5th June 2020, 20:49 | #61 | |
Distinguished - BHPian | Re: Air India One : The new official airplane of India's leaders
Thanks, I wonder to what extend those APUs can be used in the air. I would need to check my Operations Manuals, but on a regular 747 it is limited to about 15000 feet or thereabouts, which is way too low to cruise at. Also, I am not sure you can actually start it in the air. I wonder if they can run them in parallel to main generators? Having them power the aircraft and all its elaborate systems on the ground, rather than relying on ground power makes sense. Most likely standard ground power is simply not sufficient. Also, in some countries, ground power is unreliable in voltage/frequency. Standard aviation instruments and system don’t like that, let alone more advanced stuff. Quote:
I do wonder what that means for the standard aviation suite of the 747? E.g. the electronics used to fly and control the plane? Hardening of components on the physical and logical level means a complete re-design. I know that military planes often get designed with radiation threads as part of the design brief. But hardening existing hard- and software in flight controls, flight management systems? No idea how they do it. Planes designed for high altitude operation have already some “hardening” built into their design and systems to cope with various radiation aspects. Of course, it really depends against what you want to protect and to what levels. You get to close to an atomic bomb going off and no level of hardening will protect you. Jeroen | |
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5th June 2020, 22:10 | #62 |
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| Re: Air India One : The new official airplane of India's leaders Permit me to offer a counter point of view. Do we as a country with some number around 400 million in absolute poverty really need to spend what certainly is well over USD 1 billion on just VIP transport for the PM and at most one or two others? Their arrival by coincidence in the middle of a double crises is bad timing to add to the wound. The 737s in the Comm Sqn are entirely capable of having extra belly tanks fitted to give them a practical range of 4000 nautical miles. Those three are already equipped with the needed defensive measures and communications equipment. With 4000 nm you can reach almost any world capital with just one refuelling stop. Personally I believe this is an unwise expenditure and wrong signalling within the country. Brazil, a comparable country uses A319s with long range tanks. The best and most sensible solution from a cost and optics viewpoint is what Canada, Australia and now the UK follow -- as @ads11 said use a MRTT with a properly configured main deck. Of course this is just one man's view. Many may differ on grounds of national pride. |
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5th June 2020, 22:17 | #63 | |
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| Re: Air India One : The new official airplane of India's leaders Quote:
Last edited by DrPriyankT : 5th June 2020 at 22:18. | |
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5th June 2020, 22:49 | #64 | |||||
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| Re: Air India One : The new official airplane of India's leaders Quote:
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I will say the giant range of even little narrow body jets like the 737 and A320 family in their newest guises is such that I think they actually make really rather great options for executive transport. As dragracer567 pointed out, quite a few smaller European nations make do rather practically with smaller transports. Quote:
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5th June 2020, 23:38 | #65 | |
Distinguished - BHPian | Re: Air India One : The new official airplane of India's leaders
Well, when you are in the US Secret Service, paranoia is your middle name. A good friend of ours spend a number of years in the Sercet Service. Of course, there was not that much he could tell us, it was, obviously, secret (Duh ). But even so his stories always left me completely flabbergasted. Just the number of threats the US president gets on an annual basis is up there in tens of thousands. And we are talking about individuals who actually take the trouble to actually write to the White house!! Mostly anonymous, but still! There is much to be admired about the USA, but on many fronts it is also a very, very sick society! Quote:
And we have a cool king, who pilots it himself, so we save on pilot salary. Also, in the past when the Royals had to travel far, they would just get the cheapest commercial tickets available. The would not book our national carrier KLM, but for instance book Emirates to fly to “down under”. The KLM pilots were up in arms. But the Dutch public approved. Because although we love KLM, we hate KLM pilots with a vengeance for the indecent amount of money they earn. They also live abroad so they don’t have to pay Dutch income tax. The Dutch are not necessarily so much prudent, as much as they are just hardcore Calvinist! Maybe Mr Modi should consider getting a pilot license? Jeroen Last edited by Jeroen : 5th June 2020 at 23:42. | |
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6th June 2020, 06:24 | #66 | ||||
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| Re: Air India One : The new official airplane of India's leaders Quote:
Offcourse, right now this plane is just terrible optics but I’m not sure what the government can do other than receive the aircraft and start using it since because of its various upgrades, it cannot be sold back to the commercial market or even to private aviation without major expensive changes to convert it back to a civilian aircraft. The current Mexican president famously refused to use the B787 ordered by his predecessor and decided to give the plane away in a raffle since he couldn’t find anyone ready to buy the plane (I guess it didn’t have the countermeasures and other additional systems like the AF1 and AI1). It was joke amongst the Mexican people since even if someone won raffle, no one can really afford to fly it! So, he’s what they did: Quote:
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With regards to taxes, I wonder if that’s the case with Air India or any other international airline as well? Where do pilots pay their taxes? Let’s say for Ryanair, do their pilots pay their taxes in Ireland? Last edited by dragracer567 : 6th June 2020 at 06:28. | ||||
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6th June 2020, 07:51 | #67 | ||||
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| Re: Air India One : The new official airplane of India's leaders Quote:
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The Tupolevs were effectively a gift from USSR and served us well in Comm Sqn till the infamous crash in 1977 where the crew were killed but the then 82-year old PM Morarji Desai survived unscathed. Quote:
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The first of the lot. Vickers Viscount 700D. Like the current pair of B777's a pair was purchased under Indian Airlines' fleet order and then moved to the IAF to avoid noise in Parliament about ostentatious expenditure! They entered service with the IAF sometime around 1957 I think. The Tupolev's we were all so proud of. The Soviets used gifts of Tupolevs as Head of State transports to win Governments over :-) True. And it worked very well. The crash of 1977 B-737-200 | ||||
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6th June 2020, 08:13 | #68 |
BHPian | Re: Air India One : The new official airplane of India's leaders When these are re-fit to ferry the VVIP passengers , can understand the refit inside and the high sensitive communication equipment. But other than that , what really is the fuss about the counter measures in the plane itself. End of the day , these are bulky passenger carriers and can't do anything out of the operational ceiling they were designed for. My take is , the biggest counter measure say a plane like AF 1 can have is , armed to the teeth fghters escorting it anywhere across the Globe with the bases that US has. That is the effective counter measure such a VVIP plane can have. Rest all just exist on paper , when push comes to shove. Any expert insights into this? |
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6th June 2020, 09:24 | #69 |
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| Re: Air India One : The new official airplane of India's leaders
Understandably if someone knows he cannot speak :-) You may be underestimating what ECM can do. Of course if a rouge Govt decides to send two fighters to shoot it down by cannon fire then that is an open act of war. One suspects flight planning will avoid such countries. Very little AI-1 or any other Head of State can do about that. But ECM can protect you from rogue missile launches like what hit MH17 of Malaysian Airlines. ECM can do a lot more. |
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6th June 2020, 09:45 | #70 | ||
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| Re: Air India One : The new official airplane of India's leaders Quote:
My view - India, as a country certainly can afford it. But the optics are bad. Quote:
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6th June 2020, 10:15 | #71 | |
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| Re: Air India One : The new official airplane of India's leaders Quote:
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6th June 2020, 10:15 | #72 | ||
Senior - BHPian | Re: Air India One : The new official airplane of India's leaders Quote:
To play the devil's advocate, may be the 737 does not have the space to comfortably accommodate the PM's large entourage in long trips like to the US or Australia (businessmen, ministers, defence personnel etc),something which the AI 747 was able to do easily OR do the lesser mortals travel in a separate aircraft on such trips and only the PM & his select few travel on AI1? Quote:
Orders were placed for two Boeing 737s, these being "diverted" from Indian Airlines and in turn to be replaced by new aircraft when they were delivered. These two specially configured B737-200s, painted in Indian Air Force livery, were inducted in IAF's Air HQ & Comms Sqdn in August 1981 (Serial nos. K2370 & K2371, which were former Indian Airlines VT-EFM & VT-EFL respectively, delivered by Boeing to Indian Airlines in 1977) and were based at Palam airport, New Delhi. The interior configuration for these aircraft were installed by Indian Airlines engineers with the design of the internal cabin and decor being configured for VIPs. The major maintenance work was the responsibility of Indian Airlines while line maintenance work was responsibility of the IAF. These VIP 737s were flown by IAF pilots of the Air HQ & Comms Sqdn. After two new VIP 737-200s were delivered (registrations unknown), K2370 & K2371 were given back to Indian Airlines in early/mid-1984 and they resumed their service with Indian Airlines with their former civilian registrations as VT-EFL & VT-EFM. In 1991, VT-EFL, operating as flight IC257 from Kolkata to Imphal crashed near Imphal with the loss of all on board. However, later four more 737s were diverted from Indian Airlines fleet to the IAF. The first one being VT-EHX which became K2413 VT-EHX became K2413 These four 737s ( serial nos. K2412, K2413, K3186 & K3187 which were former VT-EHW, EHX, EAJ & EAK) remained with the IAF for the rest of their service lives probably because atleast two of them were permanently modified with sensitive communication and/or EW/ESM equipment. Notice the array of antennas and bulges on the belly of these two IAF 737-200s K2412 (ex-Indian Airlines VT-EHW) K2413 (ex-Indian Airlines VT-EHX) He as well Last edited by skanchan95 : 6th June 2020 at 10:36. | ||
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6th June 2020, 10:31 | #73 | |
Distinguished - BHPian | Re: Air India One : The new official airplane of India's leaders As per this news, these planes will be flown by IAF with Air India acting as a "co-pilot" for initial phase and then the operations will be fully under control of IAF. Quote:
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6th June 2020, 12:19 | #74 | ||
Distinguished - BHPian | Re: Air India One : The new official airplane of India's leaders Quote:
We were ok with our little Fokker for a while under such a regime of course! Quote:
For pilots and for instance also sea farers, there might be an additional rule based on where the control of airline/shipping company resides. (which is not necessarily where it has its (fiscal) head quarter. Diplomats being resident in different countries tend to have different fiscal rules all together. But it is a very complex system and there always endless amendments made to these fiscal regimes and how various countries deal with them. Don’t forget about social securities too. That tends to be even more complex. Where you pay and where you could claim benefits. Have a look at this: https://stolwijkkelderman.nl/pilots-...cial-security/ I have lived in a number of different countries and always ended up paying my (income) taxes in whichever country I happened to be officially resident. Whereas there are many kind of different taxes, even for private individuals, all countries seem to have some sort of income tax, whether you are employed or self employed. When I was in the merchant navy I was resident in the UK, working for a Dutch company. There was an arrangement between the UK and the Netherlands. My Dutch employer would pay my social security and pension in the Netherlands, but my income tax was handled in the UK. At the time the UK had a so called 183 day regime. If you were a resident of the UK, but spend 183 days or more per year abroad, you were more or less tax exempt. In those days seafarers easily spend 8-9 months a year working, so that applied to me. When I lived in India I paid income tax in India on my income in India. Not over other sources of income worldwide. Only after so many days registered as a resident did I become liable to pay other Indian personal taxes as well. In practice that worked out to be after almost 4 years for me. Jeroen Last edited by Jeroen : 6th June 2020 at 12:48. | ||
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6th June 2020, 13:43 | #75 | |
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| Re: Air India One : The new official airplane of India's leaders Quote:
Khrushchev would certainly have felt going about in an IL 14 a national disgrace, so the TU114. The day we can do something similar, I'm all for it. If you have no part of it except paying for it, don't bring patriotism/ nationalism/ jingoism into it. Sutripta | |
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