Team-BHP - Combat Aircraft of the Indian Air Force

Quote:

Originally Posted by V.Narayan (Post 4920731)

Even with that a strike range of 1250+ kms is feasible with Su-30 + missile range. Given China's belligerence it is reassuring that this time we are not trying to placate them.

Rookie question, given that the 1250+ km range includes the Su-30 + missile range, doesn't it put the Sukhoi right in the line of fire of Chinese SAMs given that they have really perfected their anti-access/area-denial (A2/AD) strategy against the Americans? So, taking this into consideration, doesn't the usage range reduce even further?

This is offcourse assuming that the Brahmos themselves aren't intercepted. Infact, during the 2018 US, UK and French strikes on Syria, the Russians claimed that the Syrian air defences intercepted 71 of the 103 cruise missiles fired (if you believe the Russians) but offcourse the Tomahawks and SCALPs are much slower and easier to intercept than the Brahmos. But I do think that the Brahmos requires an increase in range to 600+ km to become a lethal weapon against the Chinese A2/AD strategy and I believe DRDO is already working on it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by V.Narayan (Post 4920731)

A good demonstration of capability. When dealing with your adversaries watch for capability rather than just intent as intent can change rapidly, capability takes time. Having needed to fly hi-hi-hi and with inflight refueling this really demonstrates ability to hit sea targets in the Indian ocean region, littoral targets in the IOR {terrorist havens} more than anything else. If we had to carry a Brahmos or a Scalp over land into China or Pakistan it would have to be lo-lo-lo. Even with that a strike range of 1250+ kms is feasible with Su-30 + missile range. Given China's belligerence it is reassuring that this time we are not trying to placate them.

Imagine a squadron or two of Su's armed with Brahmos in the A&N theater - we effectively get sea-denial capability for almost all of the South China Sea with just one top-up refuelling in Air. It takes most of the surface fleet out of the equation. Flying into Pak - the Su- can cover almost all the key targets from their home bases easily even flying Hi-Lo-Hi Or Hi-Lo-Lo. Su's based in Pune can protect Mumbai Airspace / Sea Lanes easily. For Pak - Lo-Lo-Lo is taken care of by the vaunted Jaguars - Which after the DARIN upgrade are even more potent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmartCat (Post 4920770)

Lo-lo-lo mission over Tibet will still be at 16,000 to 20,000 ft because Tibet is the roof of the world with an average elevation of 4,800 metres ;).

Yeah, Rafale + scalp is more suitable for deep penetration land attack mission:

- Designed for terrain hugging flying (unlike Su30MKI which is still primarily an air superiority fighter)
- Apparently can detect (thanks to SPECTRA suite) SAM sites and fly around them if needed.
- Can carry 3 external fuel tanks
- Lo-lo-lo combat radius of 1,500 km (not 100% sure about this number) with external fuel tanks.

This implies that major cities like Chengdu (which has a large military industrial complex) is within strike range.

Good observation. Also, don't discount the Mig27's yet esp. in the China theater. The Migs have good endurance, they practice flying in the hills (Lo-Hi-Lo)

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragracer567 (Post 4920847)

Rookie question, given that the 1250+ km range includes the Su-30 + missile range, doesn't it put the Sukhoi right in the line of fire of Chinese SAMs given that they have really perfected their anti-access/area-denial (A2/AD) strategy against the Americans? So, taking this into consideration, doesn't the usage range reduce even further?

This is offcourse assuming that the Brahmos themselves aren't intercepted. Infact, during the 2018 US, UK and French strikes on Syria, the Russians claimed that the Syrian air defenses intercepted 71 of the 103 cruise missiles fired (if you believe the Russians) but offcourse the Tomahawks and SCALPs are much slower and easier to intercept than the Brahmos. But I do think that the Brahmos requires an increase in range to 600+ km to become a lethal weapon against the Chinese A2/AD strategy and I believe DRDO is already working on it.

The beauty of the Brahmos equipped Su is that it gives standoff capability that is in the true sense unparalleled. The only real defence against a screaming Mach 3-4 missile which hugs terrain is a CIWS system - which wont be available in densely populated areas. The SU just has to carry it within 300-400 kms of the target. There is literally no defence against the aircraft launching at this range.

The Brahmos is more of a 'scalpel' - used for high value targets (SAM Sites, Nodes, etc). This will be followed up by a volley of other weapons.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PGA (Post 4930901)

https://youtu.be/KDmDi_QN3kE

A good compilation, for the uninitiated a peek into things to come ahead and for the veterans many inferences and extrapolations.

An eye opener. Thank you for sharing, sir:thumbs up.

You have to wonder why Armenia refused to commit its air force and did not use their new Su-30SMs against these drones. Armenia was also overwhelmed by the sheer number of "soldiers" against them (which included Syrian mercenaries sent by the "Mad Turk" on his swanky Airbus A400Ms). There are difficult to watch vidoes of captured/surrendered Armenian soldiers being executed by these mercenaries, something that amounts to war crimes.

I do hope our armed forces invest in anti-drone systems. It is only a matter of time before the Pakis get their hands on armed drones (or might have already have) and we have already seen what kind of devastating impact it can have on a larger army - how quickly it can overwhelm much larger and technologically more advanced air defence systems.

There is also this myth in Indian circles that the Chinese will not fight "dirty" and use their soldiers face to face against the Indian Army...that the "short" & "sissy" Chinese soldiers are no match for better trained and acclimatized Indian soldiers. While it may be true, it is also a fact that that the Chinese have even more advanced UCAVs and loitering drones that they will not hesitate to use on our soldiers in case the balloon goes up. It is not 1962 or 1967 where you will have combat at close quarters!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by PGA (Post 4930901)

A good compilation, for the uninitiated a peek into things to come ahead and for the veterans many inferences and extrapolations.

OSINT guys on Twitter say India used drones extensively during the recent exchange of artillery shells & missiles on LOC. Drones were apparently used to locate Pakistani bunkers and act as a "Spotter/Observer" for artillery strikes. That probably explains how Indian Army managed to get multiple clear (not shaky) video footage of ATGM strikes on Pakistani bunkers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by skanchan95 (Post 4931458)

I do hope our armed forces invest in anti-drone systems.

DRDO has an anti-drone system that has already been deployed may times - during Trump visit and during Independence Day/Republic Day festivities. This system does not use bullets or missiles - it is called a "directed energy weapon"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directed-energy_weapon

Combat Aircraft of the Indian Air Force-screenshot_1.jpg

Was going to say, the Su-47 was basically an air unicorn and the Mig-44 is the mythical Soviet leap in air combat or whatever narrative someone wants to fit to talk about it.

I wonder how in the ball park the other numbers are though. I doubt you'd ever really find the true to life numbers in the wild, even if they did get out there, they'd be scrubbed quickly enough or it'll have other numbers in there to throw you off. Who knows, maybe that's why the Su-47 and Mig-44 are included.

Couple of interesting trends for me. It's clear canards aren't ideal for RCS. I mean it's always been known. Would be interesting if the lack of canards on the Su-35 Really did bring the RCS down That much compared to the Su-30.

It's still frankly amazing what the folks at Skunk Works, armed with slide rules and good old drawing boards managed with the F-117 Nighthawks. None of the new fangled compute power to work out sculpted surfaces with constant radius etc to diffuse radar signals. Says a lot that the F-117s are now being used a great deal once more at test ranges in the US, with folks debating whether its as LO adversary support for airborne platforms or ground based systems to practice against.

Quote:

Originally Posted by skanchan95 (Post 4931458)

I do hope our armed forces invest in anti-drone systems.

Looks like some interesting acquisitions are underway. This is an electro-optical sight that is attached to a soldier's assault rifle.

Navy orders Israeli SMASH 2000 Plus systems to tackle drones, more contracts in offing
https://theprint.in/defence/navy-ord...offing/562955/

Quote:

The contract calls for the supply of Smart Shooter’s SMASH 2000 Plus fire control systems, which will be installed mainly on AK-47 and AK 203 rifles. SMASH is a kind of electro-optic sight system.

“SMASH 2000 Plus provides an inimitable hard-kill solution against the growing threats of drones, and delivers proven ability to hit any ground or airborne targets and eliminate the threat quickly and effectively,” Michal Mor, the company’s CEO said in the statement. Smart Shooter claims the SMASH 2000 Plus features built-in targeting algorithms that can track and hit very small drones skimming along at high speed, at ranges of up to 120 metres, with the first shot.

Sources in the defence and security establishment told ThePrint that while this is an initial order, the Army along with the Border Security Force are already in talks with Israeli firm Smart Shooter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91sf7B6WpbI

HAL apparently proposed the LCA for USN trainer jet programme (!?!?)

So a few days ago, an Indian aviation enthusiasts page I follow on Instagram started posting CGI mock ups of the LCA in USN colours. I was bemused but carried on about my day, thinking it must be an amusing side project of the artist. You can imagine my surprise when I stumble across a news clipping from a fairly reputable website posting that it is in fact based on a very real proposition!

https://www.scramble.nl/military-news/lca-for-us-navy

Excerpts:

Quote:

The US Navy has started earlier this year a global search for the replacement of its Boeing T-45C Goshawk fleet in use with the Naval Air Traning Command.
...
By surprise, India has sent a detailed project plan to the US Naval Air Systems Command, offering the Lead-in Fighter Trainer (LIFT) variant of its Light Combat Aircraft (LCA).

I mean I can only admire HAL's gumption! I can imagine the looks in the Pentagon when they opened the detailed proposal HAL sent. Shock and amusement aside, I don't think I mind this proposal if it was sent tongue in cheek but knowing HAL I can imagine them sending it po-faced, convinced about their odds of being taken seriously. In which case it would be typically misplaced confidence from HAL. While I'm sure we all had a chuckle, hopefully they're hard at work getting their offerings for our Navy in working order before sending moonshot proposals for foreign tenders, especially to the Pentagon of all places!