[lucksin]

Hi guys,

I recently upgraded the speakers in my Baleno along with 2-layer damping on all 4 doors, the SQ increased 1000 times compared to what stock however it still seems to miss the completeness of sound.

As for comparison, I have Tiago EV XZ+ which has an awesome system(Harman), I love getting stuck in traffic in Tiago vs my Baleno. The sound is just so much complete even though it lacks the vocals.

I was considering putting a sub to complete the fullness of sound, but I am confused between an Underseat Subwoofer and a Spare wheel(Stepney) subwoofer. I don't want any Box in the boot how much sleeker or smaller it is.

My current system is:

- Stock head unit
- Polk MM6501 front (Component) - Love the vocals of Polk.
- GroundZero coaxial-forgot the model - Just a Filler and I think an Ok One
- All 4 doors damped with 2-layer CTK silver - This really woke up my setup

It needs no rattling booming sound. Just looking at SQ to complete the fullness of sound.

Not able to demo either even in Karol Bagh when I was there last Sunday and hence pretty confused between the two.

Looking forward to hearing from anyone who has witnessed both and what are your thoughts.

Best

[IshaanIan]

What you need is a class a/b 4channel amplifier. That will “unlock” the sound you are looking for. The speakers you have installed will sing like you have never heard them before once you’ve got an amp rigged up. I am saying this because it is clear to me that you want a fuller sound and not just more bass per se. The speakers you have installed can kick out good bass if powered by a nice amp so you’d rather do that first than mess about with underseat or spare wheel subs.

[lucksin]

Thanks Ishaan,

I 100% agree, however, I also don't want to cheap out on the amp when I Do it. I also don't want to put a puny 60-80 watt/channel amp to these speakers. I want to start at least with 100-120 watt/channel; those don't come cheap.

I also believe a 6.5 woofer in a door can only do so much compared to maybe a sub. Both these options(under seat/spare wheel) are pretty cheap for the impact compared to a good amp/wire/DSP to start with.

at the moment I want to test out the sub route and save for a better amp/dsp at a later date, and after amp'g the speakers, if all goes as you and me vision, the sub will go one to one of my other cars which is bare bone stock

so coming back to the question bro, out of the two subwoofer categories which one can give me an expansive sound and complete the circle for me

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by lucksin

I also believe a 6.5 woofer in a door can only do so much compared to maybe a sub.

True, but it’s all about the enclosure when it comes to a subwoofer and you’ve already stated that you aren’t interested in a large vented sub box in your boot. And don’t go chasing specs and power ratings. A 75watt/channel a/b amp can do wonders if set up right and they hardly cost 15k see if you can have your mid bass speakers mounted on custom mdf rings and they will project some good clean sound if hooked up to a well chosen amp.

Originally Posted by lucksin

so coming back to the question bro, out of the two subwoofer categories which one can give me an expansive sound and complete the circle for me

Neither. Both an underseat sub and one mounted in the spare tyre are only going to give you feel but no expansive sound as such.

[greenhorn]

Personally, for an entry level setup, i feel lucksin is on the right path.
My vote goes to underseat subs ; i used to have a full sized sub in my boot, and it used to give headaches to all the womenfolk in the family because they were getting most of the impact compared to me in the driver seat.
With an underseat sub mounted under the driver seat,the bass is delivered directly to me first.
I do miss the impact and power, but I've become a fan now.

So my opinion is that underseat works best if the sound for the driver is a priority. Wheel well works if it's the passengers who need good sound.

Please don't buy blind unless you can return it. Under seat space is often an issue. Also driver size. My blaupunkt 10" has better bass than my more expensive Sony 8"

[frankmehta]

IMHO, both, underseat and sparewheel subs are garbage. i have tried both, and I feel it's not worth the wild goose chase.
Please arrange for a sealed 1cu ft enclosure in the boot, and even an average 5000 rupee 12inch subwoofer will dance circles around these expensive contraptions that are all show, and less go.

As Ishan said, don't run after nos. If you ever fed ACTUAL 120w of constant RMS power to a car speaker of the ilk you speak of, you risk damaging it. (so it's a sign not to run after nos.)


Start with a basic JBL sealed subwoofer. Get a powered one if you have the budget. You will not regret it.

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by greenhorn

i used to have a full sized sub in my boot, and it used to give headaches to all the womenfolk in the family because they were getting most of the impact compared to me in the driver seat.

The enclosure makes the most difference and each subwoofer is designed to run optimally with a certain sized enclosure getting boomy bass is very easy but when the enclosure is done right you won’t even know you have a 12inch beast of a woofer in the back of your car unless you’re playing some insane dubstep.

[greenhorn]

My sub was a 12 inch alpine in an enclosure built by emperor, who is pretty reputed even today.
There is even photo proof of Mr Z designing it here
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/car-e...-kenwoods.html (Hertz Indicab Gets a double dose of alpine in the kenwoods)

It sounded perfect to me. It sounds fine today in my bedroom system. But at the back of my car the bass was too much, especially with the fader set up with a front bias.

I'm not saying it was bad. It was removed because post family life I needed the boot space very badly and space saving options were the only options.

[Rohit_Quad]

I too was in a similar boat 8 years ago and bought a 8" Blaupunkt 'Active Subwoofer' box (similar to an under-seat subwoofer) for my Fiesta. I had to place it in the boot and hence it was almost non existent at low volumes and the door speakers would take over/ over power at medium to high volumes. Maybe a good under-seat subwoofer might be a good compromise, but cannot comment as I never used them.
But I would suggest, get a sealed subwoofer + mono amplifier combo. Something like this for an amplifier - 'Sony Car Amplifier XM-GS100 330W Mono Class D Amplifier' or 'JBL StageA3001 Mono-Compact Footprint Amplifier'. I have replaced that active subwoofer with in 2 weeks, and have been using a Sony Mono Amplifier with 12 Inch JBL sealed type sub-woofer setup, till date with out any issues. Absolutely tight bass and no booming effect. I used to have a single din, top of the line JVC unit. After 10 years, the volume nob started acting up, hence replaced it with a Pioneer dual din, non touch head unit. Both of them had subwoofer out, with in built subwoofer controls. Since your stock head unit would not have a subwoofer out, I would say, get a Mono Amplifier for better tuning of the subwoofer output. Also, I believe a factory sealed Subwoofer (example 'Sony Car Subwoofer XS-NW1202S') is a safe bet, as the manufacturer would have tuned the enclosure according to the subwoofer. In such a setup, you can decrease the bass (in the EQ) in the stock head unit, reducing the low end going to your in-door speakers and adjust the bass level for the subwoofer. The total Mono amplifier + subwoofer + wiring, etc should come upto roughly 22K + installation. You can install a plug near your subwoofer, making it a quick release when ever you need boot space. (For some reason, Amazon URL's are not getting trimmed/ formatted even after using the 'insert URL' function, hence pasted the product names form Amazon).

[AjayJoshuaN]

If your options are underseat subwoofer vs spare wheel subwoofer, then I would definitely go for an underseat subwoofer or multiple underseat subwoofers, because

1. the bass distribution would be more even with an underseat subwoofer

Usually subwoofers in the boot area will sound unpleasantly louder for rear passengers compared to the front passengers.

With two underseat subwoofers, the bass will be even more powerful and can be better optimised by fine tuning either EQ settings or cut over frequency.

Avoid going for larger drivers in smaller underseat subwoofer boxes. A smaller driver in a larger box will be more efficient (the explanation for this is another big topic )

If possible, try to bring down unwanted frequencies using an EQ which will make the sound far better

[lucksin]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

A 75watt/channel a/b amp can do wonders if set up right and they hardly cost 15k

Could you recommend one? Since I will be certainly be amping all 4 speakers. I was looking at SoundDigital EVOS 800.4. although it is a class D but its a very respected amp. I am open to suggestions for A/B

Originally Posted by greenhorn

Please don't buy blind unless you can return it. Under seat space is often an issue. Also driver size. My blaupunkt 10" has better bass than my more expensive Sony 8"

Blaupunkt is one of the options for sure however, I am not at all inclined towards Sony. Cerwin Vega is another and Apine being the last.

Originally Posted by frankmehta

IMHO, both, underseat and sparewheel subs are garbage. i have tried both, and I feel it's not worth the wild goose chase.

I still belive it can add more value since I can not have a box in the boot. and there is no other options other than underseat or sparewheel.

Originally Posted by frankmehta

Please arrange for a sealed 1cu ft enclosure in the boot, and even an average 5000 rupee 12inch subwoofer will dance circles around these expensive contraptions that are all show, and less go.

Howsoever I have loved to have this, I just cant. I have to live with this for now.

Originally Posted by frankmehta

As Ishan said, don't run after nos. If you ever fed ACTUAL 120w of constant RMS power to a car speaker of the ilk you speak of, you risk damaging it. (so it's a sign not to run after nos.)

Polk MM6501 can take 125 watt all daylong. They are rated for 125watt RMS continues and I totally belive they can.

Originally Posted by greenhorn

I'm not saying it was bad. It was removed because post family life I needed the boot space very badly and space saving options were the only options.

Story of my life bro!

Originally Posted by Rohit_Quad

But I would suggest, get a sealed subwoofer + mono amplifier combo. Something like this for an amplifier - 'Sony Car Amplifier XM-GS100 330W Mono Class D Amplifier' or 'JBL StageA3001 Mono-Compact Footprint Amplifier'.

I would say, get a Mono Amplifier for better tuning of the subwoofer output. Also, I believe a factory sealed Subwoofer (example 'Sony Car Subwoofer XS-NW1202S') is a safe bet, as the manufacturer would have tuned the enclosure according to the subwoofer. In such a setup, you can decrease the bass (in the EQ) in the stock head unit, reducing the low end going to your in-door speakers and adjust the bass level for the subwoofer. The total Mono amplifier + subwoofer + wiring, etc should come upto roughly 22K + installation.

Money isn't an issue as long as I myself is satisfied with the investment. Unfortunately that boat has sailed for me to put a box in the boot. We as a family need to use the boot space almost every day and hence even a smaller box has to be ruled out.

Originally Posted by AjayJoshuaN

If your options are underseat subwoofer vs spare wheel subwoofer, then I would definitely go for an underseat subwoofer or multiple underseat subwoofers, because

1. the bass distribution would be more even with an underseat subwoofer

Usually subwoofers in the boot area will sound unpleasantly louder for rear passengers compared to the front passengers.

With two under seat subwoofers, the bass will be even more powerful and can be better optimized by fine-tuning either EQ settings or cut-over frequency.

That's certainly an option to put 2 under seat and below are the options:

1. Cerwin Vega VPAS10

1. Alpine PWE S800

1. Blapunkt XLF 10A

As for the spare wheel sub, there is only one for which I have only heard all the good words. In fact, many people outside India, replace their OEM sub from spare wheel to this.

• JBL BassPro Hub

Most of the OEM abroad have a basic subwoofer setup in a sparewheel as well and Bose is one of the OEM providers which does such setup at factory. hence the reason for me tilting towards the BassPro Hub.

I am more confused then ever. I will certainly add an amp this weekend as Ishan suggested, but I will also take a plunge on either of them and hence I just need to know a known devil to work with between the two options.

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by lucksin

Could you recommend one? Since I will be certainly be amping all 4 speakers. I was looking at SoundDigital EVOS 800.4. although it is a class D but it’s a very respected amp. I am open to suggestions for A/B

It has been over a decade since I was in the market for this stuff and back then I got a Ground Zero 4ch amp for under 10k. I am not sure what their distribution scene is now but having later on played with a Kenwood Excelon series class D amp hooked up to Audison Voce speakers I can tell you that you must skip class D and go for class A/B only because the sound is much more detailed and clear. Go for a class a/b amp from any reputable brand be it JBL or Morel or Pioneer or even Sony within budget and you won’t be disappointed. I saw a 4channel Morel amp for 19k online I’m sure things might be cheaper in store.

[lucksin]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

It has been over a decade since I was in the market for this stuff and back then I got a Ground Zero 4ch amp for under 10k. I am not sure what their distribution scene is now but having later on played with a Kenwood Excelon series class D amp hooked up to Audison Voce speakers I can tell you that you must skip class D and go for class A/B only because the sound is much more detailed and clear. Go for a class a/b amp from any reputable brand be it JBL or Morel or Pioneer or even Sony within budget and you won’t be disappointed. I saw a 4channel Morel amp for 19k online I’m sure things might be cheaper in store.

I have shortlisted below 3 Class AB Amp:

- Infinity Alpha 2804A - 70x4
- Blaupunkt 4 Channel Class AB - 85x4 | 120x4 (2Ohms)
- XM-N1004 - 70x4

There is also Morel MPS 4.400, however its the costliest of the lot with same output as Infinity, not sure how much of a difference it will make compared to Infinity or Blaupunkt.

I am more inclined towards Blaupunkt since it can give more power to my components (2.7 ohms). If I do not get Balupinkt, I will get Infinity One. Sony may not be. I am not much of a Sony fan of audio.

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by lucksin

I am more inclined towards Blaupunkt since it can give more power to my components (2.7 ohms). If I do not get Balupinkt, I will get Infinity One. Sony may not be. I am not much of a Sony fan of audio.

Although I do not have any personal experience with these specific amps, I have sampled stuff from all the brands and I would say go for the Infinity amp if it comes under your budget as it is a subsidiary of JBL and one can never go wrong with the Harman sound signature. Morel I hear gives a warm sound but not sure if that sound signature extends to their amps as well. Blaupunkt is I believe being marketed and sold by a Chinese company that has bought the rights to using the name just like Nakamichi. So if you’re willing to go for the Blaupunkt then check out Nakamichi options as well since they have only recently started pushing stuff with the old Nakamichi name (original company is defunct) so they could be more competitively priced to gain a foot in the market.

[lucksin]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

Although I do not have any personal experience with these specific amps, I have sampled stuff from all the brands and I would say go for the Infinity amp if it comes under your budget as it is a subsidiary of JBL and one can never go wrong with the Harman sound signature. Morel I hear gives a warm sound but not sure if that sound signature extends to their amps as well. Blaupunkt is I believe being marketed and sold by a Chinese company that has bought the rights to using the name just like Nakamichi. So if you’re willing to go for the Blaupunkt then check out Nakamichi options as well since they have only recently started pushing stuff with the old Nakamichi name (original company is defunct) so they could be more competitively priced to gain a foot in the market.

Here's a little update from over the weekend:

Have been with my system installer both days, and picked up and installed below components:

- DSP - Nakamichi NDSK4265AU - 4 ch In/6 ch Out - 31 band EQ
- JBL Concert A704 class AB amp - 70watt/Ch out
- OFC amplifier installation kit 8 Gauge
- OFC speaker wire 14Gauge
- some more damping in door panels
- complete rewiring of speaker cables - picked at infotainment till DSP - Amp - speakers in all 4 doors.

I was also able to audition below sub-woofer:

- JBL Bass pro hub
- JBL BassPro SL2
- Blaupunkt XLF 10A(few seconds, the unit went into protect mode)

Of the lot JBL BassPro Hub is more entertaining. although the bass was loose it was very close to having a full sub in the box in boot. could easily rattle the whole car.

JBL BassPro SL2- crapiest of the lot, sounds like a hollow tin can. we did a lot with DSP but couldn't make this one sound good.

Blaupunkt, I am due to do the audition this week, the wiring is kept for quick install and demo. The person who was configuring was confident blaupunkt is better of the lot and can fill those missing frequencies and blend well with the system. However, I am getting more inclined towards basspro hub. I can take a shot to configure this with DSP.

This is the first time I have ever looked at the DSP and I belive I will learn over the few month to configure the DSP. Not aware if there is any professional who can tune using an RTA in Delhi/NCR. If anyone knows I would be more than happy to pay them a visit.

few pics from the installation: