[gaurav9991]

Hi guys,

I have got my first car XUV300(W8-O Diesel) 1.5 months back and want to upgrade the sound system. I have been researching car audio for the last 2 months and reached a point where I'm stuck and need your guidance, hence starting this thread. I request everyone who knows about car audio to contribute with the suggestions/information.

Note: I am neither an expert nor experienced in car audio. So feel free to correct me in case I'm mistaken.

Budget: Within Rs. 2L

Current setup: Stock HU drives 6 speakers(2 tweeters on front doors + 4 speakers on doors) with average sound quality. How much average? -> Tweeters are playing bass frequencies so looks like there are no crossovers in place.

In case you want to checkout XUV300 photos to get an idea, here's the link (Mahindra XUV300 : Official Review)

Requirements:

I want to retain stock HU, get a DSP to drive 3 way active front-stage. Since rear seats would be unoccupied 90% of the time, I'm not planning to add any rear door speakers. If anyone here has an opinion that rear speakers are a must then I would love to hear the reason. I have read those rear speakers if not tuned properly can easily mess up the front stage and if rear speakers are indeed needed then they should be used just for rear fill and must be driven in mono, not in stereo. Are rear speakers really needed in my case? In that case, I would have to consider them in the mentioned budget.

I'm looking for pure sound quality with adequate bass. I want tight and accurate bass and not the one where glasses and mirrors start vibrating. Looks like I have to go for a sealed sub. The boot space of XUV300 is just 257L and I don't want to compromise boot space for a large sub box. In fact, I'm considering an under-seat active sub. Will an under-seat sub make justice to the system? If not then I'll have to go for shallow enclosure sub.

Tuning: Adding a DSP won't add magic if not tuned correctly. Even if the input audio source is super clean and speakers/amps/wiring is top-notch, the listening experience might not be great due to various factors. It could be the speaker's position, it could be the way speakers sound, it could be opposite speakers canceling each other at certain frequencies. The best way to tune the system would require an RTA microphone and a skilled person who is good at tuning. Since SQ is subjective and I may not be able to tell if the entire system is performing at its best or not just by listening, I want to see the RTA showing a nice flat reading.

Here are the components I have shortlisted, please suggest if there are any better alternatives within my budget.

1. Helix DSP.3 (8 Channel output)
2. Front 3 way speakers: Focal FLAX EVO PS 165F3E (available at 71.5k on motorogue.in)
3. Helix M SIX amp (45k MRP) for front speakers. (How about class AB amp for Tweeters and midrange and class D for the rest of the speakers?)
4. Rear speaker - if really needed
4. Subwoofer - active/passive not yet decided
5. Damping, wiring, custom A-pillar pods, tuning

Thanks a lot for reading this lengthy summary. I have tried to include as many details as I could. Please suggest components for my setup. Let me know what prices to expect because MRPs and actual selling prices vary a lot.

And the most important thing - Please suggest a good installer + DSP tuner preferably in Pune otherwise in Mumbai.

[Safari_Beast]

Originally Posted by gaurav9991

Hi guys,

I have got my first car XUV300(W8-O Diesel) 1.5 months back and want to upgrade the sound system. I have been researching car audio for the last 2 months and reached a point where I'm stuck and need your guidance, hence starting this thread. I request everyone who knows about car audio to contribute with the suggestions/information.

Hello Gaurav

Any reason why Headunit need to be retained , headunit can be easily replaced in xuv300 to pioneer / alpine and it will make a hell lot of difference. Also you can contact Sound Factor Pro in Mumbai , owner name is Ramnik Singh Matharoo which has done great install in high end cars as well.

So i would still urge you to swap the headunit , also these days phablets like headunit are in the market via alpine ,pioneer. OEM headunits don't give clean signal and output as xuv300 can accommodate after market headunit so better get it replaced.

[GTO]

Would also recommend getting in touch with Ajay Kamath from Sounds Good (93204 47654).

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by gaurav9991

I want to retain stock HU, get a DSP to drive a 3-way active front-stage.

Please change the HU as that would be the weakest link in the whole system. If the source is not 'clean'' no point in adding expensive equipment down the sound chain IMHO.

Originally Posted by gaurav9991

I'm looking for pure sound quality with adequate bass. I want tight and accurate bass and not the one where glasses and mirrors start vibrating. Looks like I have to go for a sealed sub. The boot space of XUV300 is just 257L and I don't want to compromise boot space for a large sub box. In fact, I'm considering an under-seat active sub. Will an under-seat sub make justice to the system? If not then I'll have to go for shallow enclosure sub.

For space-saving needs, get a 10" single subwoofer in a sealed box configuration for tight and accurate bass reproduction. An under-seat subwoofer will never do justice in an SQ setup.

HU: Sony XAV-AX8000 or Pioneer DMH-Z5290BT(~30K)

DSP: Helix DSP.3 - Good choice.

Front Speakers: Focal FLAX EVO PS 165F3E - Never heard them but should be great if tuned correctly.

Amplifier: Helix M SIX amp - Good amplifier, should help the system sound better. The other option is Zapco ST-6X SQ (Class AB) amplifier would do great in terms of SQ too.

Rear speaker: Since the rear seats aren't occupied, suggest leaving this option for now.

Subwoofer: As suggested get a 10" subwoofer in a sealed enclosure with a monoblock. Audible Physics Avatar 10" subwoofer with Pioneer GM-D9701 mono amplifier.

Damping, wiring, custom A-pillar pods, tuning - Damp the 4 doors + boot lid. Do NOT compromise on the wiring part as it will make or break the system. Suggest a 4ga OFC power wiring kit and 16ga for speakers.

[prashantuchil]

Originally Posted by gaurav9991

Since rear seats would be unoccupied 90% of the time, I'm not planning to add any rear door speakers. If anyone here has an opinion that rear speakers are a must then I would love to hear the reason. I have read those rear speakers if not tuned properly can easily mess up the front stage and if rear speakers are indeed needed then they should be used just for rear fill and must be driven in mono, not in stereo. Are rear speakers really needed in my case? In that case, I would have to consider them in the mentioned budget.

Speaking by experience, when I mute the rear speakers (via DSP remote) I do feel that something is missing. Its better to have a good rear fill if not a high end one.

[viXit]

Originally Posted by gaurav9991

Hi guys,

I have got my first car XUV300(W8-O Diesel) 1.5 months back and want to upgrade the sound system.

Congratulations and welcome to the forum.

Note: I am neither an expert nor experienced in car audio. So feel free to correct me in case I'm mistaken.

Don't worry, we will

Tweeters are playing bass frequencies so looks like there are no crossovers in place.

How did you ascertain this?
each component is driven discretely from the head unit, hence it is crossed over well.

I want to retain stock HU,

Then a DSP is the way to go (thumbs up)

get a DSP to drive 3 way active front-stage

So you want a set of tweeters, mid bass( door speakers) and a subwoofer. correct?

Since rear seats would be unoccupied 90% of the time, I'm not planning to add any rear door speakers. If anyone here has an opinion that rear speakers are a must then I would love to hear the reason

I think the best way to know it is to drive without rear audio for a while, and then put it back on. Short answer : you need it but you don't know it yet.

Speaking from experience.

I have read those rear speakers if not tuned properly can easily mess up the front stage

Most definitely can, but you can't really tune much in a speaker and hence we opt for similar brand and class of speakers for front and back so that the tonality is constant between the two.

and if rear speakers are indeed needed then they should be used just for rear fill and must be driven in mono, not in stereo.

I've never heard this, by going mono, you lose surround effects that some songs have in them. You can't hear the instruments coming from different corners if you do mono. Where did you hear this?

I think you'll mess up your experience if you do this mono thing. And it's terribly difficult to go mono too haha.

Are rear speakers really needed in my case? In that case, I would have to consider them in the mentioned budget.

Drive with the fader completely forward for a few days. No cheating. Then put it back to centre. I thoroughly enjoyed rear fill after a month of driving with only front audio. It's really nice.

I'm looking for pure sound quality with adequate bass. I want tight and accurate bass and not the one where glasses and mirrors start vibrating.

Like many have said before, size is not all that matters, it's what you do with it. Subwoofers come in two pieces. The sub itself, and it's enclosure. A mismatch can make a potentially great subwoofer sound like trash, ask me.

Under seat subwoofers are small and come completely built from the manufacturer in one piece, perfectly mated to all the components it has. It's a good bet if you want to save yourself some headache.

Looks like I have to go for a sealed sub. The boot space of XUV300 is just 257L and I don't want to compromise boot space for a large sub box.

sealed sub, yes .
Unless you have a second car with good boot space for utility purposes, I wouldn't recommend ruining the already small boot capacity of the XUV 300.

A shallow sub can be good too. But please take a listen in a friend or BHPians car. Car audio shops don't readily demo speakers for customers as it can be tedious.

Tuning: Adding a DSP won't add magic if not tuned correctly. Even if the input audio source is super clean and speakers/amps/wiring is top-notch, the listening experience might not be great due to various factors.

Bang on, sir.

it could be opposite speakers canceling each other at certain frequencies.

There are polarity checkers for this very problem.
And certain methods to check even if you don't have the tools. don't worry about all this now.

The best way to tune the system would require an RTA microphone and a skilled person who is good at tuning. Since SQ is subjective and I may not be able to tell if the entire system is performing at its best or not just by listening, I want to see the RTA showing a nice flat reading.

By all means, go to someone only if they have proper tuning equipment. But a Flat oscilloscope reading doesn't always mean great audio. Everyone's tastes and ears are different. But a good way of judging sound reproduction is a flat RTA reading.

And the most important thing - Please suggest a good installer + DSP tuner preferably in Pune otherwise in Mumbai.

Many BHPians have their own audio stores in Mumbai, I think you're in luck.

I have not commented on any of the equipment choices because each and every one of the components except the damping and wiring will change the experience multifold. You have to spend a few weekends to listen with your own ears and decide. My only advice is to not hold any preconceived notions in your mind about speakers that you may hear online. Like polk is too bright or rainbows are too sharp. Let your ears decide.

All the best.

[navin]

Originally Posted by gaurav9991

Budget: Within Rs. 2L

Are rear speakers really needed in my case? In that case, I would have to consider them in the mentioned budget.

I'm looking for pure sound quality with adequate bass. The boot space of XUV300 is just 257L and I don't want to compromise boot space for a large sub box. In fact, I'm considering an under-seat active sub.

Tuning: Adding a DSP won't add magic if not tuned correctly. Since SQ is subjective and I may not be able to tell if the entire system is performing at its best or not just by listening, I want to see the RTA showing a nice flat reading.

Here are the components I have shortlisted, please suggest if there are any better alternatives within my budget.

1. Helix DSP.3 (8 Channel output)
2. Front 3-way speakers: Focal FLAX EVO PS 165F3E
3. Helix M SIX amp (45k MRP) for front speakers. (How about class AB amp for Tweeters and midrange and class D for the rest of the speakers?)
4. Rear speaker - if really needed
4. Subwoofer - active/passive not yet decided
5. Damping, wiring, custom A-pillar pods, tuning

And the most important thing - Please suggest a good installer + DSP tuner preferably in Pune otherwise in Mumbai.

Originally Posted by prashantuchil

Speaking by experience, when I mute the rear speakers (via DSP remote) I do feel that something is missing. It's better to have a good rear fill if not a high-end one.

I can empathize with the need to retain the stock HU and keep the stock look. I did the same.

An under-seat subwoofer cannot produce deep or tight bass. At best they can offer some mid-bass support for small systems. If you want deep and tight bass you will have to go for a boxed subwoofer. However, using a Speakon connector (from Neutrik) this box can be made easily removable if you are using the trunk for storage.

A rear-fill speaker does add some ambiance in a car. Remember in a car the front speakers are closer to the ear than in a home and there is less ambiance from reverberation as in a home. So a pair of Coax speakers in the rear door will help. If you do not have rear door options then a rear deck can work too.

Class D amps have come a long way but I agree with you, it might be safer (old school thinking) to use a Class AB amp for the midbass and tweeter and use the Class D amp only for the subwoofer.

I see you have chosen some good but expensive equipment. My advice would be to listen to the speakers and amplifiers before you spend your hard-earned money on them. Resale value on used electronics is terrible.

If you need more clarity, you should pick up the phone and message Ajay Kamath (Bass and Trouble) in Mumbai. He is a reasonable and honest option and has decades of experience in car, home, and pro audio.

Disclaimer: Ajay has fit the stereos in both my cars (as well as several of my older cars) as well as supplied audio equipment for my home (and the homes of my family members).