[na_agrawal]

Originally Posted by SKC-auto

Wanted to understand the reason behind this, as others have said RE will have shorter shaft compared to FE, then the losses should be minimum?

I'm not sure, I'm not from HCV field, I'm not a physicist. But I think it's something to do with the push/pull techniques.

Pushing requires more effort than pulling the same mass.

I'm just a speculator.

This discussion on HCV buses is really interesting.
Keep'em coming.

-NA.

[Rahul Rao]

I had a talk with an senior officer who was in the industry, this person retired as Director procurement from one of the big HCV companies, and is an auto enthusiast, owning a vintage collection.
The issue he said was taxes. The world received the first successful rear engine bus in the 30's, and by 69 the rear engine buses had a visible presence world over. In the early 80's Mercedes buses had a 50% rear engine portfolio which moved to nearly 85% by 1990.
Then there were pure coach builders who made their own buses and just procured power trains from the established Automotive industry.
Neoplan in Austria, Cetra in Germany, Pullman in Usa, MCI in Usa, Prevost in Canada, Wright in Ireland Nova, Hispano and Marcopolo were bigger ones among them.
Pullman developed the configuration by which types of buses are named today.
India had 40% exise duty and sales tax on top of the basic + exise duty for fully built coaches.
A Chassis attracted the same exise duty, but body built on chassis was not exisable, and only attracted Sales tax.
Due to this Manufacturers never thought of fully built buses, and purpose built coach builders that started in India never survived for long.
A rear engine chassis with locally fabricated body on top was attempted by all manufacturers, but each body being different , managing air flow over radiator placed in the rear often had problems, and the vehicles suffered from reliability issues.

By the time taxes were a bit rationalized (they are still not rational) it was too late, and Volvo was in the market, bad name for existing players rear engine buses was still not forgotten, and once Volvo was established the minuscule Indian market had no place for others. Two other European brands also came and as good as exited.
Next age is for Electric, and our people are far ahead in the game along with American and Chinese, when European's are just starting.

Rahul

[First God]

Had a question regarding Rear Engine Buses,

Kerala KSRTC had an Air Bus named Ananthapuri, rear engined, non-AC, predecessor of low-floor, Ashok Leyland used Panther chassis (ALPS 3/22) had a body built by Irizar – TVS



BEST in Mumbai had also requested & procured rear engine, AC, (ALPSV 5/36) 1373,1372 Majas Depot


Both the BEST & Kerala KSRTC have the same engines, H series but which chassis BEST use for their rear engine Ashok Leyland Bus?? was it the Panther Chassis or did they modify the Comet or Viking Chassis

Had asked Busfans on X (formerly Twitter) but couldn't get any answer,


does anyone know about this, would be helpful Thanks.

[SAE40 in veins]

ALL has relaunched their low floor rear engine ICE buses after a break.

The one instance when all Indian manufacturers came together to launch Low floor RE buses was in 2011 when JNNURM low floor buses were launched in Delhi during commonwealth games. These buses soon died out as both Tatas and ALL had limited experience with rear engine buses.

Now it seems that ALL is having a go at the segment which it had completely surrendered to Volvo at some point.

Link to news here : https://www.autocarpro.in/news/allis...il-nadu-123420


"Allison Transmission and Ashok Leyland introduce fully automatic Low-Floor city buses in Tamil Nadu
Allison Transmission partners with Ashok Leyland to equip new low-floor city buses with automatic transmissions, improving accessibility and efficiency on major bus routes in Tamil Nadu, including Chennai, Madurai, and Coimbatore.

Allison Transmission and Ashok Leyland, a leading commercial vehicle manufacturer in India and part of the Hinduja Group, have partnered to introduce low-floor city buses equipped with fully automatic transmissions in Tamil Nadu, a state in southern India.

The new 12-meter diesel buses, manufactured by Ashok Leyland, will be fitted with Allison Torqmatic® Series transmissions. These low-floor buses are designed with stepless-entry to improve accessibility for passengers, including those with disabilities, and will replace older buses that use manual transmissions.

The Allison-equipped buses will be deployed on bus routes in major Tamil Nadu cities, including Chennai, Madurai, and Coimbatore. The buses will be powered by Allison T280 transmissions, paired with Ashok Leyland's H-series six-cylinder, four-valve diesel engine, which produces 246 horsepower (184 kW). The transmissions will be delivered from Allison’s manufacturing facility located near Chennai, Tamil Nadu.

Heidi Schutte, Vice President of EMEA, APAC, and South America Sales at Allison Transmission, commented on the importance of this partnership as part of the company’s efforts to expand the use of fully automatic transmissions in India. She expressed confidence in the ongoing collaboration with Ashok Leyland and its potential to help improve public transportation in Tamil Nadu.

Allison Transmission has a significant presence in India, where it has been providing fully automatic transmissions for commercial vehicles, including city buses, for over a decade. The company’s products are well-regarded for their durability, reliability, and performance, particularly in demanding urban environments. Allison's transmissions are widely used in various sectors, such as public transportation, logistics, and construction, helping to improve fuel efficiency, reduce maintenance costs, and enhance the overall driving experience.

In India, Allison Transmission primarily focuses on the bus and commercial vehicle markets. The company’s Torqmatic® Series transmissions, designed for city and suburban buses, are an important part of India’s ongoing efforts to modernize public transportation systems. These fully automatic transmissions offer smoother operation, reduce driver fatigue, and are easier to maintain compared to manual transmissions, contributing to increased operational efficiency.

The company operates a manufacturing facility in Tamil Nadu, close to the city of Chennai, which enables Allison to supply products to local and regional markets. This facility also strengthens the company's commitment to India as a key market for its products. Over the years, Allison has established partnerships with major Indian vehicle manufacturers, such as Ashok Leyland, to meet the growing demand for advanced transmission technology in the country’s transportation sector."

[Ashley2]

There is nothing that Ashok Leyland and Tata alone faced a failure in RE buses. Even Volvo couldn't survive except for the fact that they were produced in high numbers. They were not profitable in the long run and STU's were finding it difficult to maintain them as well.

As a matter of fact, DTC still operates AL and TML buses for more than 14 years since launched. The main reason for the failure of these buses in other parts of India is a lack of maintenance, very poor urban infrastructure and subsidized ticket fare. And the manufacturers also were reluctant to give service backup over a period of time.

[SAE40 in veins]

Originally Posted by Ashley2

There is nothing that Ashok Leyland and Tata alone faced a failure in RE buses. Even Volvo couldn't survive except for the fact that they were produced in high numbers. They were not profitable in the long run and STU's were finding it difficult to maintain them as well.

Actually there is a market perception that low floor buses have to be air conditioned and premium whereas more than 90% of the STC fleets in India are not air conditioned. So a rear engined low floor bus which is elderly friendly and has a ramp for differently abled people is a functional requirement which can still be met with a rear engine non- AC bus. Here, the market (or STCs themselves) attach an unnecessary 'premium' tag to these buses and make them unviable.
Since STC purchases are through the tender route, there isn't much the manufacturers would be able to do about it. Add to it the fact that there is a separate tender created for 'Volvo' in many states where the tender specs would only match the 'Volvo' offering (a King Long or some other chinese player may participate for formality sake and eventually lose out).

So this new initiative by ALL is commendable as these buses are non-AC and addresses the right segment within the STC spectrum.