[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by Sutripta

Indonesian report: - lots of articles all over the place. But where is the actual report?

No idea,
I have been keeping an eye on this site since Friday but nothing!

http://knkt.dephub.go.id/knkt/ntsc_aviation/aaic.htm

Jeroen

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by Sutripta

Indonesian report: - lots of articles all over the place. But where is the actual report?

Final report up on the site I mentioned before, 2018 section.
What do you think?

Jeroen

[Sutripta]

^^^
322 pages. (Analysis part is only 20 pages. But obviously the whole report has to be read.)
I'll let others do the synopsis. But need opposing interpretations.

However I did go to the section on XTRA Aerospace (pg 140) because that was a new name which had cropped up. Interesting to note that the AoA sensor was a repaired one, and that Xtra stopped working on these soon after the Lion Air crash.

Regards
Sutripta

[Jeroen]

Quite a long read. It does paint a certain picture of howcertain American companies put everything aside for share holder value and margin.

https://newrepublic.com/article/1549...ial-revolution

[Sutripta]

^^^
Now to wait for Mother Jones and Vox to join in. And WSJ and Forbes to come swinging right back. (Somehow I find Bloomberg more 'balanced'. But then my knowledge of finance doesn't go beyond my bank balance and credit card bills.)

Well compiled, but there is nothing new on the engineering front in the report. Paints the background to the engineering missteps - financial and management decisions.

Maybe there is a reason why German engineering is held in such high regard. Germany does/ did not really have this culture of wide public stock ownership. (I think DT was the first major really public stock offering. Could be absolutely totally wrong though).

Regards
Sutripta

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Quite a long read. It does paint a certain picture of howcertain American companies put everything aside for share holder value and margin.

https://newrepublic.com/article/1549...ial-revolution

Long indeed, but well worth the read.

[Jeroen]

For those who do not want to go trough 322 pages, as usual the AV does a pretty good job of summarising and stitching various bits of the report together:

http://avherald.com/h?article=4bf90724/0010&opt=0

[the_skyliner]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

That may be a politically correct statement, but the reality is that Airbus stands to gain from any misstep by Boeing, and vice-versa. To say otherwise is to be naive. Is Airbus going to publicly and voluntarily order a review of any safety issues (like A321 pitching issues) unless being ordered by the authorities ? Most likely not. But going by the current Max disclosures, it will definitely try to discreetly clean up its act in terms of design/testing and related compliances.

Even though Airbus may use Max issue to discreetly run preventive actions, it will not publicly use Max issues to sell their product. That is not how aerospace industry works.

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

No doubt Airbus will be discreetly double checking everything. But where co-operation on flight safety goes the view from the tarmac or cockpit is one of unselfish co-operation amongst aviation entities (airlines, operators, MRO etc) with each other in terms of lending expertise, spares, tools, personnel etc in times of a crises or difficulty and this is often done with minimal or no commercial consideration. I don't know if other industries have this practice.

That's absolutely true and I don't think any other industry follows this. And that is why flying is the safest mode of transport and expected to remain so.

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by the_skyliner

Even though Airbus may use Max issue to discreetly run preventive actions, it will not publicly use Max issues to sell their product. That is not how aerospace industry works.

Of course Airbus will not publicly talk about the Max issues. But, there are only two significant players in the commercial aircraft world today. And they cannot but help selling the virtues of their products to contrast the vices of the competitor and it would be natural to do so. They are not going to tout the safety record of say, a 321 vs a 737-800/900 because all that is public knowledge for any airline operator. But at a detailed level, F2F with the airline customer, there will certainly be some things that either Boeing or Airbus might do to prove the competitive advantage.

[Jeroen]

The question is really about whether this whole Max mishap will really make a difference whether carriers choose Boeing over Airbus or vice versa.

It will not make any impact for the near future, not even the first few years. Both have production capacity constraints. So quickly changing your Boeing order for an Airbus order is simply not going to gain you anything.

You will find yourself at the end of long delivery queue at Airbus.

Personally, looking at how similar scenario’s are playing out in other industries, I do not think it will make any difference whatsoever, other than in the terms and conditions Boeing will need to swallow in future contracts.

I do not think customers all of a sudden will change their mind, but they will use the Max fiasco to make more T&Cs demand on Boeing, when placing their orders. More penalties, better assurances etc.

I was reading an article in today’s paper about how apprehensive passengers might be, to step into the Max, once it is declared airworthy again. If that happens, that would be the real blow to Boeing. If, passengers simply refuse to fly a Max, that would definitely re-shape this industry.

Aviation has had its share of tragic accident due to design faults before (e.g. Havilland Comet). But never on a scale like this and never due to apparent “profit before safety” as displayed by Boeing. Neither did we have any social media at the time. This whole Boeing fiasco is still in all main stream media.

A few American carriers have already pledged to re-book passengers who do not wish to fly the Max on other non Max routes. But of course, most carriers will simply not be in a position to over alternatives. Either you fly the Max, or you do not. With many charter companies you never know what type of plane might show up, until parked at the gate. What are you going to do, walk away, loose your ticket and not take that holiday, trip to see the grand kids, business trip etc?

I think we will see some media hype around the first Max’s returning to service.
A year from now, all of this is likely to be forgotten.

Jeroen

[Sutripta]

Originally Posted by Sutripta

Now to wait for Mother Jones and Vox to join in. And WSJ and Forbes to come swinging right back.

Not really what I was expecting. But also no real news, insights, or opinions.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-is-...=djemwhatsnews

[Jeroen]

I came across this audio interview with D.P. Davies.

Davies is a bit of a legend in aviation circles. Amongst other for many years he was Chief Test Pilot of the UK Airworthiness Authority. He was the guy who had the ultimate say on air worthiness from a pilot’s / flying point of view

The interview is interesting for anybody who wants to hear about the experiences of a real test pilot.

In relation to this thread and the recent upheaval around Boeing and FAA, listen to what Mr. Davies thought about the FAA in his days. Start from 36 minutes onwards.

https://www.aerosociety.com/news/aud...the-v-bombers/

As you will hear, he even in those days, was less than impressed. He also gives some concrete examples. It does make you wonder what the FAA reputation was based on. Maybe this is just a bit of British “not made in our factory, so we won’t like it / certify it”> Could be.

Davies has published various books and papers throughout his career.

He is probably best known for his “Handling the big Jets”. Which is an official Civil Aviation Authority publication. Currently in its third or fourth edition. A bit dated, but if you want to do a bit or reading up on intricacies of flying and handling big jets, this book is the best way to get started. Covers all the basics

His Handling the big Jets sits together with Stanely Stewart Flying the big Jets on my book shelve.

Jeroen

[Thermodynamics]

Boeing Co Chief Executive Dennis Muilenburg says “We know we made mistakes” at a US House hearing (Reuters).

A tight slap: Congressman Dan Lipinski of Illinois, where Boeing is headquartered, told Muilenburg: "I am not sure what accountability means if you got a $15 million bonus after Lion Air" (NDTV)

[ads11]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-50244699

Uh oh, this doesn't look great at all for Boeing. I mean of course right now, what with the public thirst for stories related to Boeing messing up, any little story will get picked up and amplified over a media microphone but it's not going to help one bit if doubts spread beyond the MAX to the whole family now (at least in the eyes of Joe Public).

[Sutripta]

^^^
I think the advisory for the cracking issue went out end Sep or early Oct. And of course after that airlines are finding it. And the news channels are finding it even more.

Regards
Sutripta