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![]() | #361 |
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| Re: Indian Naval Aviation - Air Arm & its Carriers Amongst the plethora of international exercises that the Indian military has taken part in the last few years, the P8i of the Indian navy took part in the Sea dragon exercise, an annual ASW exercise that takes place in Guam and India had taken part last year as well. Other countries include the American hosts, India, Japan, Canada, Australia and South Korea who fielded P8A, P8I, P1, CP140 Aurora and P3C Orion maritime reconnaissance aircraft - the best ASW aircraft of the democratic realm. There some “claims” now that the proposal to purchase 6 additional P8i aircraft is under review with the possibility of an indigenously made maritime patrol version of the C295 being considered instead. I hope these remain rumours as the P8i is a much more capable aircraft for this role and we would still need additional maritime patrol aircraft as the 12 + 6 P8i aircraft wouldn’t be sufficient to patrol the IOR, so there is still room for an indigenous C295 maritime patrol fleet. ![]() |
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![]() | #362 | |
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| Re: Indian Naval Aviation - Air Arm & its Carriers Quote:
Admirable though it may be to attempt to have a C295 based indigenous ASW fixed wing variant, let's be real, there's a very good off the shelf platform that has widespread usage already. Why complicate the maintenance chain? Besides, this domestic effort should be very low on the list of priorities given there's much more pressing domestic efforts that have yet to get off the ground (I'm looking at the tanker programme, the AWAC programme, just to name a few). And besides, instead of wasting what little development money there is on this C295 ASW variant, just order more Sea Guardian drones to expand the persistence and reach within the IOR. It's available now, and it's a known quantity. Plus being an American platform too, it'll likely play well with the P8. Heck India could make a case to pioneer joint teaming for ASW platforms. There, that's your ambitious but actually useful goal if you're that hell bent on it. That's a model if successful I'm sure our regional allies would happily get on board with. | |
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| Re: Indian Naval Aviation - Air Arm & its Carriers Quote:
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Last edited by dragracer567 : 21st January 2022 at 15:03. | |||
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| Re: Indian Naval Aviation - Air Arm & its Carriers Quote:
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The P8 line however is seeing export success, as navies globally come round to the idea that we're reentering an era of increased subsurface competition and atrophied ASW capabilities needing a much needed boost. Plus there's the fact that the P8 is based on a hugely successful long running commercial platform (the 737 NG iirc). I guess that makes a lot of the spare parts and maintenance tail a much more palatable and manageable prospect than other bespoke military fixed wing platforms, further adding to the appeal. And given the size advantage it enjoys over the P3 Orions, you have room to add more capability, a clean slate if you will. Thus you can see military planners getting super creative with the P8 as their base: be it toying with the idea of it being an arsenal ship for tube dropped UAV swarms; or a platform to go after surface ships too with the likes of the Naval Strike Missile; or even an overland ISR asset (as seen in domestic use) - you can start to see the appeal in the platform. Australia are an interesting analogue I feel, given the fact that they've fully come to terms with getting their elbows out against muscular Chinese posturing, the RAN is going to need to cope with increased PLAN boats in their neighbourhood. Thus they've made the investments to get ahead of the problem. I think given the fact that the Australian military is primarily gearing itself against the PLAAF and PLAN, has budgetary pressures of their own (like India, though perhaps not on the same overall total budget scale), I think there could be important lessons to be learned for the Indian side in how best to get the most out of their capabilities. I'm a big fan of Australia's Airpower Teaming concept (ie, Loyal Wingman drones to augment their 4th gen fighters). I think that's an excellent example of clever thinking in how to meet the operational requirements within the fiscal constraints that could be insightful for Indian defence planning and procurement (that being said Australia's decision to purchase a 70+ order of M1A Abrams MBTs is baffling, so maybe there synergies go further..). | ||||
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| Re: Indian Naval Aviation - Air Arm & its Carriers The tabloid link 1 The tabloid link 2 Youtube Link: India Today link that likely caused all this speculation The Print link which claims that FMS deals and government to government deals won't be impacted Quote:
The need for more ASW aircraft becomes more pressing when you realize that the first IL-38 maritime patrol aircraft has been retired today with the entire fleet likely to be retired soon. So, apart from the Kamov helicopters and domestically manufactured aircraft, India's entire ASW and maritime patrol fleet would be of US origin! ![]() Quote:
Last edited by dragracer567 : 22nd January 2022 at 02:24. | ||
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![]() | #366 | |
Senior - BHPian ![]() | Re: Indian Naval Aviation - Air Arm & its Carriers Quote:
Removing a part of the Rafale's wing before it is taken down in the lift? Is it even practical??? | |
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![]() | #367 | |
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| Re: Indian Naval Aviation - Air Arm & its Carriers Quote:
For starters, the numbers seem to have shrunk further from 36 to 26 fighters consisting of 18 single-seaters and 8 twin seaters - just about enough to fill the air wing of the Vikrant. This will be bought via a government-to-government deal and not as a tender, so the acquisition process should be short. Dassault seems to have "resolved" the problem of the Rafale not fitting in the elevators by removing a part of the wing of the Rafale before it can fit the carrier elevator. I am not entirely sure how feasible this solution is though, is removing a wing of a fighter jet as easy as removing a door of a Jeep wranger? ![]() The MD of Boeing defense India meanwhile, has stated that "Boeing has developed a capability specifically for the F/A-18 Super Hornet that will allow for the faster movement of the aircraft between the flight deck and hangar deck without having to remove or modify any part of the aircraft" which means that the FA-18 will fit in the elevators with its folding wing mechanism in a not-so-indirect reference to the solution for the Rafale. Overall, I am guessing that the Navy will get to make the orders before the Air Force given this is a government-to-government while the IAF is going for a tender. Link Last edited by dragracer567 : 1st February 2022 at 00:53. | |
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| Re: Indian Naval Aviation - Air Arm & its Carriers Quote:
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As for Boeing, they still haven't said exactly what their specific capability for the Indian F-18 will be. Maybe they just move the wing joint inboard (ie, make the folding segment larger)? Quote:
Wry joking aside, I guess timeline wise maybe this time next year we can expect a decision on this deal realistically speaking. I don't suppose there are plans for live trials, even on the elevators of the Vikrant itself? I guess that would be the best way to test the efficacy of the two separate approaches. | |||
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| Re: Indian Naval Aviation - Air Arm & its Carriers I am a bit fluxomed. Should not we have carried this exercise of selecting the fighter for IAC1 atleast a couple of years back ? We are doing trials in 2022, our beauracracy will hopefully place the order in 2023 and the first planes for IAC 1 may come in by 2025, so what's the point of commissioning an aircraft carrier if we do not have any aircrafts to fly from it ? Interesting are the functioning of our behemoth country |
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| Re: Indian Naval Aviation - Air Arm & its Carriers Quote:
![]() Last edited by V.Narayan : 2nd February 2022 at 23:05. | |
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| Re: Indian Naval Aviation - Air Arm & its Carriers Quote:
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So, Boeing claims that the F/A-18 is not only compatible with the Vikrant but also the Vikramaditya which I believe has even smaller elevators. Also, the last point on the risk to structures removal seems targeted specifically at the Rafale. Now, the F/A-18 does seem to have an edge due to the fact that it would actually fit in the elevators and would probably have a lower unit cost. But then, infrastructure already exists for the Rafale in India and India has never really flown American fighter jets since atleast WW2 (and I'm told familiarity really matters for complex systems like fighter jets). Quote:
Last edited by dragracer567 : 3rd February 2022 at 02:16. | |||
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![]() | #372 |
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| Re: Indian Naval Aviation - Air Arm & its Carriers I am not even qualified to be an armchair admiral. But here are my few thoughts:- 1. The new leaks being floated regarding the cancellation of further orders of the P8I seem to be a way of signalling to the USA that too much sermonising about CATSA means we have other options - alibet not as optimal. 2. From the way things are developing it seems like the political brass has thrown their weight behind AMCA & TEDBF. So whatever fighter is bought for the Vikrant will be a stop gap arrangement. 3. Something is cooking on the Nuclear Attack Submarine scene. If the french play along we can see a govt. to govt. order with possibly some subs from the french yards. In this case the IAC-2 will be pushed back, but will definitely come later. In my humble opinion they will try and see if the nuclear reactor tech for the attack submarine can be used in the IAC-2. |
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| Re: Indian Naval Aviation - Air Arm & its Carriers Quote:
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| Re: Indian Naval Aviation - Air Arm & its Carriers
There's a reason why Indian defence procurement is viewed with the same exhausted fear that someone from ancient Crete would've treated the Labyrinth. It's a dizzying maze that often makes no sense and will likely end in hurt but the prospect of the reward at the end is still enough to tempt vendors to keep trying due to the size of the prize. Quote:
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On a final note, in this era of the revival of great power competition, expect to see naval budgets be bolstered. If India wants to play in that game then it's only natural that the IN will start getting a bigger piece of the pie (relative to historically). You need only look at the changes Xi Xinping made when he revamped the Chinese military, with massive cuts to the PLA but Huge increases to the PLAN, and to a lesser extent the PLAAF. | |||||||
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![]() | #375 |
Senior - BHPian ![]() | Re: Indian Naval Aviation - Air Arm & its Carriers The Indian Navy has received its 12th and final P-8I. The aircraft has landed in Dabolim. This completes the optional clause for four additional P-8Is, signed in 2016. The 12th and final P-8I is N674DS (c/n 64893, l/n 8834). It's flew as BOE234 from Boeing Field(King County International Airport) to Dabolim, India, with stops at Honolulu and Guam International Airports , and will be registered as IN331 after its induction in Dabolim based INAS316 - the 2nd P-8I squadron. ![]() ![]() |
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