[Mgup564]

Originally Posted by Mgup564

I did research on this but it was quite a few years back and I gave up on it. Off-hand, BALCO and Hindustan Zinc to Sterlite comes to mind. There was an interview on TV of Anil Agarwal and Ratan Tata on a certain channel. Ratan Tata came across as the technocrat that he is. But Anil Agarwal came across as a moron. I looked up at how such a moron accumulated so much wealth. Why, the easiest way to get rich is to own the mineral resources of any country.

Now why were firms involved in the mining of resources (which belong to the people of this country) should be privatised and the profits from the mining of these natural resources be handed over to private individuals?

And then there was the Bombay airport takeover by Adani which was owned by MIAL (of which AAI was a shareholder). Funny how suddenly CBI was after GVK when Adani expressed interest and GVK refused to sell, and how easily CBI dropped the matter once GVK (out of fear) sold the airport to Adani.

As for the banks having been recapitalised by our money, could it be because they can be asked to and are more than willing to support the government? I mean, if I know that you will give me money no questions asked, and do not have the power to ask the money back, I would try to make you as wealthy as I can.

The original query was asking instances of PSUs that have been allowed to run to the ground and privatised. Mining PSUs come to mind. Any mining firm that is unprofitable is only so due to a lack of investment and upkeep of machinery. Mining is not a hi tech industry. So to sell it off to a private player means that it has been decided that resources of the country has been handed to a chosen private individual. No other inference can be drawn. The government could have chosen to invest in the PSU.

Mineral wealth of the country should not be in the hands of private players. There are many examples of firms that are big on account of their hold on the mineral wealth of the country. Jindal =steel, Aditya Birla= Cement, Reliance=oil.


State banks can be arm twisted (if the government chooses to) to provide loans to 'friends of government". And when these loans turn NPA, the government chooses to recapitalise them with taxpayers money. I think that is unethical.

[Mr.Ogre]

At this stage I would cut Air India some slack. Turn around takes time, and with newer younger recruits they will be efficient as they gain more experience. The intent is there, but it needs time and I am pretty sure they are on the right path.

[Mgup564]

You cannot have a discussion on PSUs vs privatisation without involving the socialism vs capitalism debate and the current state of politics in the country.

As of know, the current trend is to denigrate Mr. Nehru for just about everything. That he did nothing for this country. It is his foresight and vision that made the country what it is today. it was his vision to choose the middle path between capitalism and socialism. And to err on the side of socialism for the benefit of the masses.

If we had runaway capitalism like in the US and what the current Indian government currently follows, you would still be driving cars without seatbelts because the motor lobby was too strong and it cost them to install seatbelts on their cars. They would rather people die in car crashes and being cash rich, they would fight it out in the courts.

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by Mgup564

The original query was asking instances of PSUs that have been allowed to run to the ground and privatised. Mining PSUs come to mind. Mining is not a hi tech industry. So to sell it off to a private player means that it has been decided that resources of the country has been handed to a chosen private individual. No other inference can be drawn.

State banks can be arm twisted (if the government chooses to) to provide loans to 'friends of government". And when these loans turn NPA, the government chooses to recapitalise them with taxpayers money. I think that is unethical.

Originally Posted by Mgup564

You cannot have a discussion on PSUs vs privatisation without involving the socialism vs capitalism debate and the current state of politics in the country.

We are going way off topic. This thread is on Air India's service levels and feedback thereon. It is not a thread on the fundamentals of PSU vs Private or policies of this or any other Govt - for that you may start another thread. A lot of what you write is correct and I agree with you but politics is a strict no no on Team BHP no matter what our views. Thank you for your co-operation.

[extreme_torque]

Recently flew Air India from Melbourne to Delhi and the Delhi to Melbourne via Mumbai and it was possibly the worst experience I have ever had on an international flight. The previous worse was Sri Lankan airlines but it was mostly due to a long 3 hour flight delay and Colombo being less of an airport but more of a glorified train station. The flying experience was pretty okay and the stuff inside the aircraft was working properly and the food and the general presentation was quote okay too.

Coming back to Air India, I had high hopes given they have been acquired by Tata and it had been a reasonably long time since the acquisition. The Melbourne to Delhi flight had non working infotainment screens and not just mine. None of screens in my row were working and it was the same story in most rows. If I were to hazard a guess, more than 70% of the screens were not working. And this is on a 12.5 hour long haul direct flight mind you. Fortunately I was well prepared for such an eventuality and had movies downloaded via Netflix on my iPad. The seats had decent legroom but the foot stand was missing on my seat and a lot of other seats too. The food and overall service was pretty average as well and they dont serve alcohol/wine after taking off even if you ask for it. Its only in between the meals half way into the flight.

If you think this was bad, Delhi to Melbourne was worse. It started well though. The domestic flight from Delhi to Mumbai was great - the plane was clean and smelled nice, the food was pretty great as well and all the infotainment screens were working. Surely the international route would be the same if not better, or so I thought. The Mumbai to Melbourne flight has the dubious distinction of being my worst international flying experience ever - the seats were worn right down to the nub, the foot stands were missing again, instead of 70%, it was more like 90% of the infotainment screens werent working, the plan smelled bad and 3 of the toilets were out of order - this is on a long haul direct international flight mind you. I cannot fathom how they think it is okay to provide such a terrible experience on an international long haul flight. Tata should be ashamed of themselves. I am NOT flying Air India ever again, even if they offer me the cheapest price possible on a flight.

Was on twitter/X after my experience and chanced upon this lady complaining about the same flight as well.
https://twitter.com/AboutIndia/statu...18807793357025

P.S. Have also posted this on the international airlines thread.

[bijims]

I don't have much experience with Air India post Tata's takeover but have flown a bunch of times with Air India Express from MCT TO COK and back, and the flights have become good in general, the cabin has been revamped, flights are always on time, sometimes early too. The general experience has been good, however, they did cut out the complementary snack box they used to provide earlier and all food options are paid for now as in other budget airlines like Indigo.

The service, check-in process, and flight attendants are all good, but I would give them some more time as it's not easy to bring in change, the new set of aircraft they ordered is coming in the next couple of years, and a new fleet would help.

[splitinfinitive]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Used Air India for a Delhi-London leg and then two weeks later the London-Delhi leg. The aircraft on both flights was a Boeing 777 leased from I think Delta airline. The seats were in business class and here are my points based on my observations and conversations with the cabin crew.

Funnily enough, a few months back I flew DEL-FRA on the old 787 and while the business class seats were held together with duct tape, piano wire and hope, the cabin crew were quite good! Eager to please, relatively efficient and very earnestly requesting feedback. Granted, am one of those who loves sleeping on planes, so there wasn't much chance for things to go wrong.

I for one am rooting for Air India to succeed - my Grandad had such fond memories of travelling international first-class in AI in the 60s and 70s. How brilliant the crews were and how airlines like Singapore Air used to send their crews to train with AI. I really wish to see the Maharajah soaring high again.

[Satkaj]

I have written my experience of flying Bom- Mel- Bom on this thread.

I can understand plane’s can’t be changed overnight as it’s a challenge , but my question is what stops Air India to give better food, Service , on ground experience? As i read here it’s not random flight but mostly all flying long haul are having similar experience. If I am reading this as an Air India CEO , this certainly will scare me of loosing my job.

[warp_10]

Btw, I am big fan of TATAs and their products. Always have maintained stance that they are the ones who define how we are different from China. It's not about just low cost but to provide the quality from some decent price point.

Took an Air India flight after ages from Bengaluru to Chennai with lots of scepticism along with my kid. Here are the key things I loved :

1. Awesome leg space and seat width.
2. On Time arrival was spot on.
3. Food was served in a 40 min flight.
4. They had nice LCD screens with movies that could hook you even for the 50 min journey.

Kid loved it big time and worth the 500 odd bucks more than the low-cost airline. Though the reviews are mixed, my decision will be to definitely fly AI until I come across a bad experience (hope I don't, and TATAs keep it that way).

[SafariMan]

1.Vistara would be merged with Air India in the next few months (single LHC) .
2.Air Asia India is already separated and integrated with Air India Express (Single LC).
3. 30 years of dedicated decay (if I should say so) of the national airline cannot be metamorphosed in matter of few years and with the Boeing/Airbus production delays and safety concerns.

Dad (eng dept took detailed notes of the concorde visit in Mumbai 70s, those were the days of respect for AI along with KLM, Pan Am), uncles(working under the govt appointed MD's) and cousins/spouses (Pilots, corporate execs and trainers)) have seen right from the VAYUDOOT-AI (TATA Airlines) -AI/IA (nationalised) to the now homecoming back to the Tata group.

Having setup the SAP cloud for Vistara can vouch that TATAs always do take airline portfolio very very seriously. The JRD legacy of having flown the first plane for India from London to than Bombay via Karachi stays on.

It's not a surprise that in spite of not having an airline before Vistara or Air Asia they still had Taj Sats the largest airline catering company, TATA Ground handling and engineering company and working on composites and engines with aircraft manufacturer Boeing / Lockheed Martin, Honeywell, BAE systems, Rolls Royce, GE among other Aerospace, defence and space program operators.

Let's re-visit this topic in a year or two and see the change.

There is already a new training schedule for all the Air India Vistara Air Asia and Air India express staff towards impending Mergers . With regards to equipment they always flown the best in history. I have sat in the past 747's Air India to the 777 ER and the 787 Dreamliner. The introduction of the A350 and other new age aircrafts will change the fleet composition . Till than we will have to remain patient.

[scorpian]

Voted NO.
And nor would I ever used them again even if it means paying higher rates to others.

Experience 1.
Mumbai to goa,flight cancelled last minute stating aircraft issues. Time of departure was 21:45hrs at 22.30hrs after waiting and many arguments ground crew says flight cancelled due to aircraft issues. No replacement flight,no accommodation,no food no nothing. Basically they just left us at our mercy at the airport to deal with it. There was no flight available till next morning.
Air port hotel tariff was 13k for a night. I had to sit the entire night at the airport. Horrendous experience. I had stitches on my scalp two days before and I was further traumatized as I wanted to just reach home asap. Sad part is after numerous followup never got the refund too. Gave up on it.

Experience 2.
Dubai to goa flight.
Old aircraft which was vibrating like no tomorrow. A very loud humm which was very very irritating. I had to plug in my noise cancellation earplugs and watch a movie just to distract myself. Another thing I have noticed is whenever I have flown in air india my ears get blocked. Is this due to poor management of cabin pressure??
I am fine in other carriers. A mystery I haven't been able to solve.

Now I deliberately refrain from choosing anything with air india,air india express.

[handsofsteel]

Originally Posted by handsofsteel

I travelled to Heathrow in Jan this year for a tournament that my son was participating in. Onwards was a combo of indigo+qatar (with a layover at Doha) and return was via air india as I wanted a direct flight.

.
.
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My complaint on return elicited the cliched response, "We are sorry for your experience, but better days are ahead as we have ordered 400 new aircraft."

Travelled from Delhi to DC. Again a Qatar+ Air India combo.
Onwards was on Qatar with a 4 hr layover at Doha. Total time - 22h 15 min (as it was a 11th hour booking, no other flights were available).
Return - Air India direct flight. Total flight time - 13h 30 min (Flight landed 70 mins early).

Comparo between the two legs. AIr India was an older aircraft (worked in my favour) as had roomier seats and better leg room than any other aircraft I have been in recently. On Qatar, I had sought (and got) Row 1 seats so not really a comparison.
Punctuality - Qatar was on time, Air India was before time.
Food - Qatar was mind blowing! Both quality as well as quantity. Nitpicking - They served food too often, not allowing passengers to lapse into a slumber.
Air India - Food was lousy. No variety, Breakfast was served cold and given away in packets (not even trays). I somehow can't understand a foreign airline serving better Indian food than an Indian airline.
Snacks - Qatar had variety, AI was restricted to one type (not to my liking, but it is subjective).
Service - No comparison here. Qatar was way better. in case of AI, after the first service, there was a line of people near the galley with their requests as the crew did not respond to the call buttons.
In flight entertainment - Had a good experience on both flights.
My recommendation?
For an economy class traveller, on this sector, I would still pick AI being the only direct flight.

[Hayek]

Flew Air India on the BOM - JFK - BOM route over the last couple of weeks.

The aircraft used were planes leased from Delta - incidentally 15+ year old 777-200 airframes. These planes had been upgraded by Delta in 2019 and fitted with full flat beds and large screens in a parallel 1-2-1 layout in business class, with a sliding partition for each seat akin to what was there in the first class on Jet 777-300s.

The check in experience in Bombay was mediocre - while there was one guy ahead of me, he had been bumped from the flight (I had web checked in) and was creating a ruckus. Then I found the seat I had pre booked was not available since it was “not functional”, and I was hence moved to a centre seat rather than the window I prefer. Thereafter, the flight itself however was outstanding.

The seat pitch is huge - I am 179 cms, and I could stretch comfortably in the seat. We received Tumi branded sleepwear, and there was adequate space to charge phones and other devices and place my water bottle. The screen was huge - the only crib about the plane was that the loos were cramped and difficult to change in.

The meals were plated very nicely as well, and taste was good too. Service was friendly - overall had a great 16 hour flight to JFK even if we landed a little late.






The return flight was delayed considerably and rescheduled 2 days in advance, allegedly due to disruption caused by the need to avoid Iranian airspace. But the on board experience was arguably even better than the flight out.

Overall, a great experience which augurs well for the new Air India.

BTW, had also flown London Bombay on Air India a couple of months ago. The plane was an old ex Etihad 777-300 which was better than the Classic Air India experience but not a patch on this plane.

[PistonRing]

Originally Posted by RunGaDa

My experience from a big IT company. The company I was working for was taken over by another bigger company. The new company laid down their Do's and Don'ts. It was pretty clear within a month that most if not all the old staff will be replaced. This is required if they want to wash out the old company way of working.
Tata should do a complete purge.
Set the process right.
Have penalties for every violation.
Then set benchmarks.
No other way.

Absolutely spot on assessment of the situation. As a sort of insider, without disclosing any more, I would also like to add that it is not possible to do this for all the staff that's working in AI. It's almost impossible to replace the legacy Pilots, especially Widebody ones, many of whom have ton and tons of experience. Unfortunately, if you don't replace them, they tend to convert the new entrants to be like them. That's why the so called Company culture carries on well after they have left. What the passengers are bothered about is Food, IFE and Cabin crew behaviour. What they don't know and cant see is the rot hiding under the carpet. Just Google 'fines by DGCA on AI' and see the results. The latest one on safety was just 2 months back. Add to this the cockpit disciplinary issues which have come out in the media. Suffice it to say that what comes out in the media is just the tip of the iceberg. Tatas will eventually get there but no one knows how long it will take. There are people still holding an opinion that this bullock cart can never be turned around...

[McLaren Rulez]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

None of screens in my row were working and it was the same story in most rows. If I were to hazard a guess, more than 70% of the screens were not working. And this is on a 12.5 hour long haul direct flight mind you.

I don't know when you flew but I had a Frankfurt-Delhi leg on April 15th on a 787 Dreamliner and again, none of the screens were working. Delhi to Singapore meanwhile had no screens at all lol!

AI was a bit cheaper and they do offer a lot of perks (like the huge luggage allowance) but this is quite a sorry state.