[dragracer567]

Let's not forget about the AMCA 1:1 mock-up. Expected to enter service by 2036 if all goes well - a tall order. Wouldn't beat HAL up too much for this when the Russians are already marketing the Su-75 which is in the same state of development.







TWZ has covered the face-off between the F35 and Su-57 but eventually, they seem to conclude that India might not show interest in either which seems to be the consensus everywhere.

[dragracer567]

Trump to eventually ‘provide F35s’ to India

This has been the buzz since Trump came into power but, as part of a long list of defense acquisitions that India is working on including the Strykers (which India doesn’t need) and more P8is (which India does need). Trump has stated that as part of these military sales, he wants to eventually provide India with F35s. To clarify, as per Indian officials, the purchase process hasn’t started yet and ‘is still a proposal’ but Lockheed says they are encouraged by the announcement. I might not even be surprised if Indian officials were caught off guard by this proposal. As per the official statement, the US will remove roadblocks for the transfer of fifth generation fighters and undersea systems used onboard American nuclear attack submarines (SSNs) - possibly for India’s own upcoming SSN.

In hindsight, the cost of the F35s would be probably lower than the tariffs our industry would’ve to pay if we don’t but the bigger danger is whether what happens when the administration changes as witnessed with the UAE. However, there was actually a statement during one of PM Modi’s visits to the US during the Biden administration on fifth generation fighters, so this might not be so new.

One possibility in my mind is to get the Navy to buy the F35 since the Navy has recently stated that they need fifth generation fighters which brings into question the need for the TEDBF. This will also ensure sufficient AMCAs are procured and not undercut by the F35 order, which is again unless the F35s are purchased in lieu of the MRFA for the Air Force.

Images below of India’s CDS being given a preview of the F35.

[dragracer567]

Some more details on the potential F35 deal from the Economic Times:

1) This is likely to the stop-gap arrangement with aircraft purchased for 2 squadrons - similar to the earlier Rafale deal.

2) There might be a stringent end-user monitoring protocol ostensibly to ensure that personnel from other nationalities such as Russia don't have access to the aircraft. This might be the sticking point that can break this deal and I actually do think that if this deal is ever called off, this would be the reason.

3) Unknown how the S400 factor comes into play.

[dragracer567]

With the whole fiasco with the current US administration and questions over their commitment towards NATO and their apparent expansionist tendencies into their NATO allies themselves, there is an emerging debate in Europe if there is a kill switch in the F35s supplied to European countries. According to this TWZ article, Lockheed Martin claims there is no such switch, however, given the technology heavy nature of the F35, the Americans can easily render European F35s obselete or at the very least degrade its stealth and networking characteristics which are its main advantages. Points to ponder as India considers the platform.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQAfwk3Otno

[ads11]

Timely discussion. One that's had me mulling over a few things in the past few weeks. I'll preface by saying anyone who buys into the idea of a kill switch is a tourist as far as defence discourse goes. We all know the way to kill an item is simply by pulling maintenance and logistics support.

There's two broad points that stand out to me about this current quandary:
1. Hoo boy was old man De Gaulle proven right. To a lesser degree Macron is getting to do his "told you so" tour now.
2. The Israelis negotiating source code access to their own F35I's was such a coup, credit to whether combination of AIPAC and Israeli officials pulled this off.

On point 2, I wouldn't put it past the Israelis though to listen to the highest bidder to in colloquial terms jail break their F35s. Israel has form on the matter. You'll often see the knowing wink folks do when speaking of the IAI Lavi being reborn in PLAAF colours. I think if push came to shove, and if there was a sufficient sweetener for Israel, they'd tango. They're the only country that can get away with rubbing it's nose at US largesse in a manner contrary to American national interests.

Coming back to point 1, it feels like the ruthless efficiency with which Trump 2.0 is going about enacting not just Project 2025 but his own worldview and transactional approach to world affairs is a Rubicon moment. They captured the courts in the first term and the way in which they're gutting and remoulding US institutions with political appointees of very ideological bent feels like it'll be very very hard to roll back. I think it's fair to say that I've usually had a less caustic view of the Americans generally, having grown up in Pax Americana, but even I'll concede that this time it really feels different. If they're willing to undo decades of policy or protocol with their closest transatlantic or immediate neighbours, what hope is there for good faith dealing with those who have traditionally been at arms length. I think if anything this should be a wake up call to re-evaluate the degree to which we cosy up to the US. That's not to say a retrenchment back to pro Russian ties. I think a wariness is well warranted towards them given their obvious and blatant transgressions in recent years. Long story short I think what all of this is hinting at to me is the importance of perhaps revisiting Non Alignment. If Gaullism is looking to be back in vogue again and Europe truly does pivot to be less reliant on US support in strategic affairs.
None of this is altogether surprising. We've been steadily heading towards a multipolar world order anyway.

[dragracer567]

Originally Posted by ads11

On point 2, I wouldn't put it past the Israelis though to listen to the highest bidder to in colloquial terms jail break their F35s. Israel has form on the matter. You'll often see the knowing wink folks do when speaking of the IAI Lavi being reborn in PLAAF colours. I think if push came to shove, and if there was a sufficient sweetener for Israel, they'd tango. They're the only country that can get away with rubbing it's nose at US largesse in a manner contrary to American national interests.

Coming back to point 1, it feels like the ruthless efficiency with which Trump 2.0 is going about enacting not just Project 2025 but his own worldview and transactional approach to world affairs is a Rubicon moment. They captured the courts in the first term and the way in which they're gutting and remoulding US institutions with political appointees of very ideological bent feels like it'll be very very hard to roll back. I think it's fair to say that I've usually had a less caustic view of the Americans generally, having grown up in Pax Americana, but even I'll concede that this time it really feels different. If they're willing to undo decades of policy or protocol with their closest transatlantic or immediate neighbours, what hope is there for good faith dealing with those who have traditionally been at arms length. I think if anything this should be a wake up call to re-evaluate the degree to which we cosy up to the US. That's not to say a retrenchment back to pro Russian ties. I think a wariness is well warranted towards them given their obvious and blatant transgressions in recent years. Long story short I think what all of this is hinting at to me is the importance of perhaps revisiting Non Alignment. If Gaullism is looking to be back in vogue again and Europe truly does pivot to be less reliant on US support in strategic affairs.
None of this is altogether surprising. We've been steadily heading towards a multipolar world order anyway.

Regarding point 2, do the Israelis have that capability? I was of the impression that the version provided to them was 'open source' (for the lack of a better term) to begin with. Anyway, on the hardware side, this will affect the Americans as well since the supply chain is spread out across their allies like the Europeans, Canadians and Japanese, so it's questionable how quickly the Americans can replace these suppliers if there is a fallout. There is precedence with the Turks who also contributed some components but one would assume that the components made by the other allies are a lot more difficult to replace.

Regarding point 1, I was hoping to avoid a discussion on this (it infuriates me for one) but here goes. I'd say this is a once in a generation opportunity for the Europeans to to pick up the baton of leading the free world. As Donald Tusk quipped recently - “It’s striking but it’s true. Right now, 500 million Europeans are begging 300 million Americans for protection from 140 million Russians who have been unable to overcome 50 million Ukrainians for three years.". And this is when the European Union has surpassed China again to become the second largest economy in the world - this is without Britain mind you.

But getting the Europeans to actually work together towards such a goal is easier said than done. Scepticism against France runs deep, especially in Eastern Europe and while the Germans are palatable for some, they are highly unpopular in Southern Europe. Also while the French do claim that their nuclear umbrella might cover their neighbours, there is no implicit guarantee while the Brits are only left with Submarine forces dependent on American tech.

Things are perhaps even more dire in the Indo-Pacific where despite not as much animosity from the current administration, no country or groups of countries come anywhere close to challenging China's dominance without the US with no equivalent to an overarching European Union. India is probably at least a generation away from reaching that capability, that too with support from allies like Japan and Australia.

[dragracer567]

First look of the new Boeing F-47 - the 6th generation replacement of the F22 Raptor. This is basically the outcome of the NGAD (Next Generation Air Dominance) contract which has been won by Boeing that has edged out Lockheed Martin to win the contract.

Trump has said that downgraded versions may be sold to certain allies.

[vik99]

This unveiling was more of less a forgone conclusion given the recent spate of leaked images of alleged 6th gen aircraft from our eastern neighbour.

Pretty soon we will see news outlets from respective sides declaring their 6th gen aircraft to be the best.

Interesting times!

[FlankerFury]

Originally Posted by dragracer567

First look of the new Boeing F-47 - the 6th generation replacement of the F22 Raptor. This is basically the outcome of the NGAD (Next Generation Air Dominance) contract...

It's still a render though, no one has any idea on how this thing actually looks like.

Also, it must be that duck like nose, along with canards, because that render reminds me of the Su-34 :P


The wing structure is interesting, now that reminds me of the Bird of Prey


I remember reading about how Israel wanted the F-22 but Congress never approved exports for the Raptor

Trump has said that downgraded versions may be sold to certain allies.

Does this mean Saudi Arabia can finally get F-35's? The US will sell F-47's to Israel so the latter retains their qualitative edge in the region.

Originally Posted by FlankerFury

Whatever be the case, this sighting will revitalize the American NGAD project for sure.

The full unveil of this F-47 would be interesting. Chances are it's not just a plane, it's going to be an entire ecosystem of loyal wingmen, loitering munitions, recon drones and stuff alongside the manned aircraft.

Also, the 47 designation has been used before for an American combat aircraft.

P-47 Thunderbolt

Comment section on various forums are suggesting that the designation has more to do with Trump's presidency though. He is the 47th President of USA.
____

Speaking of 6th gen,
New images of the Chinese Dorito have surfaced

Originally Posted by FlankerFury

Super grainy image, but it shows three engines.

on full burners


No chase plane this time.

TheWarZone | 2nd recorded flight for China's J-36

[FlankerFury]

Originally Posted by FlankerFury

New images of the Chinese Dorito have surfaced

There's video footage of this now.

Video:- Reddit | WarplanePorn | Shenyang J-36 test flight


Image Source

From a different perspective,
Video:-Reddit | WarplanePorn | Shenyang J-36 test flght

[FlankerFury]

General Electric F404-IN20 deliveries resume

Twitter | NewsIADN | Tejas Mk1A prototype

On Tuesday (March 25), we were excited to deliver the first of 99 F404-IN20 engines to our valued customer Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) for the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft Mk 1A fight jet. It is an important milestone in our 40-year relationship with HAL and in our efforts to ensure a strong future for India’s military by developing next-generation fighters while enhancing the country’s defense manufacturing capabilities.

The F404-IN20 engine is a tailored design for India’s single-engine fighter with the highest thrust within F404 family and a higher-flow fan, unique single-crystal turbine blades, and numerous special components. GE Aerospace and Tejas teams collaborated closely for several years to customize it for the needs of Indian Air Force.

By 2016, GE Aerospace fulfilled its commitment to HAL and delivered 65 F404-IN20 engines for the Tejas LCA. With no additional engine orders on the horizon, the production line for F404-IN20 was shut down. However, when HAL ordered an additional 99 engines in 2021 for the Tejas Mk1A LCA, our team began the complex task of restarting the F404-IN20 production line, which had been dormant for five years, and re-engaging the engine’s global supply chain.

GE Aerospace | F404-IN20 deliveries resume

[ads11]

Couple of thoughts in no particular order

Originally Posted by dragracer567

Boeing that has edged out Lockheed Martin to win the contract.

My immediate thought was that this is a bone from the MIC to prop up Boeing given they'd have pretty much exited the fast jet space if they hadn't won this contract. As many have pointed out, to my mind a lot of the lines that Boeing does have ticking over currently are all programmes they inherited during the McDonnell Douglas reverse takeover. Lockheed have enough on their F35 order book for a while yet. Northrop have the B21 to fulfil. Boeing was looking a bit bereft.

Originally Posted by FlankerFury

It's still a render though, no one has any idea on how this thing actually looks like.

Also, it must be that duck like nose, along with canards, because that render reminds me of the Su-34

There's likely tons of obfuscation going on with the released imagery but that being said, there sure is a strong resemblance in the nose to the Hell Duck. I wonder how those commentators who always scoffed at canards are going to cope if their shiny new toy ends up adopting them too.

I remember reading about how Israel wanted the F-22 but Congress never approved exports for the Raptor

I thought it was the Japanese who threw everything and the kitchen sink at the US to get hold of the Raptor only to be repeatedly stonewalled by Congress. And I think that was a bipartisan refusal too. Though it wouldn't surprise me if the Israeli's also had a backchannel campaign for the F22 via their network of PACs.

Does this mean Saudi Arabia can finally get F-35's? The US will sell F-47's to Israel so the latter retains their qualitative edge in the region.

Good point. Think bigger question is how much of a leap the watered down export F47 is to the F35. Think that'll predetermine how willing the US will be to prize the door open towards not just the Saudis but Emiratis getting the F35. I will say that the open hostility of this administration towards Europe (need only see the infamous Signal chats for recent proof) has a lot of those F35 customers in jilted former partners of the US ruing their choice of the F35. I wonder to what extent those ME monarchies also consider how fickle this administration can be and whether they're likely to turn. Although it's clear that in their case they can pander to Trump's love of largesse and keep him onside so they probably reckon they don't have much to worry about, seeing as this administration doesn't much care for pesky human rights or high fallutin values.

Comment section on various forums are suggesting that the designation has more to do with Trump's presidency though. He is the 47th President of USA.

Given how easily pandered to Trump is, wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if either the OEM or the planning body decided to give their programme a little boost with the numerals they chose. That man has the attention span of a golden retriever.

Speaking of 6th gen,
New images of the Chinese Dorito have surfaced

I still find this such a curious platform. That three engine layout reminds me of the TurboKat famously featured on Swat Kats (iykyk). Also the combination of side mounted intakes and then a dorsal one too makes for such a curious profile. It doesn't seem like they're prioritising manoeuvrability, surely that dorsal intake (which seems to be the primary intake) would lose a lot of airflow at high angles of attack? Also what degree of internal contortions will they have to adopt for the intake ducts to ensure the fan blades aren't visible?

Judging by the chunky rear landing gear, it's a portly jet, so clearly no lightweight fighter - so what exactly is it's role? It's clearly not the much touted strategic bomber (H20), but it doesn't strike me as the other proposal for a medium weight tactical bomber that was mused about either. Or is this it then?

If it is indeed meant to be a fighter, perhaps then it's size betrays a considerable payload and/or fuel capacity meaning, like the J20, it's likely prioritising range in order to get further out beyond the First Island Chain for interdiction missions against US task groups. I guess more will become clearer as the Chinese drip feed more imagery and videos down the developmental pipeline of the J36.

Originally Posted by FlankerFury

General Electric F404-IN20 deliveries resume

By 2016, GE Aerospace fulfilled its commitment to HAL and delivered 65 F404-IN20 engines for the Tejas LCA. With no additional engine orders on the horizon, the production line for F404-IN20 was shut down. However, when HAL ordered an additional 99 engines in 2021 for the Tejas Mk1A LCA, our team began the complex task of restarting the F404-IN20 production line, which had been dormant for five years, and re-engaging the engine’s global supply chain.

I think this quote is telling. Whilst sure there seemed to be a delay of a year for dubious reasons, the Indian contingent is not without fault, and it's a familiar fault to any Indian defence observers. Our legendary prevarication. Our defence mandarins capacity to only think in the here and now frequently results in incidents such as this. If they'd just drip fed follow on orders even, the production line wouldn't have been shuttered but I bet at the time the same babus argued that our domestic solution or our SNECMA solution would be magicked into service to fill the gap, only for the situation to come full circle and then necessitate the previously foreseeable need for an order of additional engines. And lo the cycle continues. I bet in the defence dept they must have a flow chart where these acquisition decisions form a neat circle like the yugas in Hindu mythology always cycle through time.

[FlankerFury]

Originally Posted by FlankerFury

This is the second prototype, looks more traditional fighter-like.

Clearer image of this one. Apparently it's called the J-50.

YouTube Community Post | Armourdesia Military Hardware

[FlankerFury]

Originally Posted by FlankerFury

New images of the Chinese Dorito have surfaced

This is the closest anyone outside a select few has ever been to this jet.






Reddit | WarplanePorn | J-36 close-up images

Here's a 5s video clip of it,
Reddit | WarplanePorn | J-36 landing video

This thing flies like every 2 days, I'll stop posting its every flight unless it reveals something never seen before like the seating layout or internal weapon bays or stuff like that, else the thread might have to be renamed lol :P

[dragracer567]

Originally Posted by FlankerFury

This is the closest anyone outside a select few has ever been to this jet.

Not the prettiest thing now is it!

I take it that a signature of 6th generation fighters seem to be the lack of tail-fins but don’t really understand the utility of this design (stealth?). How would the Yaw work in this design?