available. Please note, this burden is entirely the Commanders to bear as it is only his or her decision. Cabin crew cannot be blamed as far as this is concerned, they have no authority or say in the matter, they may only report happenings, the responsibility of decision making and action is entirely the Commanders.

Please understand that these two aspects (customer service and flight safety) are not comparable in any manner or form. Customer service may be a matter of opinion and fluid, flight safety is a clearly laid out set of rules and procedures which are non negotiable with respect to the safety of passengers and crew. It would not be proper or correct to say today it’s customer service and tomorrow it can be flight safety related.

Cheers

[frewper]

Co-passenger on the pee-gate flight speaks up

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/shan...horror-3673705

Dr Sugata Bhattacharjee, a US-based renowned Doctor of Audiology, was seated next to Shankar Mishra, who allegedly urinated on a woman co-passenger during the November 26 Air India flight from New York to New Delhi.

Mr Bhattacharjee sat in seat number 8A, while Mishra was in seat 8C in the business class.

"I would not have been this vocal. I waited, but when his father said this did not happen, it triggered me," Mr Bhattacharjee told PTI in an interview over the phone.

Mishra's father had said in Boisar near Mumbai last week that his son is innocent and that he cannot do such a thing to a woman his mother's age.

He said that after the incident, the flight's crew should have taken it upon themselves to ensure that the lady is moved to a different seat, given that there were four seats available in the first-class section of the flight. Instead, the lady was made to wait for a long time, and it was only after the crew rest was over, that she was given one of the seats that became available.

"That is a no no. And that is what I protested," he said, adding that when he asked why the lady was not being given an available first-class seat, he was told by the senior air hostess that she cannot make that decision and only the pilot in command can make that call.

"And that call was not made. So, this is a failure," he said.

"My anger was that nobody stood up to the responsibility and there were multiple failures in the procedural part," he said.


Recounting the events, Mr Bhattacharjee said that Mishra had been drinking as he ate lunch and he "drank four stiff drinks right through the lunch. He would drink, and he would just point to his glass, and they would come and refill it." Mishra had then fallen asleep and at some point Mr Bhattacharjee woke up when Mishra "practically" fell on his seat. Mr Bhattacharjee said he thought Mishra lost his balance because of turbulence.

Mr Bhattacharjee said that he then slept, and after he woke up, "I saw (Mishra) is bright awake, has sobered up and the crew has already spoken to him once" about the incident.

"The first thing Mishra said was 'Bro I think I am in trouble'. And my answer was, 'yes, you are'. And, he's like, I don't know what to do, I don't remember anything happening. I had not slept, I had too many drinks." He added that as Mishra sobered up, he seemed "afraid".

He described the woman as very soft-spoken and said she was almost in tears after the horrific incident.

He said that even after the incident, the woman did not create any scene and did not shout or scream. "She was very quiet, she's a very, very decent lady." Mr Bhattacharjee said he made a written complaint about the incident the very same day. He said he had asked for a complaint book, but was handed over two pieces of white paper on which he wrote his complaint.



Disclaimer
The image is based on flight history, flight numbers, class configuration and details from news sources. It could be incorrect hence refrain from sharing

[no_fear]

@Cyborg @V. Narayan,

As per media reports, it seems that the captain is being blamed for not stepping up and allowing the distressed passenger to move her from business class to first class.

Why is it the pilot's call? Isn't this something that the chief purser can decide? Surely a senior flight attendant can look up available seats and move the passenger.

Is there a different protocol followed by AI?