[Annibaddh]

Originally Posted by ksameer1234

Mumbai-Ahmedabad route has Shatabdi and Karnavati express for same day return along with other express trains which are scheduled similarly. Also there are good 4-5 early morning flights to and fro these cities. Inspite of all this, Shatabdi train rarely runs with empty seats and it is common to find tatkal tickets running out quickly. Same goes for flights. Next day flight are rarely sold for less than 5k and 7-8k one-way fare is not atypical.

Multiple other reasons too.

1. I wouldn't be surprised if larger interest came from the mid stations of Baroda & Surat, which have even poorer flight connectivity.

2. Entry and exit by road to major cities is unlikely to get any better. The ability to reach center of the city and not having to arrive an hour before departure is a massive advantage.

3. It'll free up the regular gauge for both goods and long distance passenger traffic. This is crucial capacity so desperately needed on the choked Delhi - Mumbai rail route.

[Nav-i-gator]

Originally Posted by Simhi

May be off topic but asking out of curiosity - Is track / gauge going to be used by Shinkansen trains compatible with our existing broad gauge? Basically, why not use the new infrastructure to run our existing trains at high speed too - may be not at 300+ kmph but at least 160 to 180 kmph. Many times I hear that our existing wagons and engines are capable of 180 kmph but they don't run at these speeds due to our existing tracks.

The tracks would be standard gauge for Bullet train, different from broad gauge that IR operates. That is the clarity so far.

[The Rationalist]

This is a monumental blunder. The Japanese High rail technology has no takers except Taiwan ( You know why! ). The inflated cost makes up for the low long term loan interest rate. Chinese high speed rail is available at a significantly cheaper cost. This is big loss for the exchequer by any means.

To reduce travel time between Mumbai and Ahmedabad by 3 hours is not the priority where life expectancy is 65 years, while here in Kerala it is 75 years. You want to save 3 hours or 10 years is the real question? Development is not travelling at breakneck speeds, just because some key board warriors have a good life doesn't mean the ordinary citizens should die young.

[PetrolRider]

Originally Posted by Simhi

May be off topic but asking out of curiosity - Is track / gauge going to be used by Shinkansen trains compatible with our existing broad gauge? Basically, why not use the new infrastructure to run our existing trains at high speed too - may be not at 300+ kmph but at least 160 to 180 kmph. Many times I hear that our existing wagons and engines are capable of 180 kmph but they don't run at these speeds due to our existing tracks.

They are different from standard railway tracks even in Japan.

It is like having Expressways, NH and other city roads. We can't upgrade city roads and make them expressway, similarly HSR tracks are kept separate than traditional railway tracks for operational, efficiency, safety and cost point of view.

[sri_tesla]

Good to see thread on Bullet Train on Team-BHP. While there seems to be many people that are against this project, I am hoping that this will be completed in time (5-6 years) and will be very successful so that we will have similar lines across India similar to golden quadrilateral, Direct fright corridor etc...

When the Delhi metro is being planned, many were criticizing for taking up such high cost project. First 3 phases of Delhi metro cost a lot of money and funded majorly by Japan only.

For more details on Delhi metro costs and funding:
http://www.delhimetrorail.com/funding.aspx

20 years later Delhi metro is now one of the top metros in the world and in the next 2-3 years its going to be in top 5 in terms of length.

It also lead to metros in many other cities across India and for most of these new metros, DMRC is the consultant. Also many companies established the metro coach factories in India in different states resulting in new investment and jobs.

Update on this Bullet train project:
Construction of training center is started. It will be setup in Vadodara with the capacity to train 4,000 staff. For more details see the below link.
http://themetrorailguy.com/2017/09/1...e-in-vadodara/

[Nav-i-gator]

Originally Posted by The Rationalist

This is a monumental blunder. The Japanese High rail technology has no takers except Taiwan ( You know why! ). The inflated cost makes up for the low long term loan interest rate. Chinese high speed rail is available at a significantly cheaper cost. This is big loss for the exchequer by any means.

To reduce travel time between Mumbai and Ahmedabad by 3 hours is not the priority where life expectancy is 65 years, while here in Kerala it is 75 years. You want to save 3 hours or 10 years is the real question? Development is not travelling at breakneck speeds, just because some key board warriors have a good life doesn't mean the ordinary citizens should die young.

Ha, clever to connect life expectancy with travel time reduction. Living in a private hospital ward, equipped with state of the art life support system and insulated from the outside world would increase the life expectancy of an individual by 10 years. But would anyone like to do that? Baing able to walk up to the ticket counter, buy ticket, go to Mumbai for some small business need, and come back the same day to spend quality time at your home with your loved ones - this is any day better than living a few years more when you are already old and non-productive.



Zindagi badi honi chahiye babumoshai, lambi nahi (life should be big, not long)

[Saanil]

Originally Posted by ksameer1234

This is it: https://www.jica.go.jp/english/our_w...00009v1z03.pdf

I skimmed through the report. It seems this is a report for estimating the cost incurred due to relocation of local people from the implementation of the project. It does not give any details about the cost of the project. In case I have missed it, please let me know.

[saurabh2711]

Can't we take away the learning from this project & implement them on to our infrastructure specially in terms of safety (of tracks). We have existing & known tracks which are capable of doing 150+, but for the sheer concern of the safety & resultant accidents, this speed may not be practiced. I am sure the resultant technology import will be implemented on the existing infrastructure to make the existing trains faster if not equal to the bullet trains.

Hyper-loop can go in parallel if any other country is ready to invest, operate & recover the cost applied. Similar to this project.
Don't want to get political here (read don't want any infractions reported), we are still a developing economy for many reasons. We do not have funds, technology to implement such massive projects in India, hence the partnerships like this with other countries. Nothing wrong, right? But we have manpower & attitude to attain this. So let the guidance come from somewhere.

AS far as money going back to Japan, isn't this why we invest in under construction buildings: TO have some returns.
Japan can have the management & technology governance of this project, but the ground staff is us. Labor is us. Few employment opportunities for both & massive learning for us.

Lets cherish & hope it gets completed till 2022, considering the amount of land to be acquired for this & the smoothness at which we can attain this . Example Mumbai Nagpur Expressway land issues.

Regards,
Saurabh.

[Dieselritzer]

Wow, indeed a high speed level of stupidity! Now before you folks start thinking of bashing me, let me elaborate more on why i think this project should not be a priority right now.

I stay in Mumbai, being a salaried person I have to pay tax, the roads in my cities are absolutely crap. In fact it might put some planet to shame, such are the undulations. The basic infrastructure is utterly horrible, and getting worst day by day. Real estate rates are insane, hence more and more people are moving towards the edge of the city (read Thane/Virar/Navi Mumbai/Etc), thus increasing the volume of people who travel towards the city for work (what we call as the peak hour rush).

Now when the city is crumbling inside, why are we spending so much money on something which is not really a burning need right now? Let us first ensure people within the city will move faster, and in a more convenient way. Let us ensure the road quality is top notch! Let us ensure the garbage is treated more efficiently rather than just dumping it on the city outskirts. Check google maps for Gorai, Bhandup, Thane area and you'll see the mangroves or mountains we are eating just to create landfill zones.

Look at the way women travel to work, worst so, the elderly or pregnant. Handicapped ones aren't even considered to be citizens in our country. Mumbai Metro is the only exception which is a wheel-chair friendly mode of transport. BEST is going bankrupt. Auto rickshaw drivers are more moody than anyone else. Forget catching a 6PM Virar local without saying a long prayer.

Every time it starts raining heavily, i start checking on my family. Such is a filthy life here. Kids dont know what mud is, as there are no grounds left. They only know what a Mall is.

You'll now get what I am talking about. Why are we not spending on improving the standard of living for a city that gives the Govt so much of revenue in the form of taxes?

Coming to the bullet train, I have had the opportunity to travel in the Shinkansen extensively across the entire length of Japan. It is truly a marvel. Punctuality, cleanliness, infrastructure, everything about it is jaw dropping! The roads that lead to those stations, or the metro connectivity to it, or the parking space outside it, everything was first taken care of. Imagine taking 2 hours to reach Mumbai in the bullet train, and then taking 2 hours in a damn Uber to drive home barely few kms away! It would be a great joke to tweet when it happens.

Even today, folks taking a flight to the city take equal amount of time to reach home from the airport as was their flight duration.

I am not Anti-development, i am Anti-Stupidity. Fix the pot hole outside my house. Make sure my mom can travel to work in decent comfort. Ensure the kids get a chance to scrap their knees while playing football.

Make our living better, then make our travel faster!

Rant Over!

[ksameer1234]

Originally Posted by Saanil

I skimmed through the report. It seems this is a report for estimating the cost incurred due to relocation of local people from the implementation of the project. It does not give any details about the cost of the project. In case I have missed it, please let me know.

My bad. I went through the contents page quickly and thought this is it!! There are resettlement action plans and environment impact studies but I doubt detailed cost considerations would be made public.

[Nav-i-gator]

Originally Posted by Dieselritzer

Wow, indeed a high speed level of stupidity! Now before you folks start thinking of bashing me, let me elaborate more on why i think this project should not be a priority right now.

well, I agree with your rant (If I rant, that would be same as yours). And my hopes are same as yours. Not negating anything you said, just this - Had the planners of Mumbai (at the time it was starting to grow) thought of long term sustainability of a growing urban centre, much of the seemingly endless problems with Mumbai had not been there today.

I cannot change my past, can only try to improve my present. But I (and most of us) try to insure we have a good future. True, it may not be a too much needed mode of transport today, but 10-20 years hence? the outskirts and suburbs of the city would have become the "extended centre". Mumbai can't grow anymore, the urban "landmass" around mumbai can only sustain the pressure, and need is to make the present day's far flung areas to become readily accessible so that people can come and go, rather than having no choice but to live in the mess called Mumbai.

[ssambyal1980]

Misplaced Priorities
The priority of the government should be to upgrade the existing railways infrastructure on a war footing rather than spending precious funds on introducing high speed bullet trains.The tragic loss of precious lives has been quite painful in the wake of recent train accidents. Once again serious questions are being raised over the implementation of safety infrastructure in the Indian Railways. The frightening frequency of the accidents is a testimony to the very fact that the railways has been seriously plagued by poor and crumbling infrastructure. Old tracks have been the root cause of derailments along with crumbling rolling stock which needs immediate replacement. The conventional ICF design coaches are not crash worthy and topple proof as compared to the state of the art LHB design coaches, hence the former needs to be completely replaced by the latter. The complete safety overhaul of the railway system will cost more than INR 1,00,000 crore. Whereas the bullet train project between Ahmadabad and Mumbai alone will cost INR 1,10,000 crore. This is nothing but a clear case of misplaced priorities in a nation where 80% of the railway travellers come from poor strata of society.

[pratyush6]

Originally Posted by Dieselritzer

Wow, indeed a high speed level of stupidity! Now before you folks start thinking of bashing me, let me elaborate more on why i think this project should not be a priority right now.

I am not Anti-development, i am Anti-Stupidity. Fix the pot hole outside my house. Make sure my mom can travel to work in decent comfort. Ensure the kids get a chance to scrap their knees while playing football.

Make our living better, then make our travel faster!

Rant Over!

This is a rant and unfortunately even though I agree with most of what you say, one cannot really compare the two situations. Japan won't give you a loan at a nominal rate (though we know the reasons why) for fixing potholes (we do not need a loan for that anyway).

These arguments have been there since eternity and they will be there till eternity. Recent examples are Bandra Worli Sealink, GGN - DEL Expressway and others.It might not make economic sense probably even in 5 years from now. But what needs to understand is the learnings, the technological leap, the bi-products of such an exercise. Imagine the Americans were up in arms over going to the Moon, it was, is and would be a wasteful expense, but that resulted is inventions that are used even now. Fingers crossed, we can do this in stipulated time.

[Nav-i-gator]

Originally Posted by ssambyal1980

Misplaced Priorities
The priority of the government should be to upgrade the existing railways infrastructure on a war footing rather than spending precious funds on introducing high speed bullet trains.The tragic loss of precious lives has been quite painful in the wake of recent train accidents. Once again serious questions are being raised over the implementation of safety infrastructure in the Indian Railways. The frightening frequency of the accidents is a testimony to the very fact that the railways has been seriously plagued by poor and crumbling infrastructure. Old tracks have been the root cause of derailments along with crumbling rolling stock which needs immediate replacement. The conventional ICF design coaches are not crash worthy and topple proof as compared to the state of the art LHB design coaches, hence the former needs to be completely replaced by the latter. The complete safety overhaul of the railway system will cost more than INR 1,00,000 crore. Whereas the bullet train project between Ahmadabad and Mumbai alone will cost INR 1,10,000 crore. This is nothing but a clear case of misplaced priorities in a nation where 80% of the railway travellers come from poor strata of society.

But the problem is - no country is willing to fund the IR modernization while many countries were trying to grab the bullet train project. The loan condition is pretty good from Japan. the feasibility studies were already taken up and completed (started by previous Govt only).

I need to repair my house but no bank was willing to give me loan. So I bought a new house with home loan for which multiple banks were after me to take. What wrong did I do?

[srishiva]

You know who introduced the The Bullet Train in India ? Well, its good to be answers to such questions. If the Japanese could only fund roads in India and design/build themselves at a fraction of this cost ?