[rakeshnair14]

Originally Posted by Ashley2

This should be based on 912 - 49WB as Ultra has FOH door and wider track upto 2340mm as compared to regular 2100mm in LP.
This as seen should be with 235/75 R 17.5 tubeless radials and that makes to think its Ultra.
And for all 49 wb models, they are rated as 9T GVW.

This particular bus was built on Tata's LP 9.6Ton 5300mm wheelbase Ultra chassis platform.
It was only for a demo purpose, the bus was in Mumbai in the month of April'13 scheduled for a customer clinic at their dealer Bafna Motor's Thane showroom.
It is being marketed as Paradiso G2 model , whereas the expected TATA MARCOPOLO Multiaxle buses would be called Paradiso G7 buses.

Would be posting few pics from my side of this same bus soon.

[rakeshnair14]

[quote=ranjithrnath;3026977]Me too seeing ACGL built 12m buses for the first time.
This was the exact seating layout in the bus.

TATA website shows the diesel airport tarmac buses with Marcopolo body, 245hp, BS4, ALLISON AT and I was surprised to see an ACGL one. I don't recollect whether the Transmission was auto/manual. Is this built on a BS3 model 1618c or 1624c?


Dear Ranjith ,
Hope this would clear out your doubts.
This is TML's LPO 1624 Tarmac Coach built by TATA MARCOPOLO at their Lucknow plant.
Its a BS4 Diesel Low Floor Coach with all pneumatic suspension (Kneeling Operations).
Its got a 240 BHP equipped with Semi Automatic (Allison Transmission)tranny.
You can find these buses currently ply for GoAir at CSIA,Mumbai.
And if I am not mistaken few are operating for SpiceJet at Chennai, Kolkatta for Jet, Delhi for GoAir & Jet, Assam for Air India.

Here are few snaps that I clicked of GoAir's at CSIA Mumbai ,

[v1kram]

Saw a ONTEST bus (similar to the bus pictured below) in Coimbatore with TN 37 temporary registration.
As per the available information, it's a 1618C CRDi model and the engine being a downgraded version of PRIMA series.
(Photo Courtesy: Respective Owner)

[Ashley2]

Even I saw a mule. Its seen often in Avinashi road. It was a 11m BS IV with Isbe engine.

[v1kram]

Originally Posted by Ashley2

Even I saw a mule. Its seen often in Avinashi road. It was a 11m BS IV with Isbe engine.

I saw it couple of times in Kamaraj (road connecting Hope college and singanallur bus stand). Most of the TATA test mules will be getting fueled/parked at a petrol pump in that road.
Even what I saw was a 11m version.
Any information on full specification?

[Ashley2]

Originally Posted by v1kram

I saw it couple of times in Kamaraj (road connecting Hope college and singanallur bus stand). Most of the TATA test mules will be getting fueled/parked at a petrol pump in that road.
Even what I saw was a 11m version.
Any information on full specification?

Tata initially didn't have any 11m BS IV buses for Jnnurm2 as J2 spec were initially released only for 12m buses. But now for non J2 and some J2 cities 11m can be used and some cities ask specifically 11m. Considering these issues may be this is developed.
Also these Isbe Bs4 SCR engines were initially available with 160hp only. Later to comply with acceleration norms of 0.8m/sec sq they are upgraded to 180hp. These engines in BS3 version is available in Prima.
Will share further info if received.

[directinjection]

Originally Posted by v1kram

Saw a ONTEST bus (similar to the bus pictured below) in Coimbatore with TN 37 temporary registration.
As per the available information, it's a 1618C CRDi model and the engine being a downgraded version of PRIMA series.
(Photo Courtesy: Respective Owner)

Don't like the wiper position. Wipers are obstructing driver's view. The 12M version in Delhi has wipers mounted at the bottom of the windshield and the blades rest horizontally.

Design wise, these buses are more or less in the same league as the old gen buses. The engine noise and heat intrude inside the bus (I'm talking about the CNG ones in Delhi). Why don't our manufacturers come out with rear engined chassis type buses?

[v1kram]

Originally Posted by Ashley2

Tata initially didn't have any 11m BS IV buses for Jnnurm2 as J2 spec were initially released only for 12m buses. But now for non J2 and some J2 cities 11m can be used and some cities ask specifically 11m. Considering these issues may be this is developed.
Also these Isbe Bs4 SCR engines were initially available with 160hp only. Later to comply with acceleration norms of 0.8m/sec sq they are upgraded to 180hp. These engines in BS3 version is available in Prima.
Will share further info if received.

Thanks for the information.
So now TML has 11m BS IV buses based on Cummins derived engine and their own 697 engine (supplied to MTC and BMTC)?

Originally Posted by directinjection

Don't like the wiper position. Wipers are obstructing driver's view. The 12M version in Delhi has wipers mounted at the bottom of the windshield and the blades rest horizontally.

Design wise, these buses are more or less in the same league as the old gen buses. The engine noise and heat intrude inside the bus (I'm talking about the CNG ones in Delhi). Why don't our manufacturers come out with rear engined chassis type buses?

Wiper position and dashboard position were main flaws of this design based on the driver feedbacks.
Rear engine buses are concerned as expensive to procure and maintain (especially for STC's), hence our manufacturers come up with more sophisticated FE models. (AL JanBus was an effective outcome/result).

[Ashley2]

V1kram you are right.
BSIV with 697 is with regular floor and these are with semi low floor.
Direct injection- These buses have two wipers powered by two separate motors. When initially MTC procured them wiper motors were removed in few months and kept as a spare. After few months other wipers were also removed.
Technically these buses doesn't facilitate panoramic swing wipers as they don't pass the clear vision area as mandated by CMVR. One of the reason for this is the high point mounted dash board which obstructs the view. So the simple method is to give roof mounted one's.

[gschandra]

Can some one explain why 245hp engine is required for an airport tarmac coach covering short distances at a very low speed?

Even I don't find any requirement of high torque as it never needs to over come a gradient with over load or so.

Considering engine driven compressor for A/C and air suspension requirements also, i suppose 180hp engine would be sufficient for this job.

[Motard_Blr]

Originally Posted by gschandra

Can some one explain why 245hp engine is required for an airport tarmac coach covering short distances at a very low speed?

Even I don't find any requirement of high torque as it never needs to over come a gradient with over load or so.

Considering engine driven compressor for A/C and air suspension requirements also, i suppose 180hp engine would be sufficient for this job.

My educated guess is speed in case of emergency evacuation. Maybe some one else has proper information on this.

[rakeshnair14]

Originally Posted by gschandra

Can some one explain why 245hp engine is required for an airport tarmac coach covering short distances at a very low speed?

Even I don't find any requirement of high torque as it never needs to over come a gradient with over load or so.

Considering engine driven compressor for A/C and air suspension requirements also, i suppose 180hp engine would be sufficient for this job.

Well mate! Its depends on the variants . TML has tarmac coaches variants ranging from 160 bhp till 240 bhp (few in BSIV while the rest in BSIII ) .In the end its purely the customers call what engine specs he needs.
Well also to be noted as per DGCA rules, irrespective to its engine capacity, every ground support vehicles such has these are to be installed with speed governors which lock their speed , not exceeding 50Kmph.
Even cars & SUVs plying inside the airport need to have speed governors installed.
If I am not mistaken, the a similar looking Tarmac coach built by TMML Lucknow is being used by ground handling agency "Celebi NAS" which is built on LPO 1618 platform.

[Ashley2]

Originally Posted by gschandra

Can some one explain why 245hp engine is required for an airport tarmac coach covering short distances at a very low speed?



Even I don't find any requirement of high torque as it never needs to over come a gradient with over load or so.



Considering engine driven compressor for A/C and air suspension requirements also, i suppose 180hp engine would be sufficient for this job.

The problem is due to very low volumes of these coaches are standardised with regular city buses. TML was having as less as 160 hp for RESLF models with slave engines for AC. Only for ULE there was 245 hp cummins engine and now the engine options are getting standardised.
AL did have 180hp for their BS3 tarmac coaches- engine driven AC, and now even they are migrated to 225hp for both BS3 and BS4 versions for the reason the 180 hp chassis is phased out. But any way these coaches use less than 50% of reserve power as they are locked at 30kmph. I'm happy that at least we have dedicated low floor buses unlike standard floor buses untitled few years back.

[madhuperiasamy]

Hello friends.
A long due update which we have timed with our second anniversary. All three vehicles are performing good. The only niggle is the service back up and spare parts availability in Tamil Nadu.

Vehicle one has completed 2,31,000 km. No major issue had been encountered with the engine or drive train. The gear box has however required replacement of a few parts. An alternate float gear box was provided by Tata motors luckily as the spare part required for the replacement had to be ordered and arrived after a delay of about a week. The float gear box had a slightly different ratio (direct drive) than the original OD box. It wasn't of much use on the Coimbatore - Pollachi mofussil sector. There wasn't any great difference in the fuel consumption and the drivers did complain of excessive engine strain to maintain higher speeds which was expected with the lower ratio gear box. Fuel consumption on this densely trafficked sector varies about 15% between weekdays and Sunday.

Ashok Leyland owners on the same sector report lesser fuel consumption however no hard data is available for verification. Driver feedback points to comparable fuel consumption between Tata and Ashok Leyland but the fact that the AL's have a heavier duty engine with an output of 160 bhp must be kept in mind.
The vehicle has also been fit with a customised DVR system with live mobile preview which allows recording of the vehicle progress and simultaneous live monitoring when required.



Vehicle 2&3

Vehicle 2 - 1,80,000 km
Vehicle 3 - 2,10,000 km

The performance of these two vehicles has been below expectations mainly due to the lack of a strong service support structure from Tata. The presence of Mr Deepak Santhanam and Mr Syed Babu (CSR - TATA) has made a big difference to the ownership experience. Without them the experience of running the vehicles would have been a torrid one.

Two service centers in Karur , VST Motors Karur and Rajalakshmi Auto (TASS) are plagued by in-coordination and lack of spare parts. For example as of 23.08.2014 VST Motors Karur did not have an air filter and Rajalakshmi Auto is still awaiting the arrival of brake shoes ordered a week ago. That's the state of Tata Motors spare parts supply in Tamil Nadu presently. Any spare part has to ordered from the main stockist VST Motors Chennai and if lucky you will get it by a week. If unlucky and VST Chennai does not have it then you have to off-road the vehicle and start praying that it arrives by 2 weeks. And if you don't have a spare vehicle to stand in for the off roaded vehicle then you can start counting your losses.

Another interesting occurrence with regard to the Karur vehicles is the breakage of the anti roll cross bar bracket in both vehicles ( picture attached). Are these components not strong enough for rural operations on semi paved roads. Tata needs to look into the issue.

The brake shoes have not arrived at the service centres at Karur as of today (28.08.14).

This problem of spares availability seems to be compounded by the Annual Maintenance Contract ( Sampoorna Seva) offered by Tata Motors. The scheme is rife with red tapism and works like a government office. (I think we need to start a separate thread regarding this). It has its advantages too, however the lack of spares availability magnifies the disadvantages.


On the whole Tata have a great vehicle which has however been let down by a poor service backup. If this is the state of affairs that is going to continue in future then I think the CV division to will be following the fate of the passenger vehicles division at least as far as Tamil Nadu is concerned.

[v1kram]

Originally Posted by madhuperiasamy

On the whole Tata have a great vehicle which has however been let down by a poor service backup. If this is the state of affairs that is going to continue in future then I think the CV division to will be following the fate of the passenger vehicles division at least as far as Tamil Nadu is concerned.

It is to be noted that due to the said reason, many of the operators those who had opted for BS3 TATA (135HP) instead of BS3 AL (160HP) have switched back to AL in less than 2 years due to poor service back-up and parts availability. Hope TML would revamp it's CV dealership as they did for Passenger vehicle dealership.