[KiloAlpha]

Originally Posted by balenoed_

The latest report and testimony by an eyewitness would answer that:

https://indianexpress.com/article/in...ficer-6549840/

If this is indeed the case, then the pilots failed to correctly execute a "touch and go" maneuver. Very similar to EK521 in Dubai - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emirates_Flight_521

I am just speculating here, but maybe the aircraft just failed to gain lift due to the fact that commercial pilots don't really practice touch-and-go procedures, and hence just could not execute it correctly in the 737-800. No doubt, the captain would surely have known how to do it in a MiG-21. But then, every aircraft is different.

[Rajeevraj]

Originally Posted by DrPriyankT

This may sound a bit off topic and excuse me for my limited understanding of Malabar geography. Why hasn’t Kannur Airport which has a longer runway, and isn’t a maligned tabletop runway slowly taking over operations from Karipur airport which has been criticised by many aviation safety experts? A simple google search reveals Kannur is just 95km away from Calicut. I have myself flown into Kannur airport, and its pretty well equipped to handle many more passengers than it is handling currently.Apologies again.

What you said will definitely happen. Kannur is a very new airport. As operations ramp up, it will definitely take away a good chunk of business from Calicut. For anyone north of Calicut and even from Wayanad ,Kannur is a very viable option. Number of services , especially domestic from Calicut has not increased much in the recent past.

Also, once you go south by an hour or so, Kochi becomes a feasible option and has much better connectivity too.

In short Calicut is now sandwiched between 2 newer, larger, more modern airports. So it would be a struggle to grow in the future.

Having said that, one thing going for Calicut is that road travel in Kerala is time consuming. So although distance wise it is only 90-100 km, that is easily 3 hrs drive.

[jayakumarkp]

Originally Posted by Rajeevraj

Also, once you go south by an hour or so, Kochi becomes a feasible option and has much better connectivity too.

An hour South of Calicut will get you to parts of Malappuram. No where near Kochin.. Kochin is about 4 hours of not more by road.

You've a very valid point about roadnetwork taking huge time between relatively short distances in Kerala.

Makes me wonder, if only Kerala had invested in atleast one strong Highway between the major cities...

Having stayed in Pune and spent considerable amount of time and effort travelling to Mumbai for international travel, I really appreciate airports being nearer to bigger cities/towns in kerala.

[dupe]

Not Sure how reliable the facts are per this article , but it seems like this Lawyer has been fighting for the safety of airport and Aircraft in general . He was contacted by the relatives of one of the passengers on the Managlore Air India Flight since then he has been very vocal about the flaws in our system , worth a read .

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/my-fi...e_article_view

https://www.thebetterindia.com/13900...airport-india/

"I hope the Judges do understand that this PIL is not filed to protect the ‘downtrodden and the poor’, this is intended to save the lives of the ‘rich, powerful, literate but ignorant’ class of the society who can afford to purchase air tickets. I am fighting for lives, lives that include that of the Judges, the advocates, the doctors, the businessmen. It is not anymore for my life or that of my family members. I have decided to strictly avoid flying at least for next two years after which I will make my own assessment of whether to fly or not”… “this PIL is not for my life, it’s for yours, My lords”

[ChoosetoCruze]

Originally Posted by NiInJa

I want to understand possible reasons why plane did not catch fire in this incident.

Excellent question. I think the links below are self explanatory.

https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Post_Crash_Fires

https://www.total.co.uk/ultimate-gui...-aviation-fuel

Quoted from the second link above -

At normal temperatures, aviation fuel gives off very little vapour. This means it doesn’t ignite easily and or form dangerous fuel-air mixtures. JET-A1, also has a flash point higher than 38˚C – crucial, as it makes the fuel less likely to combust unsafely.

The weather report issued by Calicut Airport around the time of the accident mentions a light westerly wind, visibility of 2000m, light rain, scattered clouds at 300ft above the airport and overcast skies at 8000ft above the airport, the ground temperature was 24deg Celsius, dew point of 23deg Celsius with a pressure of 1009 hectopascals. Additionally, there would be temporary periods of deteriorating visibility, reducing up to 1500m with light rain & mist.

In my opinion, the temperature at the airport was well below the flashpoint of Avtur. I don’t know how much of fuel did leak out from the fuel tanks/engine pylons but the survivors can be extremely thankful that there weren’t any sparks during the crash sequence.

The B737 aeroplane itself doesn’t have any post crash fire mitigation systems. It does have extinguishing agent to fight fires in the engines, the auxiliary power unit (APU), the cargo bays & the lavatories. However except the lavatory, all other extinguishing agents need to be discharged manually from the cockpit.

I hope that answers your question.

Originally Posted by KiloAlpha

I am just speculating here, but maybe the aircraft just failed to gain lift due to the fact that commercial pilots don't really practice touch-and-go procedures, and hence just could not execute it correctly in the 737-800. No doubt, the captain would surely have known how to do it in a MiG-21. But then, every aircraft is different.

I won’t compare this accident to the Emirates accident which you have linked because I believe that, from that accident report, that accident was more to do with automation dependence & mode confusion, together with some other contributing factors which created a deadly concoction of errors for all the reasons listed in that accident report. However what turned that incident into an accident was the pilot flying’s (Captain in that instance) lack of physically advancing the throttles after commanding the Auto-throttle system to go-around (increase engine thrust). What saved the lives of all on board was the fact that he flew a perfectly stable approach to the runway & went around as soon as he realised that the approach was getting unstable (not forcing/salvaging a landing & eating up precious runway). Also the fact that the aeroplane impacted the smooth runway surface itself and not elsewhere. As a result, the fuselage stayed intact.

Coming back to this accident in Calicut (Emirates too), I think what you are referring to, in Boeing nomenclature, is called a ‘Go-Around after Touchdown’. From my company B737 FCTM - attached below

The green highlighted text, it clearly tells us (the flight crew) to continue with normal go around procedures.

The red highlighted text, it’s self explanatory.

What this accident crew really did in the final minutes of the flight, the data recorder will tell us. Why they did what they did, the voice recorder & the accident report (conclusively) will tell us. However, with what evidence is available to us as of today, the actions/decisions of the PIC are extremely questionable, to say the least.

Regarding how often do we practice touch & go landings, at least at my operator, the answer is none, after we have completed the aircraft type rating/base training. And it is a manoeuvre which needs a check & training captain in the left seat and a safety pilot in the jumpseat. However, during everyday operations, it’s never used. Our goal is to fly a stabilised approach & safe touchdown. If anything doesn’t go to plan during the approach, we try to correct it ASAP. If unable, we are trained to go around immediately.

During our regular pilot proficiency check, our performance is evaluated by the government regulator certified, company simulator examiner to satisfactorily deal with various emergencies and land the aircraft safely following ALL procedures laid down by the aircraft manufacturer & company SOP.

With the accident PIC’s vast experience, his competence in operating the B737 is NOT in question. I am SURE he was fully capable of flying this aeroplane to the edge of its envelope. It’s a very easy airplane to fly for an average customer like me. However, in my opinion, why he didn’t have the situational awareness to foresee the consequences of his actions, I don’t know. And more importantly, what was the First Officer doing (assuming he was the pilot monitoring on this sector)? It would be illogical if the Captain didn’t assume control, if the FO was flying this approach. I predict Crew Resource Management (CRM) & Human Factors are going to be MASSIVE in the AAIB’s accident report.

[skanchan95]

Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau appoints Capt S S Chahar, former designated examiner on the Boeing 737NG to inquire into the accident.

[Thanos-VV]

As per the latest reports, the Mallapuram Police Chief and the District Collector, both in charge of the rescue efforts on that night are now tested positive for Covid-19. The CM of Kerala also has gone to self quarantine now since he was there next day to oversee the operations.

Many more officials, including DGP, are now gone to Self Quarantine. Hope all the villagers who attended the injured during the initial hours are all tracked and monitored.

https://www.thenewsminute.com/articl...talised-130735

[binaiks]

Originally Posted by Thanos-VV

Many more officials, including DGP, are now gone to Self Quarantine. Hope all the villagers who attended the injured during the initial hours are all tracked and monitored.

People who responded initially are already in quarantine - the health minister had announced the very next day that one of the passengers who perished in the crash had tested positive. Atleast one more passenger, undergoing treatment, tested positive as well.

[Jeroen]

Some doubt on the expertise of the investigation team. Apparently, this captain Chahar has no experience, no qualification, no training in accident investigations. None whatsoever.

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Interestingly, Capt Chahar's selection is in violation of AAIB's minimum eligibility criteria for being appointed as an Air Safety Investigator. AAIB's circular dated June 7, 2016, and available on the website of the Union Aviation Ministry, says that an air safety investigator should have minimum 25 years of experience in an air safety investigation, should have been a member of the transport aircraft accident investigations and should have undergone courses in aircraft accident investigations. Capt Chahar doesn't have any of these qualifications

https://www.outlookindia.com/website...xercise/358707


Remarkable. Are there no people who meet these requirements, or at least with actual aircraft investigation experience. Maybe had a few workshops on the subject?

[AMG Power]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Some doubt on the expertise of the investigation team. Apparently, this captain Chahar has no experience, no qualification, no training in accident investigations. None whatsoever.
....
Remarkable. Are there no people who meet these requirements, or at least with actual aircraft investigation experience. Maybe had a few workshops on the subject?

It's the rot within our aviation travel systems slowly rearing its ugly head. He has been given an out of turn posting. It's a no brainer as to why that has been done. As indicated in an earlier post:

Originally Posted by AMG Power

given that the DGCA and the Civil Aviation Ministry may themselves be partly to blame we may not get the entire story.

when the investigation itself may not be carried out properly, what results are we waiting for? The wrong ones?

Listen to the above discussion so that you may know all that's been happening in Calicut Airport. (it's quite a damning one)

Regardless of our facade of economic development and progress, at the grass root level we still think and behave like a third world country where the lives of its citizens have very little value.

[airbus]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Remarkable. Are there no people who meet these requirements, or at least with actual aircraft investigation experience. Maybe had a few workshops on the subject?

Originally Posted by AMG Power

It's the rot within our aviation travel systems slowly rearing its ugly head. He has been given an out of turn posting.

Considering that accident involved an aircraft manufactured in US, NTSB will be part of the investigation. Here is the news.

"As per requirements of Aircraft (Investigation of Accidents & Incidents) Rules 2017 & ICAO Annex 13, AAIB as State of Occurrence has notified NTSB being State of Manufacturer about the accident.

"Accordingly, NTSB (National Transportation Safety Board) has appointed Accredited Representative and Technical Advisors to assist in the investigation as per ICAO Annex 13 protocol," AAIB told PTI in an e-mailed statement.

So, I think there will be some transparency. Example, in the case of SilkAir Flight 185 accident, NTSB had a different conclusion than local investigators.

The cause of the crash was independently investigated by two agencies in two countries: the United States National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) and the Indonesian National Transportation Safety Committee (NTSC). The NTSB, which had jurisdiction based on Boeing's manufacture of the aircraft in the United States, investigated the crash under lead investigator Greg Feith. Its investigation concluded that the crash was the result of deliberate flight control inputs, "most likely by the captain". While the Indonesian NTSC investigators found that the there was "no concrete evidence" to support the pilot suicide allegation, and that the previously-suspected Parker-Hannifin hydraulic power control unit (PCU) had already been determined by the manufacturer to be defect-free, the final statement from the NTSC was that they were unable to determine a cause of the crash and thus inconclusive.

[NiInJa]

Its interesting to note that AAIB has not released any preliminary report on the accident even after a month. If I am not mistaken ICAO recommends releasing a preliminary report within a month or two of the incidence.
This is strengthening my belief that it was indeed a human error and somehow the system is trying to hide it considering the deceased Pilot's past achievements and associations are in public domain. Hope to be proven wrong

[balenoed_]

Things are getting moved from the site.

A proud moment must be for Tata:


And no signs of any preliminary report. Isn't it so difficult to get that out, given you have all the data in hand.

[ChoosetoCruze]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Some doubt on the expertise of the investigation team. Apparently, this captain Chahar has no experience, no qualification, no training in accident investigations. None whatsoever.

Remarkable. Are there no people who meet these requirements, or at least with actual aircraft investigation experience.

Originally Posted by NiInJa

Its interesting to note that AAIB has not released any preliminary report on the accident even after a month. If I am not mistaken ICAO recommends releasing a preliminary report within a month or two of the incidence.

Originally Posted by balenoed_

And no signs of any preliminary report. Isn't it so difficult to get that out, given you have all the data in hand.

What do you expect when the investigator in charge lacks the necessary qualification to conduct an air accident investigation? Following ICAO guidelines is the least of their worries, I think, given the way they been so quiet.

Apparently a report (doesn’t say preliminary or final) is expected in 4 months time (I’d take that with a grain of salt) - https://www.republicworld.com/india-...-5-months.html

Some footage of the accident aircraft recovery - https://www.republicworld.com/india-...way-watch.html

[balenoed_]

Originally Posted by balenoed_

A proud moment must be for Tata

And a Bharath Benz does the remaining of it:



pic courtesy: poster on an FB page.