Help & Advise for my Fusion ICE

deepfusion · 1st January 2010, 16:25

I am driving fusion+, in which I have a pioneer Head Unit 4150, speakers-front JBL components and rear stock (Ford) installed. The speakers are installed in the doors.

Front components are powered by a two channel Alpine Amplifier. Blaupunkt sub (sealed) 12" is also powered in bridged mode to the amplifier. The rear speakers are powered by the Head Unit.

The stocks work well till the time output is increased to level 30, but from that level on, the sound gets distorted.

Please suggest if and how can I correct this flaw.

I have a 6X9" JBL GTO 937 lying idle with me.

Would installing these 937s help?

Would the head unit be able to take the pressure of 937s, and what would be the effect on sound quality on installing 937s.

If the 937s are installed, should these be installed in the doors (the doors can hold speakers of size 5X7").

I do not want to get the existing amplifier changed.

navin · 1st January 2010, 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by deepfusion

Front components are powered by a two channel Alpine Amplifier. Blaupunkt sub (sealed) 12" is also powered in bridged mode to the amplifier.

the stocks work well till the time output is increased to level 30, but from that level on, the sound gets distorted.Please suggest if and how can I correct this flaw.

I have a 6X9" JBL GTO 937 lying idle with me.Would the head unit be able to take the pressure of 937s, and what would be the effect on sound quality on installing 937s.

If the 937s are installed, should these be installed in the doors (the doors can hold speakers of size 5X7").

I do not want to get the existing amplifier changed.

1. I do not suggest using a single 2 channel amp to power 2 front components as well as a subwoofer.

2. the stock speakers are distoring becuase tehy cannot handle the bass. You can put 2 470uf caps back to back in series with these speakers. you will need 4 470uf caps and some solder.

3. The 937 wont fit in the doors.

valhallen.282 · 2nd January 2010, 07:33

The safest thing to do is use your amp to either power fronts or the sub. Using the power for the sub makes better sense.
The 6x9's would have to go on the parcel tray.

panky12345 · 3rd January 2010, 12:12

is the alpine genuine or "desi"?

deepfusion · 4th January 2010, 10:24

The amp is original.

Can the head unit take the load of the 937s?

panky12345 · 4th January 2010, 11:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by deepfusion

1. The amp is original.

2. Can the head unit take the load of the 937s?

1. Please provide the model no. / link.

2. Yes.

deepfusion · 5th January 2010, 11:37

I am sorry, forgot to mention the model no. for the amp.

The dealer told me it was 502.

But he also told me that the head unit wont be able to take the load of the 937s, and so I should switch to a 4 or 6 channel amp.

If I have to get the amp changed, which one should I go for.

Should it be a chinese, as are very popular in Delhi, or should it be a branded one.

My car accessory dealer recommended to try a chinese one.

DerAlte · 5th January 2010, 13:07

It is not necessary for the 6x9s to be driven by an amp, Chinese or otherwise. Your head unit can comfortably drive the 6x9s, as long as you don't try to use them as a public address system!

Putting the sub AND the front coaxes on the same 2-ch amp is not a good idea. The obvious limitation is the power that the amp can generate to power both at higher volumes, and - as you have already experienced it - you get distorted sound, if not a tripped or toasted amp. If you really want the sub in there, feed the components from the HU and just the sub from the amp.

If you are dissatisfied with the LOUDness level your system can reach without distorting, abandon all ideas of economizing - you just need to use more amp channels.

deepfusion · 5th January 2010, 18:08

I have just read the manual of the head unit which says:

Continuous power output: 22WX4 (50Hz to 15000Hz, 5% THD, 4 Ohm load, both channels driven).

It also says that the maximum power output is 50WX4 (50WX2/4Ohms+70WX1/2 Ohms (for Subwoofer)

What would the outcome be if I connect the sub to the HU and the components to the amp, with the stocks in the rear with 470 uF caps in series fixed to them, as suggested.

DerAlte · 5th January 2010, 18:49

The power supplied by the HU to the sub will only tickle the sub and not make any significant bass. Don't go by the MaxPower rating - that is the power that the HU will very reluctantly give to the load under some demand circumstances (loud passage of music with volume control set high), and will make some horrible noises while doing so!

deepfusion · 8th January 2010, 10:41

Hi.

I was wondering on the outcome of a port being carved out in the box of the sub.

It is blaupunkt Gtb 1200 mkII.

Would porting increase the bass or would just kill it.

My feeling is, it would deteriorate the bass.

DerAlte · 8th January 2010, 16:50

That box is designed as a sealed enclosure. Putting a port will have unpredictable results, since the box dimensions for a ported box corresponding to the driver might be different. One has to check with the T-S parameters of the sub.

Can't say whether the result would be better or worse, but it might sound slightly louder with with the bass notes lasting longer and sounding resonant.

deepfusion · 11th January 2010, 15:28

With the discussions/suggestions, I feel that the only way out for a better sound quality in fusion, I should go in for a 4 channel amp.

But tell me, as to whether the new 4 channel amplifier should be installed in addition to the existing 2 channel amp, or whether only a 4 channel would be sufficient.

Also, what wiring changes would have to be made to the existing setup.

DerAlte · 12th January 2010, 10:17

Go step by step:
1. First, shift the components to the HU (sub only on your 2ch amp bridged). Also, get a pair of 6x9 in the rear on to the HU. Tune this system and see how far it takes you. You might be dissatisfied with how loud you want the system to sound

2. If dissatisfied with the loudness, put a 4ch to drive the fronts and rears

3. The existing wiring will serve the sub and 2ch. The 4ch will require some additional wiring

deepfusion · 12th January 2010, 13:11

But the ratings for the components (GTO 507C) are 55W RMS and for the 6X9 (GTO 0937) are 100 W RMS.

1st January 2010, 16:25	#1
deepfusion BHPian Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Gurgaon,N.Delhi Posts: 525 Thanked: 250 Times	Help & Advise for my Fusion ICE I am driving fusion+, in which I have a pioneer Head Unit 4150, speakers-front JBL components and rear stock (Ford) installed. The speakers are installed in the doors. Front components are powered by a two channel Alpine Amplifier. Blaupunkt sub (sealed) 12" is also powered in bridged mode to the amplifier. The rear speakers are powered by the Head Unit. The stocks work well till the time output is increased to level 30, but from that level on, the sound gets distorted. Please suggest if and how can I correct this flaw. I have a 6X9" JBL GTO 937 lying idle with me. Would installing these 937s help? Would the head unit be able to take the pressure of 937s, and what would be the effect on sound quality on installing 937s. If the 937s are installed, should these be installed in the doors (the doors can hold speakers of size 5X7"). I do not want to get the existing amplifier changed.
	() Thanks

2nd January 2010, 07:33	#3
valhallen.282 BHPian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 331 Thanked: 196 Times	The safest thing to do is use your amp to either power fronts or the sub. Using the power for the sub makes better sense. The 6x9's would have to go on the parcel tray.
	() Thanks

3rd January 2010, 12:12	#4
panky12345 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: New Delhi Posts: 2,697 Thanked: 171 Times	is the alpine genuine or "desi"?
	() Thanks

4th January 2010, 10:24	#5
deepfusion BHPian Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Gurgaon,N.Delhi Posts: 525 Thanked: 250 Times	The amp is original. Can the head unit take the load of the 937s?
	() Thanks

5th January 2010, 11:37	#7
deepfusion BHPian Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Gurgaon,N.Delhi Posts: 525 Thanked: 250 Times	I am sorry, forgot to mention the model no. for the amp. The dealer told me it was 502. But he also told me that the head unit wont be able to take the load of the 937s, and so I should switch to a 4 or 6 channel amp. If I have to get the amp changed, which one should I go for. Should it be a chinese, as are very popular in Delhi, or should it be a branded one. My car accessory dealer recommended to try a chinese one.
	() Thanks

5th January 2010, 13:07	#8
DerAlte Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 8,069 Thanked: 2,919 Times	It is not necessary for the 6x9s to be driven by an amp, Chinese or otherwise. Your head unit can comfortably drive the 6x9s, as long as you don't try to use them as a public address system! Putting the sub AND the front coaxes on the same 2-ch amp is not a good idea. The obvious limitation is the power that the amp can generate to power both at higher volumes, and - as you have already experienced it - you get distorted sound, if not a tripped or toasted amp. If you really want the sub in there, feed the components from the HU and just the sub from the amp. If you are dissatisfied with the LOUDness level your system can reach without distorting, abandon all ideas of economizing - you just need to use more amp channels.
	() Thanks

5th January 2010, 18:08	#9
deepfusion BHPian Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Gurgaon,N.Delhi Posts: 525 Thanked: 250 Times	I have just read the manual of the head unit which says: Continuous power output: 22WX4 (50Hz to 15000Hz, 5% THD, 4 Ohm load, both channels driven). It also says that the maximum power output is 50WX4 (50WX2/4Ohms+70WX1/2 Ohms (for Subwoofer) What would the outcome be if I connect the sub to the HU and the components to the amp, with the stocks in the rear with 470 uF caps in series fixed to them, as suggested.
	() Thanks

5th January 2010, 18:49	#10
DerAlte Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 8,069 Thanked: 2,919 Times	The power supplied by the HU to the sub will only tickle the sub and not make any significant bass. Don't go by the MaxPower rating - that is the power that the HU will very reluctantly give to the load under some demand circumstances (loud passage of music with volume control set high), and will make some horrible noises while doing so!
	() Thanks

8th January 2010, 10:41	#11
deepfusion BHPian Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Gurgaon,N.Delhi Posts: 525 Thanked: 250 Times	Hi. I was wondering on the outcome of a port being carved out in the box of the sub. It is blaupunkt Gtb 1200 mkII. Would porting increase the bass or would just kill it. My feeling is, it would deteriorate the bass.
	() Thanks

8th January 2010, 16:50	#12
DerAlte Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 8,069 Thanked: 2,919 Times	That box is designed as a sealed enclosure. Putting a port will have unpredictable results, since the box dimensions for a ported box corresponding to the driver might be different. One has to check with the T-S parameters of the sub. Can't say whether the result would be better or worse, but it might sound slightly louder with with the bass notes lasting longer and sounding resonant.
	() Thanks

11th January 2010, 15:28	#13
deepfusion BHPian Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Gurgaon,N.Delhi Posts: 525 Thanked: 250 Times	With the discussions/suggestions, I feel that the only way out for a better sound quality in fusion, I should go in for a 4 channel amp. But tell me, as to whether the new 4 channel amplifier should be installed in addition to the existing 2 channel amp, or whether only a 4 channel would be sufficient. Also, what wiring changes would have to be made to the existing setup.
	() Thanks

12th January 2010, 10:17	#14
DerAlte Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 8,069 Thanked: 2,919 Times	Go step by step: 1. First, shift the components to the HU (sub only on your 2ch amp bridged). Also, get a pair of 6x9 in the rear on to the HU. Tune this system and see how far it takes you. You might be dissatisfied with how loud you want the system to sound 2. If dissatisfied with the loudness, put a 4ch to drive the fronts and rears 3. The existing wiring will serve the sub and 2ch. The 4ch will require some additional wiring
	() Thanks

12th January 2010, 13:11	#15
deepfusion BHPian Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Gurgaon,N.Delhi Posts: 525 Thanked: 250 Times	But the ratings for the components (GTO 507C) are 55W RMS and for the 6X9 (GTO 0937) are 100 W RMS.
	() Thanks