![]() |
Originally Posted by locusjag
(Post 4555259)
I fear to share anything about the ongoing war and info war with Pakistan these days. My previous update here on tracking the F-16 which supposedly crashed was fake. ... |
Originally Posted by locusjag
(Post 4555019)
Ran across this old video of our Mirage 2000s hitting Pakistani positions with laser guided munitions: Skip to the 3 minute mark for actual cockpit footage of the bombing. Skip to 3:48 to see the Pakistanis scurrying for cover before they were toast. |
Originally Posted by AlphaKilo
(Post 4555355)
Mate, no amount of shouting and jingoism is going to make our Services/GoI come out and show proof. Our adversaries have this habit of playing pschy Ops. Also, showing such proof might give away some of our operational capabilities which I am sure we don't wan. |
Originally Posted by Nomad_Wind
(Post 4555375)
What an eye opening find! War is a bloody affair. Those aren't pixels in a video game, they're actual people. |
Originally Posted by locusjag
(Post 4555404)
You're right. In some cases, to provide proof is to play the adversary's game. |
Originally Posted by locusjag
(Post 4555404)
In any case, I noticed your signature line (again) and I guess I need to go into a zen-like mental state in which not every stimulus requires a motor reaction. Indeed, if truth requires evidence, does it not mean that it's a sorry state of affairs? |
Originally Posted by AlphaKilo
(Post 4555515)
https://myind.net/Home/viewArticle/t...on-february-26 https://www.indiatoday.in/programme/...749-2019-03-06 |
Sarcasm or you mean it seriously? |
Originally Posted by AlphaKilo
(Post 4555355)
Mate, no amount of shouting and jingoism is going to make our Services/GoI come out and show proof. Our adversaries have this habit of playing pschy Ops. The proof has/was already shown to people of importance and these are information reserved for selected eyes only. I for one, trust the capabilities of our forces fully. Also, showing such proof might give away some of our operational capabilities which I am sure we don't wan. |
Originally Posted by pratyush6
(Post 4555676)
A couple of pointers: ... Other than above: Why are politicians and media houses belittling the current warplanes we have? Yes, these are old and no match for the Rafales we are procuring but, a MiG 21 Bison, from what I am made to understand can hold its own against an F16. Could someone explain this to me? Separate the wheat from the chaff please. |
Originally Posted by V.Narayan
(Post 4555760)
If our politicians wish to play dirty with this commendable military action we can't stop them. Question for some of our politicians and social media pundits- did you ask USA for proof of OBL being knocked off? |
Originally Posted by V.Narayan
(Post 4555760)
Gentlemen, a gentle request from an old bird. If our politicians wish to play dirty with this commendable military action we can't stop them. But let us, the members of this august forum, not get into this 'show me proof' sort of argument. The IAF is hardly likely to share what high resolution photos it has or what intelligence reports it had of activities at B. Nor is the IAF given, seeing it's 85 year track, to claiming hits that were not achieved. The IAF would not have told the PMO 'mission accomplished' till it, the IAF, was sure itself. That is simply the way it operates as it has no popularity contest to win. Question for some of our politicians and social media pundits- did you ask USA for proof of OBL being knocked off? |
Originally Posted by pratyush6
(Post 4555676)
Why are politicians and media houses belittling the current warplanes we have? Yes, these are old and no match for the Rafales we are procuring but, a MiG 21 Bison, from what I am made to understand can hold its own against an F16. Could someone explain this to me? Separate the wheat from the chaff please. |
‘Visual. And Locked’: Abhinandan’s Last Radio Call Before He Fired F-16 ‘Kill Shot’ Visual. And locked. That was the final radio call from IAF pilot Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman’s MiG-21 Bison before he pushed a button on his stick, letting loose the only weapon fired by the eight Indian jets in the air at the time. The weapon he fired, a Vympel R-73, was seen hitting the jet he was pursuing across the Line of Control. His own radar warning receiver was blaring by this time, and while he said to have attempted countermeasures to ‘go cold’, his aircraft was struck by what is believed to be an AIM-20 AMRAAM missile, bringing him and his jet down across the Line of Control in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir. The word ‘visual’ is, interestingly, US Air Force pilot-speak for ‘friendly aircraft in sight’, as opposed to ‘tally’, which denotes an enemy aircraft in visual range. Livefist has had a chance to review select debrief data and speak with IAF officers familiar with the unprecedented aerial face-off on the morning of February 27. On the morning of February 27 — a day after Indian air strikes in Balakot, Pakistan — the Indian Air Force had two standing combat air patrols in the Jammu & Kashmir area — a pair of upgraded Mirage 2000s and two Su-30 MKIs, along with a Netra airborne early warning and control jet and a Phalcon AWACS keeping watch. The initial ‘pick-up’ of the approaching Pakistan Air Force fighter package was by ground radars. The inbound force was a large one, comprising at least 24 PAF jets in separate loose formations. Among the jets were at least three Dassault Mirage III aircraft armed with strike weapons. When the formation crossed from Pakistan in airspace over PoK, the Indian Air Force scrambled six MiG-21 Bison interceptors — three from Srinagar and three from Avantipora. The Pakistani jets were inbound from a west-south westerly direction. A very loose mixed formation of Mirage IIIs deployed H-4 stand-off precision guided glide bombs with penetrator warheads at Indian military installations in the Rajouri sector with some of them hitting military land, but not causing any damage to structures or establishment buildings. Livefist has had a chance to review photographs of the weapon remnants recovered on the Indian side, including the starboard fin section of an H-4 bomb bearing the serial number ‘P695’. The photographs, apparently refuting Pakistani claims that their strikes were deliberately mis-aimed only to send India a counter-message after the Balakot strikes, are part of an Indian Air Force dossier of the day’s proceedings that will be submitted to the government this week. The IAF’s official conclusion in this dossier is that the H-4 bombs were deployed specifically to cause damage. As the stand-off strikes took place, an air-to-air battle commenced with the two Indian Su-30s reporting (in their debrief) repeated radar locks from the Pakistani F-16s beyond visual range, and manoeuvering in the air to turn ‘cold’ on the weapon locks. IAF sources indicated to Livefist that the F-16s were looking specifically to shoot down a Su-30 — something that would have been a major loss for the IAF. The Su-30s (and later, three of the MiG-21s) are said to have flown patterns to remain ‘kinematically safe’ against the repeated AMRAAM locks even as the distance between the Indian and Pakistani jets loosely closed over the Line of Control. The hot-cold radar lock sequence continued for several minutes, with the PAF F-16s repeatedly attempting to sustain locks on the Su-30 MKIs long enough for meaningful shots. Sources say the three AMRAAMs were launched in DMAX-1, the dynamic attack zone where the missile is unleashed at the limits of its range. On all three occasions, the Su-30s used countermeasures to dodge the incoming weapons. While the other jets, including the Mirage 2000s also recorded locks on them from the F-16s, Wing Commander Abhinandan’s MiG-21 out front was also ‘hot’ on an AMRAAM. However, he was now fully within visual range of an F-16 that was turning away to speed back towards Pakistan-occupied Kashmir. Livefist has been given to understand that Wing Commander responded to two warnings from radar controllers to turn back (since he was minutes from crossing into hostile airspace) with radar calls saying he had an aircraft in visual range and was attempting a manual lock. Moments later, with his lock confirmed, he gave a final call saying he had the lock tone, before launching a single R-73 close combat missile. The pilot would later record in a debriefing that he saw his missile hit the retreating F-16 in the port rear section and that it was brought down. Moments later, as Wing Commander Abhinandan initiated evasive maneouvers to defeat the incoming AMRAAM, the missile struck his MiG-21, forcing the pilot to punch out. The R-73 fired by Wing Commander Abhinandan was the only Indian weapon launched during the aerial engagement, leading the Indian Air Force to officially attribute the F-16 kill to him. None of the other jets launched weapons, likely because of a lack of target solutions. It is also likely that rules of engagement had been modified, though the IAF has refused to confirm or deny. |
IAF A-50 AEW&C Aircraft’s Israeli Radar could have recorded last week clash between Pakistan F-16’s and Indian Fighters Indian Air Force (IAF) Beriev A-50 airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) aircraft featuring Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) and Elta Electronics Industries of Israel EL/W-2090 radar system could play a key role not only in establishing if Pakistan Air Force(PAK) used U.S. built F-16 fighter jets in Feb. 27 air engagements with Indian Air Force (IAF) over the Line of Control (LoC) but also if PAF lost one F-16B fighter jet to Indian Air Force’s Mig-21 Bison. According to idrw.org, “a lone A-50 PHALCON AWACS flying well within Indian territory near state of Jammu and Kashmir was first to detect close to 24 PAF jets coming towards LOC. 3 F-16s before the LOC breach happened they were warned by IAF which they chose to ignore and invading aircraft entered nearly 3kms inside the Indian side of LOC and tried to target key Indian military installations but due to early detection close to six more IAF jets were scrambled and were already in the air. “The whole sequence of events from their takeoffs from their forward base till the time they flew back to their base was recorded by the powerful Israeli Radar in the sky. F-16 going down and Mig-21 which was also later shot down was also recorded by the Airborne system which will be playing a key role in establishing facts of the whole sequence of events which took place that day. “Indian officials have already submitted this key Electronic Radar Recordings of the F-16 breaching LOC and one being shot down with American interlocutors who will be sharing the same with US Administration. Pentagon is likely to study the evidence provided by the Indian side with Israeli help to establish facts and come to a conclusion. What will the US Administration do with the evidence is not clearly known yet but it is likely will create pressure on Pakistani military establishment to come clean or facesanctions.” As we have already explained Pakistan and India both carried out aerial bombing missions last week, including a clash on Feb. 27, that saw an Indian pilot shot down over the disputed region of Kashmir in an incident that alarmed global powers and sparked fears of a war. A Pakistan military spokesman told reporters on Feb. 27 that Pakistani jets “locked” on Indian targets to demonstrate Pakistan’s capacity to strike back at India, but then chose to fire in an empty field where there would be no casualties. Pakistan said its mission on Feb. 27 was in retaliation for India violating its airspace and sovereignty a day earlier, when Indian Mirage 2000 fighter jets bombed a forest area near the northern city of Balakot. India said it struck at militant training camps, but Islamabad denied any such camps existed, as did some villagers in the area. The fresh anti-militancy drive was launched after a Kashmiri suicide bomber, a member of Pakistan-based Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM) terrorist group, killed 40 Indian paramilitary police on Feb. 14. The U.S. Embassy in Islamabad said on Mar. 3 that it is investigating if Pakistan had used the F-16 fighter to shoot down an Indian MiG-21, potentially violating Washington’s military sale agreements that limit how Pakistan can use the planes, as the stand-off between the nuclear-armed Asian neighbors appeared to be easing. While Pakistan has denied using F-16 jets during a dogfight that downed an Indian Mig-21 warplane over Kashmir on Feb. 27, it has not specified which planes it used, though it assembles Chinese-designed JF-17 fighter jets on its soil. The last chapter (for now) of the saga has been written on Mar. 4 when a Pakistani drone was reportedly shot down by an IAF Sukhoi Su-30MKI fighter jet after being detected inside Indian Airspace, in Rajasthan’s Bikaner sector. |
Originally Posted by V.Narayan
(Post 4555760)
But let us, the members of this august forum, not get into this 'show me proof' sort of argument. |
Originally Posted by skanchan95
(Post 4555890)
As the saying goes Patriotism is the LAST resort of the scoundrel |
Originally Posted by locusjag
(Post 4555906)
Sir, I don't think any of us were in an argument here to disprove it |
All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 07:59. |