[Samir Taheer]

Hello Hello,

We have been looking for a truck to modify and serve as a Craft Fire Tender (CFT) for our company airfield. Hoping to get some help from forum members on recommendations and contacts. Its been difficult because not many manufacturers offer AWD trucks.

So here's what we've done so far --

Contacted - Bharat Benz, TATA, Ashok Leyland.

Bharat Benz do not have AWD trucks

TATA and Ashok Layland manufacture the LPTA 2068 and Stallion. The Stallion does not meet out Tonnage requirements, whereas TATA has been very non-committal on supply of the 2068 - Which would be the ideal Engine/Chassis.

Both these are developed and supplied for the Indian Forces and serve there purpose rather well.

Basic CFT Spec Requirements
Need to have a capacity of 20 Tons +
The truck will have body built to accommodate - 7900 Liters of Water; 1000 Liters of Foam; 225 Kgs Dry Powder plus motors, monitors and auxiliary fire fighting equipment
Acceleration - 80 Km/h within 25 Seconds
Top Speed - 105 Km/h
Must have AWD capability - 4x4 or more
6x4 or 6x8, etc will not work. It has to be AWD.
Minimum angle of Approach and Departure - 30 Degrees
Minimum Tilt - 30 Degrees

We are open to two things --
1) Buying an AWD Truck which seems difficult at the moment. There are tons of suppliers willing to build the body.

2) Modifying a truck into AWD - At the moment (based on my next statement) this seems to be the best options. So the question is, who's experienced enough to do this?

Yes we can import a truck, but the cost's are way to high. Based on the 3 yr rule, we'd have to pay anything over 2 Crores for an Import. As a private airfield that's a big ask!

Looking forward to your recommendations!

[AdityaDeane]

I'm not too sure if they will meet your requirements, but you can contact Swaraj Mazda Limited Isuzu Motors. They have at least 2 trucks with 4x4 ability in their product portfolio (www.smlisuzu.com/ProductsLanding.aspx):-

1. 4x4 Truck under the Special Applications vehicles -> http://www.smlisuzu.com/productlisti...&productid=107

2. Sartaj 4WD XM under Trucks T3500 vehicles -> http://www.smlisuzu.com/productlisti...&productid=136

[Rahul Rao]

Only option you have is something from Tata defense series.
https://www.tatamotors.com/products/defence/
If you go down to Combat support vehicles, you will see 6X6, 8X8, 10X10 and even 12X12. Depending on curb weight of the chassis itself, a 6X6 or an 8X8 should work for you.


Rahul

[Samir Taheer]

Originally Posted by AdityaDeane

1. 4x4 Truck under the Special Applications vehicles -> www.smlisuzu.com/productlisting.aspx?ProductCategory=3&ProductCompa ny=1&productid=107

2. Sartaj 4WD XM under Trucks T3500 vehicles -> www.smlisuzu.com/productlisting.aspx?ProductCategory=1&ProductCompa ny=1&productid=136

Thanks but both trucks are sub 7 Tons. We need in excess of 25 Tons.

Originally Posted by Rahul Rao

https://www.tatamotors.com/products/defence/
If you go down to Combat support vehicles, you will see 6X6, 8X8, 10X10 and even 12X12. Depending on curb weight of the chassis itself, a 6X6 or an 8X8 should work for you.

Yup, we are in talks with TATA, but they are exactly as you have stated - For Defense Applications. Getting one of these for private use is quite difficult.

[KMT]

Cant you buy a scrapped one from army disposals and have it completely rebuilt?

[howler]

Tatra 6x6x6 - army disposal. Remember seeing something about them coming up for sale by the army - disposal.

[Rahul Rao]

Originally Posted by Samir Taheer

Yup, we are in talks with TATA, but they are exactly as you have stated - For Defense Applications. Getting one of these for private use is quite difficult.

Is a AWD chassis something specified for Fire tender by the AAI or something.
Tata also supplies these 6X6 trucks to UN, Bangladesh etc, so a defence ministry NOC may be required.
You can also try Eicher they are entering defense and mining, and may have a 6X6

[Sutripta]

Originally Posted by Samir Taheer

We have been looking for a truck to modify and serve as a Craft Fire Tender (CFT) for our company airfield.

Not related to your query, but is there a classification of airfields and the minimum facilities needed for each?

With Udaan, I would think some manufacturer should have plans for serial manufacture of these vehicles.

Regards
Sutripta

[hserus]

Did you try Volvo with their fm420 (though I think that’s 16 tons) and fmx (used for mining etc so much higher tonnage) trucks?

[GTO]

Originally Posted by AdityaDeane

I'm not too sure if they will meet your requirements, but you can contact Swaraj Mazda Limited Isuzu Motors. They have at least 2 trucks with 4x4 ability in their product portfolio

Here's a picture of one. A BHPian's uncle owns it. OP can reach out to him for more info - related post:

[Samir Taheer]

Originally Posted by KMT

Cant you buy a scrapped one from army disposals and have it completely rebuilt?

Thanks. Yes we've considered this already, but speed and acceleration requirements would not be met.

Originally Posted by howler

Tatra 6x6x6 - army disposal. Remember seeing something about them coming up for sale by the army - disposal.

Thankks. These seem to be the best fit. We're keeping a look out

Originally Posted by Rahul Rao

Is a AWD chassis something specified for Fire tender by the AAI or something.

Yes the AWD is a ICAO/DGCA requirement.

Originally Posted by Sutripta

Not related to your query, but is there a classification of airfields and the minimum facilities needed for each?

With Udaan, I would think some manufacturer should have plans for serial manufacture of these vehicles.

Regards
Sutripta

Tata are the only ones with a Tonnage that manufacture these vehicles in India. But since manufacture is under contract with the Army, they are (for now ateast) unwilling to supply into civilian requirements.

Aerodromes are category 1-10 depending on the size of runway, services, etc. This is a Category 6 Aerodrome.

Whilst most airports would import vehicles from someone like Rosenbauer, these cost 3 Cr ++. Which we cannot afford at the moment.

Originally Posted by hserus

Did you try Volvo with their fm420 (though I think that’s 16 tons) and fmx (used for mining etc so much higher tonnage) trucks?

Thanks. Just spoke to them. They are working out how much it would cost to import one. They have none for sale within the country..


The question is - What if the company bought a normal 25 Ton truck. Could it be modified into an AWD?

[hserus]

You might need to import

AAI has some Tatras probably sourced from the defence forces and modified (not easy for civilians but may be easier for a government department) and then an Austrian import from Rosenbauer

CFT Panther – Rosenbaur make, imported from Austria.
CFT Agnivijay & Agnishatru – TATRA make, imported from Czech Republic.

Try the Eastern European and Chinese truck manufacturers as they’d probably be cheaper for you to import.

The Rosenbauer unfortunately costs about 5 crore according to some articles I read

https://www.rosenbauer.com/en/int/ro...he-new-panther

[Sutripta]

Originally Posted by Samir Taheer

The question is - What if the company bought a normal 25 Ton truck. Could it be modified into an AWD?

If the company have both a regular model, and an AWD variant, and you have access to the companies parts bin, then theoretically yes. If it is to tick off something on a checklist.
If it is actually meant to perform in an emergency, I would say don't go down that route.

At 25 tons official, I think you'll need three axles. Which also means both the rear axles have to be driven.

Regards
Sutripta

[Rahul Rao]

Originally Posted by hserus

You might need to import. AAI has some Tatras probably sourced from the defence forces and modified (not easy for civilians but may be easier for a government department) and then an Austrian import from Rosenbauer

"AAI specifications show

DETAILS OF ARFF
Airports Authority of India, Airport Fire Service equipped with modern Fire Fighting Equipments, Appliances and Rescue Equipments imported in nature, which meet ICAO and other international standards, viz-

1. Airfield Crash Fire Tenders – xxx nos.
2. 1. CFT Panther – Rosenbaur make, imported from Austria.
   2. CFT Agnivijay & Agnishatru – TATRA make, imported from Czech Republic."
   This seems to point to the fact that only these two makes are authorized, and no other Indian ones will do.

Rahul

[hserus]

If there is an ICAO certification for the vehicle (and that means only manufacturer built bodies for the most part .. the tatra mods, given the Agnivijay and Agnishatru names, might be done at some government workshop that AAI obtained certification for), then you are left with just those choices.

But this means you have the whole world to import from - there are Chinese / Eastern European brands as well that might be cheaper. Or used fire trucks. Several brands listed here. https://www.aeroexpo.online/aeronaut...ruck-1309.html

eg https://www.aeroexpo.online/prod/wei...053-25685.html