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| Re: Indian Naval Aviation - Air Arm & its Carriers As is the standard procedure for foreign military sales, the US has formally notified the US Congress about the possible sale of 6 additional Boeing P8i Neptunes for the Indian Navy. This is on top of the 8 aircraft in service and 4 on order. The Navy had a wishlist of 10 more aircraft but budgetary constraints mean that they get only 6 for now. According to The Hindu newspaper, the 6 aircraft will come with American encrypted systems which India can access now after the COMCASA agreement. Earlier aircraft had commercial off-the-shelf systems (perhaps these can be retrofitted?). On a sidenote, I thought the Indo-US relations will see rockier waters after the initial lukewarm American response to Indian requests for aid with the second wave of the COVID-19 pandemic but I believe they have provided by far the biggest aid till now (along with the EU and UK). I guess this puts India solidly on the western bloc despite assurances to Russia. Quote:
![]() Last edited by dragracer567 : 1st May 2021 at 21:56. | |
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| Re: Indian Naval Aviation - Air Arm & its Carriers On the topic of this additional Neptune order there's more good news in the form of the LRASM (Long Range Anti Ship Missile) programme. See below: Quote:
Essentially once the USN gets the LRASM on their P-8s, it's only a matter of time before other operators get their hands on one of the most exciting stand off weapons currently being developed. Essentially if India Neptunes were equipped with it, it would bring the same benefits the USN is after and provide a very welcome long range strike capability to the IN. You can see the synergies in the prospective use scenarios from an Indian perspective as well. You only have to look at the rapid growth of P-8 operators to know this is a home run programme as far as the US is concerned. 3 members of the Quad (with the exception of Japan which relies on their domestic offering) all use the P-8, meaning not just ample opportunity to joint exercises and sharing of knowledge but more pointedly sharing specific knowhow with regards to the hunting of PLAN assets that are the primary objectives for most of the aforementioned operators. With South Korea joining the programme and the RAF also operating it, that's only more partners for Indian P-8 fleet staff to explore shared learning opportunities with. The only problem the P-8 programme faces actually is internecine jealousy from sister arms (usually the air arms) of defence forces, not liking the Navy aviators and their big jet encroaching on their turf and the sort of missions they'd hope to keep to themselves. Seems ridiculous but it's playing out between the USAF and the USN and I wonder if the IAF might kick a fuss too seeing as IN Neptunes were used for ISR missions overland. | |
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| Re: Indian Naval Aviation - Air Arm & its Carriers Quote:
I believe I have shared this video before: Quote:
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![]() | #334 |
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| Re: Indian Naval Aviation - Air Arm & its Carriers IAC-1 OSINT updates & new details on the PLAN Type 3 carrierBeen seeing a lot of movement on Twitter with posts related to IAC-1, all precipitated by a surprising glut of the PLANs Type 3 carrier ending up on Tiktok of all places. ![]() The original overhead photo of Vikrant that precipitated the twitter discussion between Andreas Rupprecht & HI Sutton. Dated from roughly April this year, the big change from the last overhead photo seems to be a third flight line drawn port side of the main island (imo I wonder if it might be a bit too close to the island superstructure for safe launches). Another thing that I found curious is how heavily angled towards port the two take off positions & flight lines are, it's almost as if they're angled at an offset to the ski ramp. To whit I can't immediately recall any instance for STOBAR flat tops having flight lines this heavily canted. ![]() Following on from this recent photo of the IAC-1, a comparison between it and the PLANs Type 2 carrier, the Shandong. Source
![]() Movement on the IAC-1 news front is seemingly quite literal if satellite OSINT is anything to go by ![]() Closing with a nice little port side profile of Vikrant, looking much more fleshed out than when we last saw her being towed out of dry dock. COVID clearly hampered the timeline but I imagine proper sea trials must be soon. All in all lots of new detail about two carrier programmes in the Asian region that are undoubtedly of interest. There's glimpses of the progress of IAC-1 and a surprising level of new imagery relating to the first truly supercarrier sized effort from the PLAN. The latter really is coming along at the breakneck speed that seems to characterise Chinese shipyards of late. It's impressive given the scale of what are big new projects, and somewhat worrying too no doubt (though quality remains to be seen). Disclaimer: Just going to point out that everything here is entirely open source, be it online literature or from members of the OSINT twitter community. In essence this is all from fellow enthusiasts, experts & keen observers. Nothing nefarious I promise |
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| Re: Indian Naval Aviation - Air Arm & its Carriers Quote:
For India, if media reports are anything to go by, the future fleet would probably be a mix of TEDBF and Super hornets/Rafales. But despite the optimistic timelines, we can't expect either to be operational before the 2030s (by the time of which we'll have clarity on if we can afford a third carrier), so we can expect the Mig-29ks to be the staple for atleast a decade more which also means there probably won't be sufficient aircraft for two carriers, somewhat like the British situation now. Quote:
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| Re: Indian Naval Aviation - Air Arm & its Carriers Quote:
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A ST needs a 4 to 6 hour notice to raise steam before the engine can get the ship moving from alongside. If the warship is on alert it has to keep burning fuel to keep the steam pressure up to enable it to sail away immediately. A GT switches on literally with the press of a button and similarly can be shut down instantaneously. Hope this helps. | ||
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| Re: Indian Naval Aviation - Air Arm & its Carriers Indian Navy commissions its first MK III ALH unit at Goa on 19 Apr 21 Quote:
INAS 323 Commissioned Defence PRO Tweet 1. The Indian Navy already operates eight ALH MK I (at Kochi and Goa) and one ALH MK III (at Maldives) 2. This new squadron (INAS 323) will operate the new Naval variant (Maritime Reconnaissance variant) of MK IIIs. 3. This new variant is much different from existing Mk IIIs for sensor fit and naval specific customisations. 4. Helicopters with indigenous Low Frequency Dunking Sonar (LFDS) is also (supposedly) under production with a time line of delivery by Mar 2023. However, the recent second wave would have derailed it a bit. 5. The helicopters can also be modified into an airborne Medical Intensive Care Unit (MICU). Some info here and here Attaching few photos of the MICU ![]() ![]() ![]() Last edited by dhanushmenon : 6th June 2021 at 12:34. | |
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| Re: Indian Naval Aviation - Air Arm & its Carriers Quote:
![]() ![]() I'm glad the ALH is finding its place with the Navy with shore based squadrons if not with onboard units. I am familiar with earlier Marks, the Dhruv CS. We operated one for years over several hundreds of hours and she never gave us much trouble. And all of this was demanding low altitude nape of the earth flying over hill and dale. I wonder if we can develop a land based ASW version. | |
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| Re: Indian Naval Aviation - Air Arm & its Carriers Quote:
![]() This really brings into perspective the boiler problems the INS Vikramaditya faced in its early days. It also makes sense now that the Chinese haven’t fitted gas turbines in their carriers given how they have lagged behind in jet engine technology (though their destroyers seem to have Gas Turbines). The Indian navy has the luxury of buying what they lack! | |
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| Re: Indian Naval Aviation - Air Arm & its Carriers Quote:
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| Re: Indian Naval Aviation - Air Arm & its Carriers Quote:
Pretty reliable airframe it is. The more you keep it in the air, the more trouble free the aircraft remains. You keep it down for a week and it starts throwing tantrums ![]() ALH was designed for use over land (specifically for the IA and IAF on the valleys). Navy and CG just took a piggy back ride to secure few airframes when the project started out. However, HAL did a tremendous job to dovetail the specific and demanding requirements typical of naval operations. The AFCS software for Naval and Army/IAF versions are different and so are many other features. The new airframes (naval MK IIIs) have taken this to the next level. That said, the fact remains that this helicopter was designed as a shore based platform and those few limitations remain for naval operations. Land based ASW version do not make sense to me. The submarine (the intended target for an ASW helicopter), lurks in the dark deep sea. To hunt a submarine, it needs to be a ship borne helicopter. A land based version can at best sanitise the entry/ exit channels near the harbour. Submarines hardly operate in shallow waters as it is dangerous in numerous counts and the risk may not outweigh the probability of positive result. | |
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| Re: Indian Naval Aviation - Air Arm & its Carriers Quote:
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| Re: Indian Naval Aviation - Air Arm & its Carriers Quote:
![]() X doesn't quite mark the spot, had to ask the author, but instead it just shows the relative position for the grainy image where you Can see the tell tale signs of the FC-31 with its twin engines, chined lines and high mounted cockpit. There are of course other mock ups in place, including of the J-15 that's already operational, a heavy lift helicopter and of course the PLANs indigenous AEW aircraft variantSource There's also been a corresponding write up on the War Zone for those interested. I'd like to highlight a paragraph from the above that I found quite telling, if only for the challenges that say HAL faces with navalising the Tejas for example. Though the FC-31 has until now been a private corporation led programme, lacking the full impetus of the PLA military industrial complex, you can imagine that this might change should Chinese leadership recognise that the FC-31 is their carrier borne fighter of today, not just tomorrow. And even then, with the weight of the not inconsiderable industrial complex behind it, it's facing these many issues. Small wonder then what an uphill task HAL faces not just with a naval Tejas but making a clean sheet TEDBF, a programme where I think they (HAL) might've bitten off more than they can chew. Quote:
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| Re: Indian Naval Aviation - Air Arm & its Carriers Quote:
To add, any future acquisition (domestic or foreign) is dependent on a well-performing economy for which there is no guarantee either as we have painfully learnt since 2017 while there is no appetite in South Block to turn the Indian armed forces into a leaner fighting force for now. | |
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