A basic query on ice setup

maverickzCar · 12th May 2010, 18:54

Am not very sure if Mods will approve having multiple threads for the same ICE doubts, but somehow, cant control the urge.

The question is very basic (maybe thats why it didnt catch attn of gurus).

Currently I just have the speakers - JL audio C2-650 and C2-650x with following power ratings:

C2-650x Co-axial (rear):
Continuous Power Handling: 60 Watts
Rec. Power Range (per channel): 15 - 100 Watts
System Efficiency: 91.0 dB @ 1W/1m
System Nominal Impedance: 4 ohms
System Frequency Response: 59 Hz - 22 KHz ± 3 d

C2-650 Component (front)
Continuous Power Handling: 60 Watts
Rec. Power Range (per channel): 15 - 100 Watts
System Efficiency: 91.0 dB @ 1W/1m
97.0 dB @ 1W/0.5m
System Nominal Impedance: 4 ohms
System Frequency Response: 59 Hz - 22 KHz ± 3 dB

Due to budget overshooting, am thinking of not adding a sub right now. Thus planning to play the above speakers at their full potential.

Hence,

>> Will someone pls tell if adding a 4 ch amp just make these speakers loud, or add to the overall richness of the sound?

>> And is there a way that an average amp (~7-8k), when added to these speakers with above mentioned power ratings, then the setup be able to compensate the absence of a sub (to some extent, with proper tuning)? I cant cut the metal of my car to accommodate 6x9s hence thinking of any other cost-effective solution. I like being in mid of a fulfilling sound stage i.e. rear sound is as important as the front soundstage [I love the combo of Hertz comps and 6x9s in my swift due to this reason - both running w/o amp].

Thus in a gist,
- Will I be able to achieve this fulfilling sound with these speakers & an amp
- or i need more powerful co-axials (eg. Image dynamics) + an amp
- or a sub is a necessity

Thanks

stefanm · 12th May 2010, 19:43

If you install these nicely with an amp and some damping, this will give you a good place to start, you can add a sub and 2nd amp latter on. I'm not sure about the jl's you have, but my experience with jl's has always been good. If installed correctly, you may feel you don't require a sub for the time being, the key is in the installation, more so than the actual equipment.

Invinsible · 13th May 2010, 02:20

Haven mentioned this before somewhere. HU can give out output of 18 to 20RMS. The speakers that you are running can work fine as long as you are not pushing too high on the volume. One can notice that when speakers let's say with even 50RMS are connected to the HU without having the external amp, the speakers will start to distort once you push the volume on the HU. Add an external amp with 50RMS rating for each channel and the speakers will sound way cleaner than it would when powered with the HU. It's always best to match the power rating of speakers with the amp. Lot many complain that when they push the HU to hard the speakers don't sound that clear as compared to when played at lower or mid volume. Another factor is that it's the distortion that can damage the speaker on longer run. So, best is to add an external amp that matches with the speakers output in order to achieve the best possible result. You could also add damping in order to cut the resonance which will reduce the peaks and dips in frequency which would result in much smoother sound.

navin · 13th May 2010, 06:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by maverickzCar

>> Will someone pls tell if adding a 4 ch amp just make these speakers loud, or add to the overall richness of the sound?

1. Most HUs dont out out more than 10W rms / ch cleanly. They as Invinsble suggests can dump 15-20W rms but by this time THD is already intolerable.

2. A amplifier with a much larger power suppler than the small amp inside a HU can dump more current into a load. Hence it can control the motion of the speaker a lot better.

So, after you add an amplifier, your speaker will not play any deeper in the bass, but it will play a bit louder and the bass will be better defined.

maverickzCar · 15th May 2010, 00:48

Thanks guys for quick responses. I will see if my speakers do better with an amp like kenwood 845, or will have to contend that i made some hasty decisions while purchasing stuff in states.

Btw, Is Kenwood 845 sufficient for these speakers (& probably a sub in future), or can i get something better in its price range?

thelord · 15th May 2010, 01:08

@maverickzCar
Those speakers will definitely sound better with an amp. Having used the Kenwood M845 myself, I can say it's a good amp. Provides 60W RMS at 4ohms per channel. Should be available for around 5k in grey.

Other recommendations in the same budget are amps by JBL (S644) and Blaupunkt (GTA MkII).

12th May 2010, 18:54	#1
maverickzCar BHPian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Noida Posts: 59 Thanked: 3 Times	A basic query on ice setup Am not very sure if Mods will approve having multiple threads for the same ICE doubts, but somehow, cant control the urge. The question is very basic (maybe thats why it didnt catch attn of gurus). Currently I just have the speakers - JL audio C2-650 and C2-650x with following power ratings: C2-650x Co-axial (rear): Continuous Power Handling: 60 Watts Rec. Power Range (per channel): 15 - 100 Watts System Efficiency: 91.0 dB @ 1W/1m System Nominal Impedance: 4 ohms System Frequency Response: 59 Hz - 22 KHz ± 3 d C2-650 Component (front) Continuous Power Handling: 60 Watts Rec. Power Range (per channel): 15 - 100 Watts System Efficiency: 91.0 dB @ 1W/1m 97.0 dB @ 1W/0.5m System Nominal Impedance: 4 ohms System Frequency Response: 59 Hz - 22 KHz ± 3 dB Due to budget overshooting, am thinking of not adding a sub right now. Thus planning to play the above speakers at their full potential. Hence, >> Will someone pls tell if adding a 4 ch amp just make these speakers loud, or add to the overall richness of the sound? >> And is there a way that an average amp (~7-8k), when added to these speakers with above mentioned power ratings, then the setup be able to compensate the absence of a sub (to some extent, with proper tuning)? I cant cut the metal of my car to accommodate 6x9s hence thinking of any other cost-effective solution. I like being in mid of a fulfilling sound stage i.e. rear sound is as important as the front soundstage [I love the combo of Hertz comps and 6x9s in my swift due to this reason - both running w/o amp]. Thus in a gist, - Will I be able to achieve this fulfilling sound with these speakers & an amp - or i need more powerful co-axials (eg. Image dynamics) + an amp - or a sub is a necessity Thanks
	() Thanks

12th May 2010, 19:43	#2
stefanm BANNED Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Usa Posts: 212 Thanked: 2 Times	If you install these nicely with an amp and some damping, this will give you a good place to start, you can add a sub and 2nd amp latter on. I'm not sure about the jl's you have, but my experience with jl's has always been good. If installed correctly, you may feel you don't require a sub for the time being, the key is in the installation, more so than the actual equipment.
	() Thanks

13th May 2010, 02:20	#3
Invinsible Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Bombay Posts: 1,257 Thanked: 62 Times	Haven mentioned this before somewhere. HU can give out output of 18 to 20RMS. The speakers that you are running can work fine as long as you are not pushing too high on the volume. One can notice that when speakers let's say with even 50RMS are connected to the HU without having the external amp, the speakers will start to distort once you push the volume on the HU. Add an external amp with 50RMS rating for each channel and the speakers will sound way cleaner than it would when powered with the HU. It's always best to match the power rating of speakers with the amp. Lot many complain that when they push the HU to hard the speakers don't sound that clear as compared to when played at lower or mid volume. Another factor is that it's the distortion that can damage the speaker on longer run. So, best is to add an external amp that matches with the speakers output in order to achieve the best possible result. You could also add damping in order to cut the resonance which will reduce the peaks and dips in frequency which would result in much smoother sound.
	() Thanks

15th May 2010, 00:48	#5
maverickzCar BHPian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Noida Posts: 59 Thanked: 3 Times	Thanks guys for quick responses. I will see if my speakers do better with an amp like kenwood 845, or will have to contend that i made some hasty decisions while purchasing stuff in states. Btw, Is Kenwood 845 sufficient for these speakers (& probably a sub in future), or can i get something better in its price range? Last edited by maverickzCar : 15th May 2010 at 00:54.
	() Thanks

15th May 2010, 01:08	#6
thelord BHPian Join Date: May 2009 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 278 Thanked: 5 Times	@maverickzCar Those speakers will definitely sound better with an amp. Having used the Kenwood M845 myself, I can say it's a good amp. Provides 60W RMS at 4ohms per channel. Should be available for around 5k in grey. Other recommendations in the same budget are amps by JBL (S644) and Blaupunkt (GTA MkII).
	() Thanks