Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q!

navin · 10th August 2005, 18:53

did not mean to just wanted to put all the options in front of you.
the best way is to find someting that will give you a line out from the ipod (not the headphone out) and connect that to your aux input
alternatingly there are FM modulators available for the ipod and you will then need to tune one of your FM channels to the ipod
sony should have an standard connector out (see crutchfield.com). did you not read the link in post #401?

paharino1 · 10th August 2005, 21:56

Siena 1.6 ELX - Need Advice
My car came with a Company fitted Kenwood KRC 389 - Cassette player with 6 Speakers ( 2 tweeters, 2 in front doors & 2 ovals in the rear).... 1yr on...looking for the following changes
1. MP3 CD Player
2. Tube Sub woofer
3. Amp..

What is recommended...?? Should i keep my existing set of 6 speakers & just add the tube sub + amp or a complete makeover ?
Budget is 12-15k..( maxxxxx)..

Options/advise most welcome..

cheers

navin · 11th August 2005, 10:10

deepak,
A good MP3 head unit will cost you about 7-8K. The Sony (forget model number) is supposed ot be good.
That leaves about 7-8K. You can get a passive sub for about 4K and sony 4 channel amp for about 4K. this will strech your budget a bit.

if you decide to go this way you can do one of 2 things.
1. connect 2 channels of the amp to the sub (bridged) and connect to channels of the amp to the 4 speakers but in doing so you loose the ability to fade between the front and rear.

2. connect 2 channels to the sub and 2 channels to the rear speakers and use the HU's amp on the front speakers. In doing this you rear speakers will be much louder than the front which affects the image in the front and becomes really loud for the rear passengers.

if you deicde to connect 2 channels to the sub and 2 channels to the front speakers (using the HU for the rear speakers) you will find a strange disconnect between the bass and the mids. However by tweaking the fader and volume control you may find a satisfactory setting albeit limited to a small range on the volume control.

so as you see it all options are a compromise. you should try the last options first and see if you can find a good setting. if not you have to choose between losing your fader or having the sound come from the rear.

If i had 15K and this option this is what i would do (I am not normal).
Upgrande the HU to the Sony 56xxx that everyone is talking about.
get a 4 channel power amp for 4K. sony 504.
get a passive sub for 4K preferably one with 6-8 ohms impedance (very rare). or get a good 8-10" home woofer for 2.5K and built a box for 1.5K. Peerless makes a good 10". Bolton a good 8". See what you can lay your hands on.

now connect 2 channels in the power amp to the front speakers.
connect the remaining 2 channels of power amp to the rear speakers. Now very carefully connect the passive sub across the + terminals of the rear 2 channels of the sub. this would put a mono signal in the sub.

very very carefully turn up the volume and see if the amp trips. many amps cant handle this and i dont know if the sony 504 can.

This last option will retain the fader and will pump the bass from the rear. I would set the levels on the amp so as to ensure that the rear channels do not clip. They will be more stressed as they will running a sub as well as the rear speakers.

Sam Kapasi · 11th August 2005, 12:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by navin

Sam, you AWOL?

Back to Mumbai for a week. Home Sweet home

Quote:

Originally Posted by navin

now connect 2 channels in the power amp to the front speakers.
connect the remaining 2 channels of power amp to the rear speakers. Now very carefully connect the passive sub across the + terminals of the rear 2 channels of the sub. this would put a mono signal in the sub.

very very carefully turn up the volume and see if the amp trips. many amps cant handle this and i dont know if the sony 504 can.

No it cannot handle it Navin.

navin · 11th August 2005, 12:25

sad why dont they build them like they used to.

Sam Kapasi · 11th August 2005, 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by navin

sad why dont they build them like they used to.

Navin yaar, see the price of this amplifier. They used to not build amplifiers at this price earlier.

Sam Kapasi · 11th August 2005, 13:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by ntomer

My Sony 7710 accepts Aux input. I was wondering whether I will be able to connect my iPod with it. I don't want the pod interface on my music system, only wants to play my play-lists thru my car system.

\N

Ntomer,
what Navin is saying isnt wrong, but dont get scared. It will sound pretty decent. I say go for it Ive seen it, I've heard it and it's not as good as the cd sound, but it's FUN! and CHEAP!

pingmepal · 11th August 2005, 15:02

Hi guys,

I am about to buy Petra ELX model and it comes with prewired for 6 speakers as per sepcifications. Dealer is trying to sell me NIPPON music system, which he says 'it is nothing but Kenwood and it is bought by nippon or vice versa'. Decided to do some research and buy system from out side and get it installed. During negotitaions, i got a deal that fixing will be done by FIAT whatever system I buy from out side.

Second day call comes from the sales guy saying that this car is pre wired and it has socket system to get hooked up. Only kenwood and blaupunkt systems can be easily hooked up;

other models may give problem fitting it, touching the exisitng pre-wiring. Another line also worried me was " if you get it done from out side, warranty is void" :(

Question : "Is it true that these kind of socket based systems will allow only certain type of systems?" In that case, am I limited to certain systems (yukky !!).

Other petra ELX owners, please help me for additional suggestions.

Please throw some light

thanks in advance

Sam Kapasi · 11th August 2005, 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by pingmepal

Hi guys,

I am about to buy Petra ELX model and it comes with prewired for 6 speakers as per sepcifications. Dealer is trying to sell me NIPPON music system, which he says 'it is nothing but Kenwood and it is bought by nippon or vice versa'. Decided to do some research and buy system from out side and get it installed. During negotitaions, i got a deal that fixing will be done by FIAT whatever system I buy from out side.

Second day call comes from the sales guy saying that this car is pre wired and it has socket system to get hooked up. Only kenwood and blaupunkt systems can be easily hooked up;

other models may give problem fitting it, touching the exisitng pre-wiring. Another line also worried me was " if you get it done from out side, warranty is void" :(

Question : "Is it true that these kind of socket based systems will allow only certain type of systems?" In that case, am I limited to certain systems (yukky !!).

Other petra ELX owners, please help me for additional suggestions.

Please throw some light

thanks in advance

hey Ping!

Lets sort out whatever we can. Nippon is not kenwood. Nippon Audiotronix is the distributor of Kenwood in India and they also distribute their own brand, a cheaper brand called Nippon. Thats the only relation between Nippon and Kenwood.

Certain cars do come with a pre-wired socket. Let me assure you that the sockets for Kenwood & Blaupunkt are poles apart and the only way the petra will accomodate both is by having 2 independent sockets. In most probability, both Kenwood and Blaupunkt have harnesses that will fit directly into the petra. (In my expereience there will be no NEW wiring harness for the petra, it will be the same as the palio/new siena)

This brings me to the harness point. Many people fit systems into their car without a clip direct harness. What happens and why do you hear that the warranty expires. Mind you, I'm not advocating that you cut the wires, just explaining what the fuss is all about.

Most modern cars have a fairly complicated electronics section. Fairly complicated means that there may be failures. Remember, if an engine part fails, or the suspension breaks down, nobody is going to take the deck out and declare your warranty null and void.
However, lets assume that the control chip fails within warranty. No company will want to replace the control chip free of charge with a smile, since it costs 20,000 to 25,000/-. So THEN they will tell you that since you cut the original wires to fit the deck, your ELECTRICAL warranty is void. At that point, if you are able to take the deck out and show the original wiring harness unaltered, you're safe. Otherwise you will have to pay that amount.

aseem · 11th August 2005, 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi

Back to Mumbai for a week. Home Sweet home

No it cannot handle it Navin.

Hi sam, which budget amp can handle 4 speakers and a fader??? is it better to go for a 4 channel amp for the speakers and a 2 channel amp for the woofer... that will mean around 6.5k... is there a 4 channel amp in 6-7k range that can handle 4 speakers and a bass tube?

Sam Kapasi · 11th August 2005, 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by aseem

Hi sam, which budget amp can handle 4 speakers and a fader??? is it better to go for a 4 channel amp for the speakers and a 2 channel amp for the woofer... that will mean around 6.5k... is there a 4 channel amp in 6-7k range that can handle 4 speakers and a bass tube?

Most budget amps can handle 4 speakers on one pair of channels and a subwoofer on the other channel. If i was to connect it, I'd do it that way.
However if the fader control is important, then yes, you would need a 6ch amp, or a 2ch+4ch amp.

Back in New Delhi Fusseem?

aseem · 11th August 2005, 17:14

Still in Bangalore Ma'am... I mean Sam. So you have got me confused now. You say most 4 channel amps can handle 4 speakers and a bass tube... however in your previous posts you told Navin that the Sony 4 channel amp for 4 k wont be able to handle 4 speakers and a woofer??? Options???

Sam Kapasi · 11th August 2005, 17:19

Navin suggested a different method of connection, called the tri-bridge mode. On the front channel Navin suggested you put only the front speakers and on the rear, the rear speakers. However, after the rear speakers are conncted in stereo, you add the woofer to the same rear channel in BRIDGED mode. That is a heavy load for a cheap amplifier.

aseem · 11th August 2005, 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi

Navin suggested a different method of connection, called the tri-bridge mode. On the front channel Navin suggested you put only the front speakers and on the rear, the rear speakers. However, after the rear speakers are conncted in stereo, you add the woofer to the same rear channel in BRIDGED mode. That is a heavy load for a cheap amplifier.

Waam, Bam, Thank you Ma'am.... I mean Sam

Sam Kapasi · 11th August 2005, 18:20

Aseem finds the tweeter on the GTO606Ce a little bright. This is mainly because of the crossover of the 606Ce.
Here's a simple way to tone down the harshness and maintain the sweetness on the tweeter.

Replace capacitor C2 (3.7MFD/100V Bipolar) with a 2.2MFD/100V Bipolar. Add a 4.7 ohm 10W resistor in series with this capacitor. This will fit nicely inside the crossover box.
Are you able to do this Aseem?

If you want to know how this will help Navin will explain

(SAVED!!)

10th August 2005, 18:53	#406
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,496 Thanked: 9,893 Times	did not mean to just wanted to put all the options in front of you. the best way is to find someting that will give you a line out from the ipod (not the headphone out) and connect that to your aux input alternatingly there are FM modulators available for the ipod and you will then need to tune one of your FM channels to the ipod sony should have an standard connector out (see crutchfield.com). did you not read the link in post #401?
	() Thanks

10th August 2005, 21:56	#407
paharino1 BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Hyderabad, India Posts: 299 Thanked: 30 Times	Siena 1.6 ELX - Need Advice My car came with a Company fitted Kenwood KRC 389 - Cassette player with 6 Speakers ( 2 tweeters, 2 in front doors & 2 ovals in the rear).... 1yr on...looking for the following changes 1. MP3 CD Player 2. Tube Sub woofer 3. Amp.. What is recommended...?? Should i keep my existing set of 6 speakers & just add the tube sub + amp or a complete makeover ? Budget is 12-15k..( maxxxxx).. Options/advise most welcome.. cheers
	() Thanks

11th August 2005, 10:10	#408
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,496 Thanked: 9,893 Times	deepak, A good MP3 head unit will cost you about 7-8K. The Sony (forget model number) is supposed ot be good. That leaves about 7-8K. You can get a passive sub for about 4K and sony 4 channel amp for about 4K. this will strech your budget a bit. if you decide to go this way you can do one of 2 things. 1. connect 2 channels of the amp to the sub (bridged) and connect to channels of the amp to the 4 speakers but in doing so you loose the ability to fade between the front and rear. 2. connect 2 channels to the sub and 2 channels to the rear speakers and use the HU's amp on the front speakers. In doing this you rear speakers will be much louder than the front which affects the image in the front and becomes really loud for the rear passengers. if you deicde to connect 2 channels to the sub and 2 channels to the front speakers (using the HU for the rear speakers) you will find a strange disconnect between the bass and the mids. However by tweaking the fader and volume control you may find a satisfactory setting albeit limited to a small range on the volume control. so as you see it all options are a compromise. you should try the last options first and see if you can find a good setting. if not you have to choose between losing your fader or having the sound come from the rear. If i had 15K and this option this is what i would do (I am not normal). Upgrande the HU to the Sony 56xxx that everyone is talking about. get a 4 channel power amp for 4K. sony 504. get a passive sub for 4K preferably one with 6-8 ohms impedance (very rare). or get a good 8-10" home woofer for 2.5K and built a box for 1.5K. Peerless makes a good 10". Bolton a good 8". See what you can lay your hands on. now connect 2 channels in the power amp to the front speakers. connect the remaining 2 channels of power amp to the rear speakers. Now very carefully connect the passive sub across the + terminals of the rear 2 channels of the sub. this would put a mono signal in the sub. very very carefully turn up the volume and see if the amp trips. many amps cant handle this and i dont know if the sony 504 can. This last option will retain the fader and will pump the bass from the rear. I would set the levels on the amp so as to ensure that the rear channels do not clip. They will be more stressed as they will running a sub as well as the rear speakers.
	() Thanks

11th August 2005, 12:25	#410
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,496 Thanked: 9,893 Times	sad why dont they build them like they used to.
	() Thanks

11th August 2005, 15:02	#413
pingmepal BHPian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 48 Thanked: 0 Times View My Garage	Pre-wired cars - socket method Hi guys, I am about to buy Petra ELX model and it comes with prewired for 6 speakers as per sepcifications. Dealer is trying to sell me NIPPON music system, which he says 'it is nothing but Kenwood and it is bought by nippon or vice versa'. Decided to do some research and buy system from out side and get it installed. During negotitaions, i got a deal that fixing will be done by FIAT whatever system I buy from out side. Second day call comes from the sales guy saying that this car is pre wired and it has socket system to get hooked up. Only kenwood and blaupunkt systems can be easily hooked up; other models may give problem fitting it, touching the exisitng pre-wiring. Another line also worried me was " if you get it done from out side, warranty is void" :( Question : "Is it true that these kind of socket based systems will allow only certain type of systems?" In that case, am I limited to certain systems (yukky !!). Other petra ELX owners, please help me for additional suggestions. Please throw some light thanks in advance
	() Thanks

11th August 2005, 17:14	#417
aseem Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Delhi Posts: 1,730 Thanked: 442 Times	Still in Bangalore Ma'am... I mean Sam. So you have got me confused now. You say most 4 channel amps can handle 4 speakers and a bass tube... however in your previous posts you told Navin that the Sony 4 channel amp for 4 k wont be able to handle 4 speakers and a woofer??? Options???
	() Thanks

11th August 2005, 17:19	#418
Sam Kapasi Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mumbai (but wat Posts: 7,000 Thanked: 2,479 Times View My Garage	Navin suggested a different method of connection, called the tri-bridge mode. On the front channel Navin suggested you put only the front speakers and on the rear, the rear speakers. However, after the rear speakers are conncted in stereo, you add the woofer to the same rear channel in BRIDGED mode. That is a heavy load for a cheap amplifier.
	() Thanks

11th August 2005, 18:20	#420
Sam Kapasi Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mumbai (but wat Posts: 7,000 Thanked: 2,479 Times View My Garage	Sweetening the treble on GTO606Ce Aseem finds the tweeter on the GTO606Ce a little bright. This is mainly because of the crossover of the 606Ce. Here's a simple way to tone down the harshness and maintain the sweetness on the tweeter. Replace capacitor C2 (3.7MFD/100V Bipolar) with a 2.2MFD/100V Bipolar. Add a 4.7 ohm 10W resistor in series with this capacitor. This will fit nicely inside the crossover box. Are you able to do this Aseem? If you want to know how this will help Navin will explain (SAVED!!)
	() Thanks