Team-BHP - Boeing 777 - Pilot's Review

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Originally Posted by Jeroen (Post 4140895)

Stay tuned for more. As per the interview on the link I provided, soon we will be seeing even longer flights.

The longest scheduled passenger flight was SQ21 from Newark to Singapore, flown with a A340-500 @ 15345km and a flight time of 18h 50mins. The flight will be restarted once Singapore Airlines receive their A350-900ULR's. Until then, QR has the bragging rights.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vishy76 (Post 4143143)

The only thing that comes close is the A380 in terms of space. Looks like airbus is ditching the A380.

Boeing has the 747-8i, which is a near direct competitor for the A380 and not the 777-300ER.
The A380-800 has a typical seating capacity of 544, with a range of 15200km.
In comparison, the largest 777 variant today, the B777-300ER has a typical seating capacity of 365, with a range of 13650km. Way off!
But the B747-8i has a typical seating capacity of 467, with a range of 14320km. Now that, is more of a competition to the A380-800.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeroen (Post 4149187)

Here is an interesting incident involving a 777.

http://avherald.com/h?article=4a51a0a5&opt=0

Sorry if it is naive question, I want to know what role does the fighter aircrafts play in such cases? They are said to have intercepted the commercial liner. I also see terms used like being escorted or confront by these fighters.

I meant if there is something wrong in the plane or someone inside with bad intentions, what can those fighters do? At these level will threats by the fighters work?

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Originally Posted by V.Narayan (Post 4149316)

Would love to hear the views of the professionals as to what causes a cockpit not to respond to multiple requests, via radio, for identification

The article eludes to the probable cause, the flight crew dialled in the wrong frequency into the radio. In most cases when switching frequency you would typically establish yourself on the new frequency. So not sure what happened here.

When flying under Instrument Flying Rules (IFR) as they were, there is a very clear protocol on what to do if you loose communication.

According to prunne communication was temporarily lost and re-established quickly, but they send the fighters as a pre-caution.

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/5...r-germany.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordday (Post 4149419)

Sorry if it is naive question, I want to know what role does the fighter aircrafts play in such cases?

I meant if there is something wrong in the plane or someone inside with bad intentions, what can those fighters do? At these level will threats by the fighters work?

The fighters go after such an aircraft to first of all get some eyes on the situation. You want to know more then just seeing a blip on the radar screen where it shouldn’t be.

The FAA has established a protocol for this and every pilot in the USA needs to adhere to it, I assume protocol’s in other countries to be very similar.

https://www.faa.gov/news/safety_brie...Procedures.pdf

These intercepts happen quite often. Not so much with commercial planes, that is actually quite rare. But General Aviation planes (i.e. the little planes I fly) often wander into restricted airspace by accident. They might not even carry a radio either.

The fighter might be able to establish if the aircraft has sustained damage, or if the landing gear is properly deployed. Technically they could shoot it down if they believe it could be a threat (once established it is hijacked or so). To my knowledge that has never happened. I don’t know what protocol they would follow in order to reach a shoot down decision. Hope it never happens.

There has been the odd case, where a GA plane got intercepted an the fighters could see the (single) pilot slumped into his seat. They just followed the plane until it crashed. Either the pilot had a medical problem such as a heart attach, brain haemorrhage, or maybe he lost conscious due to low oxygen. Not much they can do other then watch, report/warn what is happening and see it happen.

Here some more insights on these intercepts on GA aircraft.

http://www.airspacemag.com/flight-to...-line-5841988/

Jeroen

Quote:

Originally Posted by V.Narayan (Post 4149316)

Would love to hear the views of the professionals as to what causes a cockpit not to respond to multiple requests, via radio, for identification

In all probability, this seems like a crew error, although it could be a radio failure as well which was then rectified by resetting the circuit breaker.

1. Now selection of improper frequencies is not a big deal, happens fairly regularly. In the 777, the next sector frequency is tuned in the standby side, and when you make it active, the previous frequency is now in the standby mode. In that case we switch to the previous frequency and confirm the new frequency.

2. As for 121.5- unless you increase the volume on guard radio, you won't hear anything.

3. Apart from that, most of us monitor air to air comms. The BA flight would have confirmed the frequency had they asked.

4. 9W118 did not squawk 7600, the standard squawk code for lost comms.

5. In case of VHF radio failure, the crew had HF radios, ACARS and the CPDLC available to communicate. The failure of all these is simultaneously is an improbable occurrence, because the VHF radios that CPDLC and the ACARS depend on are separate(3 individual VHF radios).

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordday (Post 4149419)

There is something called military interception signaling, i.e the procedure to follow when an aircraft is intercepted by fighters and is unable to communicate. MIS. After 9/11, intruders flying NORDO are given, after fighter interception, one warning to do as they are told and land where they are told. There are no second warnings.

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Originally Posted by DCEite (Post 4149662)

Could the passengers of the Jet airways flight - which as involved in Radio lost incident - actually see the fighter aircrafts from their window seats?

It would be like a kid screaming to his parents - Look outside maa, i see a fighter jet out there!

Escort Photo(Example)

9W 118 interception photo.(By Mike Stewart)

One thing I noticed in the video from a following plane, is the wake/hot air leaving the plane's engines. Never noticed it from within the plane on the few occasions I had to sit behind the wing portion.

Is this wake visible only from afar, i.e. either from the ground or another plane?

Another thing is the airspace seemed crowded. I have rarely seen another aircraft in air in my brief experience of flying, but then I have never flown westward. So no idea of the Middle Eastern or European or American airspaces. But is it common there for one plane to be able to. have a visual contact with another plane?

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordday (Post 4149419)

I meant if there is something wrong in the plane or someone inside with bad intentions, what can those fighters do? At these level will threats by the fighters work?

As mentioned by others, it has more to do with a human visibly seeing and reporting the situation in real time than making decisions based on what you see on a screen.

That said, I am not sure if anyone will be ready to shoot down a hijacked commercial airliner full of passengers instead of waiting for them to crash it somewhere. End result may be same, but the political and moral dilemma of ordering a jetliner to be shoot down may over shadow any decision making.

About the guidelines for India, remember reading a news article years back that IAF will escort the hijacked airliner in Indian airspace, however the order to shoot down a plane will have to be approved by President of the country. Not able to find that article now.

However there is another one regarding same topic -

Link

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The doubtful nature of the aircraft can be assessed from factors like its deviation from originally allotted flight path, non-compliance by pilots to instructions given by Air Traffic Control, switching off the plane's transponders, no response to radio telephony and aligning of the flight path to a strategic target like VVIP areas or nuclear installations.

"Unless the pilot communicates, to the full satisfaction of the ATC, that the plane has not been hijacked and a technical failure of the transponder is responsible for communication links failing, the plane would be considered hijacked... Once it is determined that the plane will be used as a missile to target strategic buildings or thickly populated buildings, the aircraft will be termed hostile and IAF will take action to destroy it," the official said.