[Technocrat]

Guys Yesterday I happene to sit in a friends Safari(very old model) I noticed that the bass in front was quite good considering there were no subs, no high end wiring or anything just a plain Pioneer cassette player with CD changer.

I noticed then that the Safari had 6X9s in front door & probably that was the reason for a nice bass upfront.

Now I was just wondering(I know it would silly but I still will ask this ) If I connect a 6X9 speaker to the mid bass connection points on the XO(of my EL 4.1 comps) will it work? I mean that would be better than a 6 inch mid bass.

Please let me know even if it sounds Stupid

[anupmathur]

It will certainly work and almost certainly do a better job than the six inchers.

[Bass&Trouble]

Originally Posted by Technocrat

Now I was just wondering(I know it would silly but I still will ask this ) If I connect a 6X9 speaker to the mid bass connection points on the XO(of my EL 4.1 comps) will it work? I mean that would be better than a 6 inch mid bass.

Please let me know even if it sounds Stupid

The tweeters of the 6x9 will receive very less information. But yes, you will get good bass. I dont see how you can fit this in the front of an Alto though. Also, if you are going to install it in the rear, there is no need to wire it through the crossover. Whatever you do, dont wire both the 4" and the 6x9 drivers in parallel on the woofer outputs of the Electra or any other crossover.

[navin]

Originally Posted by anupmathur

OK, thanks. Now it is clear.
The ideal system would be 19981 drivers, one for each frequency from 20Hz to 20,000 Hz.

Originally Posted by anupmathur

Thankyou, Navin!
Most enlightening, as always.

actually too many ways is actually not very good.

If you implement even a 10 way crossover for example you will notice that the crossover elements from one band pass section affect the function of those from another section. so you will solving one problem but creating a biggger one. for crossover elements to have negligile effects on each other the crossover frequncies should be about 1 decade apart hence each driver in a speaker shold be linear over atleast one decade.

now 1st order electrical XOs do not suffer from this malady but if you use a 20000 way 1st order XO your speaker will suffer from loss due to lobing interference.

[Technocrat]

Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble

The tweeters of the 6x9 will receive very less information. But yes, you will get good bass. I dont see how you can fit this in the front of an Alto though. Also, if you are going to install it in the rear, there is no need to wire it through the crossover. Whatever you do, dont wire both the 4" and the 6x9 drivers in parallel on the woofer outputs of the Electra or any other crossover.

Ajay this was more of an academic question. no way will I wire both 4 inch driver & 6x9, my imagination wasn't this wild

Now that you have talked about Alto, what if I place the 6X9's below driver seat? but then the distance would increase between the tweets & speakers. Hmm what is the max distance possible between tweeters & mid bass without affecting staging?

[anupmathur]

Originally Posted by navin

actually too many ways is actually not very good.

.........

now 1st order electrical XOs do not suffer from this malady but if you use a 20000 way 1st order XO your speaker will suffer from loss due to lobing interference.

Gosh, Navin! You're too serious!

Originally Posted by Technocrat

Hmm what is the max distance possible between tweeters & mid bass without affecting staging?

Strictly speaking, none.

[Technocrat]

Thanks anup.

Are you sure about the distance thing, I have heard that it the mid bass & tweets should be as close as possible. If placing ovals below the seat with tweeter at a suitable position on dash\door works well I believe this would be a great setup for me

[anupmathur]

Originally Posted by Technocrat

Are you sure about the distance thing, I have heard that it the mid bass & tweets should be as close as possible. If placing ovals below the seat with tweeter at a suitable position on dash\door works well I believe this would be a great setup for me

That is why I said 'technically' or 'strictly speaking'.
The human brain has a remarkable ability 'to fill in the gaps'!!
Go ahead and try your arrangement, but give it at least a few days. You might well get used to it!

[Technocrat]

that sound encouraging

That brings me to the next Q, to be able to fit under driver seat the boxes will be really thin (may be as much as a door has depth or may be lesser) This again will have an impact on the bass right?

I have a sub so am not bothered about sub frequencies but just the mid ones.

[anupmathur]

Originally Posted by Technocrat

I have a sub so am not bothered about sub frequencies but just the mid ones.

The only little issue could be the direction the units face. Mid frequencies are very directional, and are essentially the ones that NEED to be reproduced most accurately, for maximum 'realism'.

[Technocrat]

Yes I am aware, anyways will do this experiment sometime soon & will update with whatever the outcome is

[anupmathur]

Originally Posted by Technocrat

Yes I am aware, anyways will do this experiment sometime soon & will update with whatever the outcome is

All the best!
Do keep updating.

[redfire]

Hi,
Please help me tune my system. I think I am lacking some mids, though overall, its fine and smooth. Since I hear a lot of music at home and have a better system than car, will never get satisfied with car . BTW following is my car and setup

Car - Swift
HU - Pio 4050UB
Front doors - JBL GTO607C comps (tweeters mounted at A pillar)
AMp for comps - JBL GT5A402
Rear doors - JBL GT5-652 coaxs (driven by HU)
Sub - Blau GTb1200 12" sealed box
Amp for sub - Blau PA275
Music taste - all geners (rock, pop, desi, etc)

Damping - not done, cables and wires - not of great quality.
The mods planned - damping with noisekill, get quality cables and wires. DIY installation

Following are the pics of amps controls. What tuning (gain, HPF/LPF, freq range, bass boost setting) do you recommend? I know the best is to DIY, trial and error and settle for what please my ears, but then there's a chance to get fooled by some highs and lows and lacking some other elements. I am seeking the arm-chair advice one can give by seeing the following case (I am a die-hard Sherlock Holmes fan), I mean I need to know the theory and theoritical limits for each setting and will play with in that range. Hope after damping and better cabling, the quality will be increased. Now amps are placed under seats. when I redo the installation, do you recommend to move them to boot (on the back of rear seat)?
Amps in order 1)blau PA275 for sub, 2)JBL GT5A402 for comps
Any pointers for setting the HU?

[mohang_j]

Originally Posted by navin

actually 3-4 ways are adequate.

Navinji, I have gto506 components, can i make an active crossover with band pass between 100Hz to 5kHz for the woofer and high pass from 5kHz+ for tweeters, want to avoid woofer playing kHz+ music.
(brought components from Manson but he has misplaced one of the crossovers and the crossover just has one 3.3mfd capacitor and an inductor - don't know the value need to check.Now i have to make passive or active crossover my own.)

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by redfire

Hi, Please help me tune my system. I think I am lacking some mids, though overall, its fine and smooth. ...

(I assume the sub phase has already been set appropriately so that it is blending in with the mid-bass in front)
1. On the Blau PA275 amp
- Set Crossover Mode to LP, Low Pass Frequency to 80Hz (approx.), Bass Boost to OFF
- Set Gain to minimum to start with (not sure if it is the 6V end, but then you can figure out which end if it starts playing too loud)
2. On the JBL GT5-A402 amp
- Set Crossover Mode to HP, Frequency to 80Hz (again, approx.), Bass Boost to OFF
- Set Gain to minimum to start with (in this case it is the 6V end - left extreme)
3. On the HU, set everything related to Tone control to flat (no boost, no cut, EQ set to FLAT, not Pop / Rock / etc.). Set volume at a level that you recognize by experience is a decent normal level (don't change it during the tuning process). Play a known CD
4. Gradually increase gain on the JBL GT5-A402 (turn pot clockwise) till you reach the desired volume level (don't worry that sub is not playing at this time)
5. Gradually increase gain on the Blau PA275 (not sure whether this is CW or CCW, anyhow away from minimum) till you can just feel the sub cutting in
6. Play different CDs and check whether the response is what you like. Increase the gain on the Blau PA275 slightly if you need more bass. Just ensure that the sub bass does not overpower the mids.
7. Now increase/decrease the volume at the HU to see if bass & mids sound proportionate. Switch to FM to check if the settings are OK (in many HUs FM plays slightly louder than other sources at the same volume setting)

Then sit back and enjoy the music - forget about lows, mids and highs!