[noelravin]

High Powered Amplifiers, Sub-Woofers and Battery Drain

I've found that most audio installers have a standard method of installing external power amplifiers which is to draw a direct line from the car battery. This in turn also powers DSPs etc. Many cars having these additional accessories have problems with frequent battery draining and starting problems. There are two reasons why this might occur:

1. The system is used for long periods with the ignition on and engine switched off which causes the system to suck the battery dry without any simultaneous charging from the alternator.

2. A lot of car systems can now be operated even without the ignition key turned on. This causes the system to switch on every time a door is opened, or remote is operated because its all integrated into the screen. This send a power signal to the remote switch in the external amp that switches all the power draining accessories on until the timer turns them off. During such a time a DSP driven off a bluetooth will actually power the full system on.

Solution : Professional installers abroad install a battery isolator switch that only supplies power to the amplifier the moment the ignition is switched on; that means an independent trigger on the remote wire to the amplifier will not turn it on. For party users you can install a separate battery in the trunk of the car for the music system. The isolator will only draw power from that secondary battery while the car is parked and when the ignition is turned on the car starts on the primary battery at which time the isolator allows the secondary battery to charge. I strongly suggest this and advise your installer to consider this method.

[navin]

Originally Posted by noelravin

High Powered Amplifiers, Sub-Woofers and Battery Drain

I've found that most audio installers have a standard method of installing external power amplifiers which is to draw a direct line from the car battery. This in turn also powers DSPs etc. Many cars having these additional accessories have problems with frequent battery draining and starting problems. There are two reasons why this might occur:

1. The system is used for long periods with the ignition on and engine switched off which causes the system to suck the battery dry without any simultaneous charging from the alternator.

2. A lot of car systems can now be operated even without the ignition key turned on. This causes the system to switch on every time a door is opened, or remote is operated because its all integrated into the screen. This send a power signal to the remote switch in the external amp that switches all the power draining accessories on until the timer turns them off. During such a time a DSP driven off a bluetooth will actually power the full system on.

Solution : Professional installers abroad install a battery isolator switch that only supplies power to the amplifier the moment the ignition is switched on; that means an independent trigger on the remote wire to the amplifier will not turn it on.

For party users you can install a separate battery in the trunk of the car for the music system. The isolator will only draw power from that secondary battery while the car is parked and when the ignition is turned on the car starts on the primary battery at which time the isolator allows the secondary battery to charge. I strongly suggest this and advise your installer to consider this method.

High power systems do drain the car battery pretty quickly. My wife and I have a habit of only turning our aircon compressor and system on after we have turn on the ignition (the engine and alternator is active). We drive a Corolla and a Camry respectively. We have battery isolators (at least I am sure I have one in the Camry since I drive that regularly) that will prevent the amps from coming on (even if the head unit is on) if the ignition is not on.

People who install high power audio systems need to be advised by their installers that the systems should not be used if the engine is not on (much like using an airconditioner without running the engine). A little discipline is a much cheaper alternate to installing dual batteries and a dual battery isolator (so that one battery does not try to charge the other).

Another thing to note is that amplifiers all have different threshold votlage. This is the minimum DC voltage they need to operate. Some amps are happy with 11.5V DC, others need more (as much as 13.5V DC). This means that if your amps need a higher voltage to operate they are more sensitive to battery drain.

There is a wonderfully detailed thread about a "Disco in a Civic" penned by GTO on this forum that also discussed this phenomenon. The amps initially installed in GTO's Civic shut down below 13.8V DC and he found that his music would come and go as the amps turned themselves off, the battery got a chance to charge above 13.8V, then the amps would come on and the cycle would repeat. Switching to amps that required a lower battery voltage to operate solved this issue.

In short, high powered and audiophile car audio systems come with a set of unwritten warnings. They need more care and maintenance. Those that install them should be aware of this. There is no gain without some pain.

[Reinhard]

Originally Posted by navin

People who install high power audio systems need to be advised by their installers that the systems should not be used if the engine is not on (much like using an airconditioner without running the engine).

I was under the impression that most cars we get in mass market have the AC compressor isolated from the battery & it works only when the engine (and alternator) are running? I have not yet seen a reasonably priced car in our market that lets the compressor to work when engine is off? I'm suspecting I'm about to learn something / be surprised.

[navin]

Originally Posted by Reinhard

I was under the impression that most cars we get in mass market have the AC compressor isolated from the battery & it works only when the engine (and alternator) are running?

Many years ago my mother's chauffer killed the battery in my mother's 2007 Honda City by sitting in the car with the airconditioner on and engine off. I don't know if other cars are also similarly designed but the 2007 City had this flaw.

[Kannan]

Sorry to bring up the year-old thread.

I'm working on upgrading my audio installation for the Suzuki Ritz Diesel.
Following is the equipment list.

1. Pioneer DMH Z5290BT - Head Unit
2. JBL Stadium GTO600c - Component
3. GTO608C - Tweeters
4. JBL Stadium GTO620 - Coaxial
5. Pioneer GM-D8704 - 4 Channel amplifier
6. Pioneer GM-D8701 - Monoblock amplifier
7. JBL GT5-S1 - Subwoofer

I'm wondering if my car's alternator will be able to handle the power draw when the lights and AC are on?
Also is there a way to prevent the use of the ICE when the vehicle is given for service or when the Chauffeur is driving the car alone?

[straight6]

Originally Posted by Kannan

Sorry to bring up the year-old thread.

I'm working on upgrading my audio installation for the Suzuki Ritz Diesel.
Following is the equipment list.

1. Pioneer DMH Z5290BT - Head Unit
2. JBL Stadium GTO600c - Component
3. GTO608C - Tweeters
4. JBL Stadium GTO620 - Coaxial
5. Pioneer GM-D8704 - 4 Channel amplifier
6. Pioneer GM-D8701 - Monoblock amplifier
7. JBL GT5-S1 - Subwoofer

I'm wondering if my car's alternator will be able to handle the power draw when the lights and AC are on?
Also is there a way to prevent the use of the ICE when the vehicle is given for service or when the Chauffeur is driving the car alone?

Make sure your alternator and battery isn't on its way out and replace both if required. Its better than being stranded somewhere. Also avoid using the 100/90 or 130/100 bulbs.

When giving the car for service or to driver just unplug the rca cables from the amps.

[Kannan]

Originally Posted by straight6

When giving the car for service or to driver just unplug the rca cables from the amps.

I have requested a concealed switch installation that can be used for switching the HU on and off.

I use the regular 60/55w bulbs, so there is no additional load on the system other than the upcoming audio system installation.

[roby_dk]

So my new Thar's battery got drained while I was playing with DSP and RTA tuning. To my surprise the engine was on the whole time (around 2 hours). AC was switched on and off multiple times in between. Once I was done with the settings I switched off my car. After few minutes I cranked it again but it didn't start. Did a jump start and went to nearby battery shop where the mechanic said that gravity is very low.

I usually do similar stuff in Endeavour maybe for a lot more time than Thar but have never faced this issue. Planning to change/upgrade the battery in Thar but that will only give me some extra time before it drains. It seems the alternator is not able to charge the battery even when the engine is on.

Did anyone faced this issue? What can be the possible solution to this problem.

[batish]

Originally Posted by noelravin

Solution : Professional installers abroad install a battery isolator switch that only supplies power to the amplifier the moment the ignition is switched on; that means an independent trigger on the remote wire to the amplifier will not turn it on.

Can you please share any video link? How it works? How to install? I could not find much about it. Although there's lot of info regarding dual batteries and isolators.

Originally Posted by roby_dk

Planning to change/upgrade the battery in Thar but that will only give me some extra time before it drains. It seems the alternator is not able to charge the battery even when the engine is on.

Won't an upgradation cause other electrical problems? I don't think alternator would give up so early.

I think you should get back to your installer. He might have encountered this problem in other systems too, he might have the solution for it.

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by roby_dk

So my new Thar's battery got drained while I was playing with DSP and RTA tuning.

I usually do similar stuff in Endeavour maybe for a lot more time than Thar but have never faced this issue.
Did anyone faced this issue? What can be the possible solution to this problem.

Battery and Alternators will have higher capacities on the Endeavour for sure. Load being the same, it’s natural that the smaller battery could not take it.

Regarding charging of the battery when the engine was on, as with any other battery, if the current drawn is more than what’s being given by Alternator, it will discharge. If you plan to do this more often, perhaps, can get an external 12V/ high amperage power supply.

Planning to change/upgrade the battery in Thar but that will only give me some extra time before it drains.

You may have to upgrade the Alternator too as the stock one may not be enough to charge the higher amperage battery. It’s important to check this carefully as else you can damage the alternator.

[Kannan]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

if the current drawn is more than what’s being given by Alternator, it will discharge.

Silly question, when the engine is running and the alternator is providing power, can we assume that when the current drawn is higher, the battery will provide power? If the battery is going to provide power while the alternator is not able to charge the battery, won't the battery indicator shown below will light up?

With the new setup of an 4 channel amp and a monoblock, I'm worried will the alternator be able to handle it especially during night driving. The audio engineer mentioned that it won't be a problem since mine is not a high-end installation.

1. Pioneer DMH Z5290BT - Head Unit
2. Pioneer GM-D8704 - 4 Channel amplifier
3. Pioneer GM-D8701 - Monoblock amplifier
4. JBL Stadium GTO600c - Component x2
5. JBL S2-1224SS - Subwoofer

On a different note, in EV, almost every electrical system except the drive train is handled by the 12v or 24v battery. What would happen if we are supposed to add aftermarket amplifiers? Will that be impossible?

[condor]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Battery and Alternators will have higher capacities on the Endeavour for sure.

Sir ji, if you can help:

Storme with a 120Ah alternator
Battery is of higher capacity than stock (not the OE 85Ah)
ICE setup:
Class-D 5 channel Soundstream amp, Single-DIN HU, Tweeters only in front. An Infinity Reference 1200S sub in sealed einclosure.

If volume of music played is not high, How long can I safely run the ICE without running the engine.


**

Q2:
On a trip last week, the amp didnt seem to be working for sometime. (Audio was not the usual crisp, clear that I normally get. What could be the reason ? Things back to normal now, without any specific corrective action.

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by Kannan

If the battery is going to provide power won't the battery indicator shown below will light up?

Battery indicator comes up usually at the time of start or in certain cars when the engine is off but the ignition switch is on. This indication in itself does not mean that now current is being drawn from battery. In some cars, this may even come when the charging circuit is not working as intended. Both battery and alternator on the newer cars work as a parallel source. It’s only when all the current produced by alternator is consumed by the load, additional load is supported by battery but at this time, alternator can no longer charge the battery even though it’s connected and producing the electricity as it must have happened with the Thar being discussed.

I am little rusty with these things, so please do wait for comments from some experts

Originally Posted by condor

Storme with a 120Ah alternator
Battery is of higher capacity than stock (not the OE 85Ah)

Changing battery to higher amperage without checking output of alternator is probably not correct. There’s a reason why OE has kept the alternator output higher than battery. If your current battery is close to output of alternator output, you can damage the electronics in the alternator.

How long can I safely run the ICE without running the engine.

Can be calculated if you know the current being drawn by your load (ICE setup) plus anything additional running on the battery. Usually, most German cars have around 5 minutes of standby for such usage and you have to press the start/ stop button to keep the audio/ hvac (fan usually) working.

(Audio was not the usual crisp, clear that I normally get. What could be the reason ? Things back to normal now, without any specific corrective action

You can ignore this but if that happens again, I will start by checking all the connections again. Start with power cables/ fuse and then to RCA/ Speaker cables.

[roby_dk]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Battery and Alternators will have higher capacities on the Endeavour for sure.

Yes you are right. I discussed with fellow Endeavour owners, the alternator in 3.2 Endy is rated around 160-200A (Not verified) and we are assuming that Thar will be 60-80A (again not sure need to check with Mahindra guys for the exact value).

Regarding charging of the battery when the engine was on, as with any other battery, if the current drawn is more than what’s being given by Alternator, it will discharge.

Seems to be the case and this is what I am assuming that current drawn is more. Replaced the headlights as well recently and the DRL in light stays ON permanently, maybe that is also adding to the load.

If you plan to do this more often, perhaps, can get an external 12V/ high amperage power supply.

I am more concerned about any issues which might crop up with general usage i.e. listening to music while traveling. Planning to get the load checked at different rpms. One of my friend said the alternator provide variable current, at lower rpms the current will be less and it will increase as the rpms increases which is the use case when we generally drive the car. What I was doing was running engine at standstill at 800rpms.

[condor]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Changing battery to higher amperage without checking output of alternator is probably not correct.

Agree that there is a reason for the ratings. However, the battery should be 100Ah - still lower than the 120Ah alternator. A few of us are using this Alternator-Battery combo for sometime now, and no issues reported by anyone. The indicator window on the battery has also been the healthy green.