[shravan2k2]

I hope Mr. Anand Mahindra reads the following 11 points!

Mahindra Swaraj Tractors has been taking the farmer community for a ride. Their top selling 735FE tractor is having a major engine design flaw, which is bound to create acute engine problems if it is not solved at the earliest. Farmers being uneducated and unaware of such a problem have not raised their voice and many are still unaware of any such flaw. The company has not been able to solve it and have been making excuses on the same for last two years.

Let me first give you some background!

We have been associated with Mahindra Swaraj Tractors for quite a long time (more than 21 years), owning their various tractors in the past. My Father being an educated farmer we know quite a lot because of his engineering background. We bought a brand new 735FE tractor in January 2014.

Now let me come to the main engine problem of the present tractor. We have been fighting for the same since two years now.

1 - The Mahindra Swaraj 735FE tractor actually starts throwing coolant from the back up tank, which makes its way to the alternator. This has been seen to be more prominent in winters when the ambient temperature is low. As the spill is on the alternator, it damaged the Alternator. When the issue was taken up with dealer, the dealer rejected our claim and out rightly told it is not covered under warranty. This was first reported in the month of December 2014. It not only spills coolant it also consumes it heavily (approximately one liter after 15/20 hours of running). This is more visible during winters as the engine does not attain the minimum temperature. Even when the coolant back up tank is full, the level in the radiator goes down.

2 - The issue again cropped up and the dealer agreed to change the Thermostat Valve. Prior to this within a week the issue again cropped up and the same was repeated. Once the sowing season was over, our tractor was not running for long and hence was lying idle.

3 - In November 2015 the same issue cropped up and was reported to the dealer again, and the dealer again changed the Thermostat valve. After approximately 10 hours of tractor's running time, the same coolant issue was observed. This time the dealer changed the radiator.

4 – The dealer did his best, Mr Kuldeep Singh from the company checked and adviced to check the coolant circuit and the water pump was changed. Coolant throwing was again observed.

5 – There were many individuals who checked the tractor for issue from the dealer side and Mr Kuldeep and Mr Balwinder Singh of Mahindra Swaraj Tractors, but it was of no help. Next the water body was changed and the old radiator was reinstalled, but all in vain.

6 – Post all the measures at dealer level we took this matter to the company and started contacting the company on the same. Mr Jatinder Chawla (Head of R&D) from Mahindra Swaraj was not even ready to accept the problem and did not even bother to reply to our mails.

7 – Even the radiator was observed to not heat up to an optimum level. The base of the radiator remains ice cold and the top of the radiator heats up. As the tractor never achieves optimum running temperature we are even doubtful if the thermostat opens up or not. If the optimum temperature is not achieved engine piston/rings won’t expand and in the long run the engine is bound to fail, incurring huge loss to the owner.

8 – I as an individual had to make a long visit to their R&D department and factory in Mohali to get my voice heard. But, during my visit to R&D Mr Jitender Chawla did not bother to meet even though the customer had to travel about 250 Kms and his junior Mr Sohal met with answers that were not justifiable. Due to the same we visited the factory and met Mr Pradeep Verma who organised a meeting with Mr Jitender Chawla and Mr Sohal. The grave thing is the head of R&D denied that any such problem exists in their tractors. Multiple persons from the company were then sent to look at the issue personally as the R&D head was too stubborn to even accept anything.

9 – With multiple persons visiting to have a look at the tractor the problem was accepted by the R&D department. But, the company kept the file with almost no solutions. After multiple follow-ups they would visit with no solution and every time assures us of a quick solution.

The issue is accepted by the manufacturer but, they have not even informed the quality control department to stop the production of the faulty tractor. The production and sales of faulty tractor is going on and customers are being taken for ride. Is there no recall policy for tractors that are linked to poor farmers?

On our personal effort, we along with number of Swaraj representatives even checked with other Mahindra Swaraj Tractor owners, and the same issue existed, with some being illiterate, never bothered of it. So the problem is in all the tractors and not only mine.

10 – It was in 2016, the R&D chief requested for feedback from the ground level. First time we raised the issue in 2014 and in 2016, ground level research was initiated by ground staff and feedback was sent. Still the production is on.

11 – Coolant, Thermostat, Radiator Cap, Radiator all the elements of a cooling system have been changed, the issue remains. The astonishing part is that the alternator is placed just under the coolant back up tank, what so ever one does coolant is bound to fall on Alternator while topping up. The company officials even went forward and have accepted the problem in written but it has been already two years that it has not been solved. I have been thankful to the dealership and the service technician on doing whatever they could as compare to the company who still seems to be in denial mode.

I would like all the community members to also know the recent case that was filed by the owner of a Mercedes-Benz E-Class against the manufacturer -

If a vehicle requires repeated repairs, one can infer manufacturing defect--establishes the following case

The details can be found here

Request team mates to share this and their views!

[GTO]

Sorry to hear about this obvious design flaw. What were the engineers thinking!

Originally Posted by shravan2k2

The Mahindra Swaraj 735FE tractor actually starts throwing coolant from the back up tank, which makes its way to the alternator.

Can't you use some simple jugaad to get the coolant tank relocated, or fix a plate under it (that blocks coolant dropping right below on the alternator)? These vehicles are very easy to customise. My Mahindra has pretty much got everything rearranged under the hood .

[Jaggu]

I am quite surprised that a tractor that is supposed to work in water filled farms have such a susceptible alternator?!

Coming to the cooling issue, did they try without the thermostat in place? Yes it will increase the time for the engine to reach operating temperature, but otherwise it should not have any other major consequence in the short run while you experiment. You may want to try this and see if it sorts the issue.

[Saanil]

Originally Posted by shravan2k2

I hope Mr. Anand Mahindra reads the following 11 points!



Request team mates to share this and their views!

Hi shravan2k2,

You mentioned about the coolant falling off from the tank and falling on the alternator placed below it. Any idea why the coolant is oozing out of the tank? Did you face this problem from the moment you bought the tractor or did it occur after some usage? Is this your first tractor from this brand?

You can try sending the link of this thread to Mahindra executives on Twitter. There is no harm in trying that.

[Spinnerr]

Coolants are corrosive. The marks on the alternator says it all.

Till the Mahindra engineers roll out the fix/solution, you should protect your tractor, a drip tray is must. But use plastic instead of metal.

One simple jugad would be to cut out a suitable oil can (plastic), a couple of sizes larger than the coolant tank and insert it below, under the coolant tank. From the picture that you had shared, I could make out a couple of suitable mounting points. (Actual work might not be as simple as I type , but do give it a shot).

Something like this.

[shravan2k2]

Originally Posted by GTO

Sorry to hear about this obvious design flaw. What were the engineers thinking!

It is surprising the technicians are not able to provide a solution since the last two years. But, the main point is, even if a plate is given under the tank it won't prevent other components of the engine from the coolant spill as the tank literally throws the coolant haywire inside the engine compartment. The other significant thing is the placement of the tank is different in this model and is more suitable in the higher models of the same brand.

Will see if I can show you by making a video of the same.

Originally Posted by Jaggu

I am quiet surprised that a tractor that is supposed to work in water filled farms have such a susceptible alternator?!

Coming to the cooling issue, did they try without the thermostat in place? Yes it will increase the time for the engine to reach operating temperature, but otherwise it should not have any other major consequence in the short run while you experiment. You may want to try this and see if it sorts the issue.

Will surely try this. But it is strange that the tractor is not able to achieve the optimum temperature as yet. Plus the radiator remains ice cold at the bottom. And the other strange part is the coolant issue being spilled out is only observed in winters when ambient temperature is low and the same never happens in summers. We bought the tractor in summers and issue is observed around winters

Originally Posted by Saanil

You mentioned about the coolant falling off from the tank and falling on the alternator placed below it. Any idea why the coolant is oozing out of the tank? Did you face this problem from the moment you bought the tractor or did it occur after some usage? Is this your first tractor from this brand?

We have been using tractor from the same brand for many years or I should say decades. This is a new tractor and the coolant not just falls it is thrown out of the tank.
Actually we bought this tractor in summers and the issue always crops up only in winters and not summers.

Originally Posted by Spinnerr

Coolants are corrosive. The marks on the alternator says it all.

Actually the tank literally throws the coolant so just a drip tray won't help. It might prevent the radiator but the tank is like a spitting machine and I am worried about all the other components in the engine bay.

[sagarpadaki]

Insert a drain pipe at the outlet of the coolant tank cap(I can see a projection kind of opening on the cap ) and route this drain pipe to the lower most part of the chassis so that whatever coolant is spat is routed to ground. Also ensure that the coolant tank cap is properly latched onto the tank body.

One more thing, top up coolant tank only when engine is cold. Ensure that you do not go above the F(ull) mark on the tank when you fill it with water/coolant. Most of the people fill the tank to the brim. Since the tank basically is an expansion chamber for the coolant,the coolant will flow back into the tank from the radiator cap outlet when the pressure increases in the system. If there is no space for the coolant to flow back then it will spill over from the outlet(That is the reason why the output is provided on the coolant tank cap).

Coolant can boil in the tank in case the radiator cap is faulty.If you can see the coolant boiling/bubbling in the tank, try replacing the radiator cap.

And your tractor is not consuming coolant. It is basically vomiting it out. That is why you see a drop in coolant level after running the tractor for 15-20 hours.

I think this is the max workaround that you can do since it is a design flaw. Next time buy a different brand tractor

[Zappo]

Where does the coolant gets spat from? Is it from around the cap thread? If so try fixing a rubber washer. You can use a rubber tube to make one of the appropriate diameter. If it is indeed happening from the neck of the reservoir (cap thread area) I have a suspicion that the plastic used to make the coolant tank could be of an inferior quality. In summers the plastic probably expands a bit and hence the threads are more secure while in winters the opposite happens. This gives the coolant enough space to spew out.

[Kestrel5915]

I couldn't understand the coolant consumption part.
How is the level in the radiator going down?

The spill must be coming out of that vent on top of the back up tank.
Where does the black colored hose (on top of the tank) shown in the pic lead to?
There seems to be some kind of back pressure acting through this hose on the tank.
You can ask the dealer whether there's a possibility of fitting a non return valve in that hose.

[Randhawa]

Was the water pump ever checked/inspected? Was the head ever opened or any sign of coolant in engine oil? I am more concerned as to why the coolant overflows/consumption then the location of the coolant tank. What temp stamping on the thermostat says .i.e. 87C /90?

[sagarpadaki]

Originally Posted by Kestrel5915

I couldn't understand the coolant consumption part.
How is the level in the radiator going down?

The spill must be coming out of that vent on top of the back up tank.
Where does the black colored hose (on top of the tank) shown in the pic lead to?
There seems to be some kind of back pressure acting through this hose on the tank.
You can ask the dealer whether there's a possibility of fitting a non return valve in that hose.

The other end of the black colored hose leads to top of the radiator where the radiator cap fits.

No return valve should not be installed on this hose since the coolant is also sucked back from the tank when pressure decreases in the system.

[shravan2k2]

Originally Posted by sagarpadaki

Insert a drain pipe at the outlet of the coolant tank cap(I can see a projection kind of opening on the cap ) and route this drain pipe to the lower most part of the chassis so that whatever coolant is spat is routed to ground. Also ensure that the coolant tank cap is properly latched onto the tank body.

One more thing, top up coolant tank only when engine is cold. Ensure that you do not go above the F(ull) mark on the tank when you fill it with water/coolant. Most of the people fill the tank to the brim. Since the tank basically is an expansion chamber for the coolant,the coolant will flow back into the tank from the radiator cap outlet when the pressure increases in the system. If there is no space for the coolant to flow back then it will spill over from the outlet(That is the reason why the output is provided on the coolant tank cap).

Coolant can boil in the tank in case the radiator cap is faulty.If you can see the coolant boiling/bubbling in the tank, try replacing the radiator cap.

And your tractor is not consuming coolant. It is basically vomiting it out. That is why you see a drop in coolant level after running the tractor for 15-20 hours.

I think this is the max workaround that you can do since it is a design flaw. Next time buy a different brand tractor

A drain pipe has already been used as a jugaad by company recently as a short term measure. Instead of giving a permanent solution they seem to be giving only a jugaad solution for now.

Originally Posted by Zappo

Where does the coolant gets spat from? Is it from around the cap thread? If so try fixing a rubber washer. You can use a rubber tube to make one of the appropriate diameter. If it is indeed happening from the neck of the reservoir (cap thread area) I have a suspicion that the plastic used to make the coolant tank could be of an inferior quality. In summers the plastic probably expands a bit and hence the threads are more secure while in winters the opposite happens. This gives the coolant enough space to spew out.

I am waiting for the company to come up with a solution. If I start doing stuff they probably would start denying on the fact that I am modifying stuff in the engine bay.

Originally Posted by Kestrel5915

I couldn't understand the coolant consumption part.
How is the level in the radiator going down?

The spill must be coming out of that vent on top of the back up tank.
Where does the black colored hose (on top of the tank) shown in the pic lead to?
There seems to be some kind of back pressure acting through this hose on the tank.
You can ask the dealer whether there's a possibility of fitting a non return valve in that hose.

Yes, coolant in the radiator goes down by about 1 litre after every 20 hours of running even though the backup tank used to be full. Though backup tank was spilling over not in drops but in fumes. This was more prominent in winter than in summers.

Originally Posted by Randhawa

Was the water pump ever checked/inspected? Was the head ever opened or any sign of coolant in engine oil? I am more concerned as to why the coolant overflows/consumption then the location of the coolant tank. What temp stamping on the thermostat says .i.e. 87C /90?

Water pump already changed. The head remains always open. Head was not opened as there was no sign of leakage from the cylinder. No loss of power, but engine does not achieve optimum temperature. Thermostat is three way with a mechanical fan and remains partly open always. No stamping on the thermostat at all. We also asked the same to R&D department but were not agreeing to the same. There has to be a calculation as to how much it should open and when it should open. But those stubborn R&D department are just not agreeing

[Kestrel5915]

Originally Posted by sagarpadaki

The other end of the black colored hose leads to top of the radiator where the radiator cap fits.

No return valve should not be installed on this hose since the coolant is also sucked back from the tank when pressure decreases in the system.

Ok but there ought to be some sort of pressure releasing mechanism in the cooling system otherwise how will the pressure caused by the expansion and some evaporation of the coolant be compensated for.

Usually it's in the form of a spring loaded valve in the radiator cap.
I think this tank is itself a surge tank or a degas tank.

[sagarpadaki]

Originally Posted by Kestrel5915

Ok but there ought to be some sort of pressure releasing mechanism in the cooling system otherwise how will the pressure caused by the expansion and some evaporation of the coolant be compensated for.

Usually it's in the form of a spring loaded valve in the radiator cap.
I think this tank is itself a surge tank or a degas tank.

Yes, this tank acts as release for liquid and gasses. Gasses escape through the hole/outlet in the cap of the tank

[SS-Traveller]

An interesting conundrum, this.

The location of the coolant expansion tank over the alternator is not an unusual design, since the expansion tank is not expected to overflow on any regular basis.

However, loss of coolant due to overflow from the expansion chamber, associated with uneven temperature distribution in the radiator as well as the problem occurring in winter...

Originally Posted by shravan2k2

...the tank literally throws the coolant haywire inside the engine compartment. ...
Plus the radiator remains ice cold at the bottom. And the other strange part is the coolant issue being spilled out is only observed in winters when ambient temperature is low and the same never happens in summers.

... points to either a design or component flaw in the coolant system closed loop, that M&M is unable to pinpoint.

2 questions:
1) Is this a common rail diesel, or Di/IDI?
2) If the engine is revved while the radiator cap is open (in a cold engine), do you see the coolant surging/boiling heavily inside?

I would not like to suggest any solutions at present, especially since many things have been tried already, but am subscribed to the thread to learn if any fix comes about in the future.