[skanchan95]

First Tejas Mk.1A takes flight - Tail no. LA5033
The aircraft was piloted by HAL CTP - Gp Capt K K Venugopal (Retd)





While the Mk.1A has many internal upgrades/modifications over the FOC Mk.1, the only noticeable major external difference on the Mk.1A is that the forward looking RWR on the tail fin has been moved to the wing tips( as in the IAF Mirage 2000 & MiG-29UPG). The other difference is that the Mk.1A gets a wraparound all grey livery while the Mk.1s have a two grey livery.

Tejas Mk.1(FOC) LA5022:

[ads11]

Originally Posted by SmartCat

IAF marks 60 years of its Canberra bombers
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/60324753.cms

Attachment 1671870

Was at Orford Ness over the bank holiday weekend and thought I'd share some snaps. For context the precursor to the RAF would develop bombing tactics on the spit during WW1, before radar essentially being developed on site in the preamble to WW2, following which it took on a life helping with testing and development of the UK's nuclear weapons. Link above has more detail on each point. It's now a nature reserve.

Mainly I thought I'd share the shot of the Canberra from one of the exhibits:


A nuclear gravity bomb, gives a sense of scale projects

A display of the early UK nuclear weapons programme - note the colourful naming scheme for the

[V.Narayan]

MoD issues tender to HAL of Rs 67,000 crores for 97 Tejas Mk 1A Light Combat Aircraft

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/other...s/ar-BB1lxgQS?

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/n...elivery-to-iaf

https://www.business-standard.com/ex...1200986_1.html

MoD has given HAL a tender for 97 Tejas Mark 1A LCAs worth ~Rs 67,000 crores.

HAL is close to completing an earlier MoD order for 40 Tejas Mark 1 fighters (two squadrons). Following that, the MoD placed an order in February 2021 for 83 Tejas Mark 1A fighters (four squadrons) worth Rs 45,700 crore. The six Tejas squadrons already ordered will now be supplemented by five squadrons (97 Tejas Mark 1A), taking the number of indigenous Tejas fighters to 11 squadrons. According to Jane's Tejas Mk 1A deliveries against the order for 83 started in March 2024.

Glad to see real action with the Tejas and order numbers beginning to get meaningful. Focus on defence and cutting through the bureaucracy of the MoD, DRDO etc has been a focus of the current Government. And God alone knows it has come not a day too soon. The next thing MoD needs to do is to enhance HALs output substantially such that it can deliver 4 to 5 Tejas's and 4 to 5 Prachand's each month at least. I have hope that day will come.

File photo of the Tejas Mk 1A.

[SS80]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

MoD issues tender to HAL of Rs 67,000 crores for 97 Tejas Mk 1A Light Combat Aircraft
The next thing MoD needs to do is to enhance HALs output substantially such that it can deliver 4 to 5 Tejas's and 4 to 5 Prachand's each month at least. I have hope that day will come.

File photo of the Tejas Mk 1A.

Good update Sir, happy to see MoD ordering swadeshi product over other foreign planes. With most defence related youtube videos that I have watched, I feel it takes 3 to 5 years of minimum design and testing and another 3yrs for prototype production and a million approvals before a plane is production ready.

So even a rough estimate suggests that most of our fighter jets might be obsolete in terms of technology held by other countries at the time of induction. For example, one youtube video suggest that pilots and planes no longer need to do dog fights in the air, as its all about how far you can detect a enemy and engage them using some form of missile.

Since you hold better understanding and actual experience this field, can you please explain

1. Will Tejas be obsolete very soon like some of our MIGs in use right now?
2. Does fighter plane R&D take a decade to be production ready from drawing board stage
3. Are pilot skills diminishing with advancement in plane technology, example it takes more skill to drive a manual steering car than a power steering.
4. How would you rate a Tejas against say a Sukhoi or Rafale on range, payload, electronics etc I don't know if it's a apple to apple comparison.
5. Last thing, will HAL be able to produce and deliver as per this demand. I dont know if HAL is similar to Postage and Telecom that we had previously. Or is it robust like BEML that is now making world class metro coaches and still stays strong.

Disclaimer:
I dont doubt our HAL or its products, all my opinions posted are from nat geo or youtube, hence a lengthy post.

[Gansan]

OT

Does BEML really manufacture world class metro coaches? My understanding is they assemble a foreign manufacturer's train sets locally, Hyundai Rotem in this case if I remember right. It is like HAL saying they manufacture SU 30 MKi, which they don't.

[Shome]

Originally Posted by SS80

Disclaimer:
I dont doubt our HAL or its products, all my opinions posted are from nat geo or Youtube, hence a lengthy post.

I would recommend you to browse through the LCA threads on Bharatrakshak and all your questions will be answered. One example - https://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?t=7879

IMHO, take all youtube videos with a pinch (bucketload) of salt. Most of these are sponsored to influence public opinion.

Also read on USAF analysis of dogfight during the Vietnam war on your question around guns/WVR vs BVR combat, this still holds true in the current environment.

[ike]

Originally Posted by SS80

3. Are pilot skills diminishing with advancement in plane technology, example it takes more skill to drive a manual steering car than a power steering.

I do not know jack about aircraft or piloting but isn't this a matter of convenience? Cars have evolved over the years and are now more of a mini spaceship rather than four wheels and an NA engine we used to have back in the day but hasn't made driving infinitely more comfortable? The additional skill(if any) required to operate a non powered steering is now redundant, pretty much every vehicle now comes with a power steering.

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by SS80

For example, one Youtube video suggest that pilots and planes no longer need to do dog fights in the air, as its all about how far you can detect a enemy and engage them using some form of missile.

Youtube can be good source of information on military matters, but only if it is a reputed channel. If this was the conclusion by the Youtuber, then he is probably just an 18 year old "enthusiast".

Since you hold better understanding and actual experience this field, can you please explain

Tejas primary role in IAF will be air defence and perhaps close air support. It has not been designed to attack deep behind enemy lines, simply because it is a small aircraft with limited range (combat radius of 300 or 400 km). For other operations, IAF has (and will have in the future) other aircraft in its inventory.

Comparing Tejas vs Su30 vs Rafale will be like comparing cars of different segments (i20 vs Creta vs Tucson). You mostly get what you pay for. Does not mean i20 is waste of money and Creta is the best (or vice versa). But being a multi-role aircaft, Tejas can do everything, but is unlikely to be the 1st choice for many types of missions.


IAF/Govt supporting Tejas program means that we will now have a robust public & private ecosystem of fighter aircraft component makers. While Tejas Mk1 took time, Tejas Mk2/Twin engine Navy fighter aircraft/AMCA development will have a much faster turnaround time.

[neerajku]

One question I have not been able to fathom so far; is it weaponised and ready for deployment, in case of a war or is it a trial going on? My understanding is the weaponisation is still a few years away. May just have the guns and nothing beyond.
Happy to be corrected though.

[MaNishi]

I understand that the first lot of Tejas- Flying Dager is already weaponized and deployed.

There is continuous development on weaponization and integration of new weapon platforms. Tejas recently participated in Exercise Bharat Shakti, where we lost one of the Aircraft to an unfortunate incident.


The aircraft that was lost was part of the End user inventory, meaning the aircraft was delivered as per Operational Specification asked by the End user and in operation by the end user..IAF.

[PratikPatel]

Originally Posted by SS80

Good update Sir, happy to see MoD ordering swadeshi product over other foreign planes. With most defence related Youtube videos that I have watched, I feel it takes 3 to 5 years of minimum design and testing and another 3yrs for prototype production and a million approvals before a plane is production ready.

So even a rough estimate suggests that most of our fighter jets might be obsolete in terms of technology held by other countries at the time of induction. For example, one Youtube video suggest that pilots and planes no longer need to do dog fights in the air, as its all about how far you can detect a enemy and engage them using some form of missile.

Since you hold better understanding and actual experience this field, can you please explain

1. Will Tejas be obsolete very soon like some of our MIGs in use right now?

2. Does fighter plane R&D take a decade to be production ready from drawing board stage

3. Are pilot skills diminishing with advancement in plane technology, example it takes more skill to drive a manual steering car than a power steering.

4. How would you rate a Tejas against say a Sukhoi or Rafale on range, payload, electronics etc I don't know if it's an apple to apple comparison.


.

Honestly, looks like you have been getting your information from reading lifafa journalism from reporters who have absolutely no clue what they are spewing out.

1. Tejas Mk.1 & it’s subsequent sub variants will still be relevant 15 years from now. There will be improvements with each variant. Most people think that 5G Low Observable aircraft makes everything else obsolete. That’s just plain wrong and un-informed. The only truly mass produced 5G LO aircraft currently in service is the F35 Lightning. Even this aircraft will switch between LO & conventional AC setup depending on the missions it needs to execute.

2. R&D for a clean sheet A/C can take upto 15 to 20 years depending on the complexity of the platform. For example the next generation US fighter program called NGAD which is expected to give US Airforce its first 6th Generation Aircraft has been development since the late 90s.

3. An ace fighter pilot once described dog fights as ‘a knife fight in a phone booth’. Dog fights are not going to be a thing of the past, in fact they will become even more relevant as the rules of engagement will change due to political necessity.

4. You are comparing apples & oranges. All the A/C mentioned by you are of different categories & have different mission sets to fulfill. The Tejas is a light combat aircraft, while the Rafales are medium and SU 30 is heavy aircraft.

Originally Posted by neerajku

One question I have not been able to fathom so far; is it weaponised and ready for deployment, in case of a war or is it a trial going on? My understanding is the weaponisation is still a few years away. May just have the guns and nothing beyond.
Happy to be corrected though.

The Tejas Mk1 has achieved Final Operational Clearance, meaning it is ready to go into combat with all its capabilities certified as mission ready.

[Shome]

A good read on the FCS capabilities of the Tejas!
https://swarajyamag.com/defence/the-...in-one-picture

The Tejas getting delayed is not just about us trying to do things for the first time, but also that we are trying to do this "RIGHT" the very first time. To all who ask about the relevance of the machine in todays' environment, it's not just the weapons delivery that needs to be measured, but the perspective that this experience is going to help us build better, we have a very good baseline with the Tejas, probably a world beater in certain scenarios for the role it's intended for, which will help in catapulting the next gen of fighters to come over the next couple of decades.

[SSridhar]

Originally Posted by neerajku

One question I have not been able to fathom so far; is it weaponised and ready for deployment, in case of a war or is it a trial going on? My understanding is the weaponisation is still a few years away. May just have the guns and nothing beyond.
Happy to be corrected though.

Since 2018, Tejas has been participating in IAF's Gaganshakti Exercises. It is not possible without weaponization, is it?.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by SS80

3. Are pilot skills diminishing with advancement in plane technology, example it takes more skill to drive a manual steering car than a power steering..

Definitely not. Whether you are a commercial, military or private pilot everybody has the same basic flying skills. In fact just about all pilots follow the same training regime.

It is true that we have seen more and more automation in the cockpit. But pilots are still trained and certified to fly planes manually.

In addition pilots need to be trained and be competent in managing a flight in a very different environment from say 30-40 years ago. Just because you fly on autopilot doesn’t make it easier. It is difficult to measure, but Imwould say the demands on both civil and military pilots have been increasing over the years.

That also shows in the time and flightime required to take on certain roles and or types of planes.

Flying a military plane has yet another dimension that is getting more complicated by the day. These are fighting machines, so it’s not just about being a pilot, you need to understand the various weapon systems, interactions between systems, tactics and so on.

Traditional so called stick and ridder skills are par for the course for any pilot. Always have always will be. But there is an ever increasing demand on all sorts of topics and issues that pilots need to understand, need to be able to deal with.

Was navigating with a sextant more challenging than current navigation techniques? It was certainly different. But in those days you also flee in a near empty airspace. Nowadays you fly with minimum um vertical and horizontal separation from traffic around you. Autopilot is mandatory, because humans can’t fly that accurately. Pilots need to have intimate knowledge of their navigation systems. And trust me, it is way more complex than shooting a star with a sextant and plotting your position in a chart. I have done both and still do both.

Jeroen

[neerajku]

Originally Posted by SSridhar

Since 2018, Tejas has been participating in IAF's Gaganshakti Exercises. It is not possible without weaponization, is it?.

Exercises are different from war-games.