[anku94]

Thanks.

Originally Posted by DerAlte

The objective is to listen to music. If one nit-picks the numbers involved, one only spends money and never gets to enjoy it, or does not spend money and spends the time miserably.

Agree. I don't feel as I'm missing out on fun while dancing to my Samsung Guru 1410's music in the shower. Although trust me, the sound quality is BAD.

Back to technical aspects, then how does one determine the perfect gain settings ?

I would say that one should choose the lowest gains that give him a slightly more maximum volume than he'd prefer, unless there are serious audible compromises on the sound quality, in which case he'd have to compromise.

But on various places, I saw things like using oscilloscopes, test tones and voltmeters to determine good gain settings.

Err...wait a minute, what are good gain settings ? Isn't the objective to use the lowest gain settings that give you sufficient maximum volume ?

Thanks for answering.

[anku94]

Got it. A very good gain settings post by @frankmehta. All confusion cleared.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/ask-gu...ml#post1281727

[blackbeast]

NOOB ALERT !

Guys, There are hardly any posts in the last few years on this thread. Has everyone become a pro or the audio technology is not growing. Anyway, i do not want to know that. There is always a first time for everything. This is going to be my first indulgence into ICE. Here goes my questions

1. how do you define speakers to be bright and other characteristics like crisp,muddy etc ..

2. On basic HU, This is my preference as best i can describe. I put treble to 0 or max 2, bass 2 to 4. preset of Rock. I hate boomy bass. once i went to buy headfones and heard to dre beats and i didn't like them.Picked up klipsch image one at far less price and i liked them better. how would you answer on behalf of me in ICE terms if someone asks my preference.

3. What is tuner settings. some of friends wont let me touch because it has
Anwar's settings on them. In my opinion, on a properly installed setup with all settings(EQ) flat it should sound like how the music composer wants us to hear. Am i right ? or does the real world (as against studio) atmosphere forces us to change settings

4. When buying a subwoofer enclosure (sealed), is it necessary to get the same brand of the sub or any make will do , provided the dimensions are similar. Also custom made (by a good installer not best) or branded , which one is preferred. My understanding is that since its not a ported enclosure, custom made one is good enough as there is not much of calculation to do.

5. Audition before purchasing. Lets say i want to buy online/known cheaper places where audition wont be possible, how should i go and audition without buying anything. Or Its quite possible that not all shops will have all brands to choose from. how does a first timer go about it?

6. Do not ask me how, well.. with some research,reviews,suggestions and prejudice this is what i shortlisted . Give me your take on it.

HU : pioneer deh9500bhs (bought)
front comp : jbl JBL MS62c ( 13k )
amplifier : hertz he4 or jbl gto ( 7k)
sub : Infinity Kappa 120.9 8k
Mono and rear co axial speakers : No budget

what am most concerned is to have picked up one very good product and the other , a stupid one. Want to make sure they are in sync

cheers

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by blackbeast

... 1. how do you define speakers to be bright and other characteristics like crisp,muddy etc ...

Bright = excessive high frequencies. The epitome of bright, to anyone who has heard it, were the famous Pioneer TS20 tweeters that taxi-drivers would use. To anyone on the road, one could hear a raucous chilla-chilla sound.

Crisp = all details in the music are heard without any artificial enhancement / addition

Muddy = one is not able to make out individual instruments, and even the voice sounds like coming out of a 'matka' (earthen pot). Exactly the same sense as muddy water (not Muddy Waters, the great Blues exponent)!

Originally Posted by blackbeast

... 2. On basic HU, This is my preference as best i can describe. I put treble to 0 or max 2, bass 2 to 4. preset of Rock. ... how would you answer on behalf of me in ICE terms if someone asks my preference. ...

Put in good speakers, and disable all other controls! Dr.Dre headphones are meant for hip hop, hence enhanced boomy bass.

You preference is clear, crisp music - not muddy or boomy.

Originally Posted by blackbeast

... 3. What is tuner settings. some of friends wont let me touch because it has Anwar's settings on them. In my opinion, on a properly installed setup with all settings(EQ) flat it should sound like how the music composer wants us to hear. Am i right ? or does the real world (as against studio) atmosphere forces us to change settings ...

You are right - a good system should not require any artificial modification. But, one has to remember that all systems have compromises, usually due to material peculiarities and limitations. In such cases one has to tweak the system a little bit to get it to sound to one's taste. It is a laborious process, and one setting really doesn't work for all kinds of music. OTOH, "because it has Anwar's settings on them" is a wrong reasoning - settings should be to one's own choice, not to someone else's. Shirt sizes vary, shoe sizes vary - so do musical tastes, and there are very few rules.

Originally Posted by blackbeast

... 4. When buying a subwoofer enclosure (sealed), is it necessary to get the same brand of the sub or any make will do , provided the dimensions are similar. Also custom made (by a good installer not best) or branded , which one is preferred. My understanding is that since its not a ported enclosure, custom made one is good enough as there is not much of calculation to do. ...

No, any brand will do, as long as it is fast and punchy. Boomy subs are tiring to listen to, and can be irritating while driving. Sealed box is quite tolerant of dimensions, and there is no harm in using a slightly smaller box.

Originally Posted by blackbeast

... 5. Audition before purchasing. Lets say i want to buy online/known cheaper places where audition wont be possible, how should i go and audition without buying anything. Or Its quite possible that not all shops will have all brands to choose from. how does a first timer go about it? ...

Online sellers - at least in India - offer either popular models, or are selling what no one buys (that is why it is on sale at a lesser price). Though it can be daunting, a first timer just needs to go about it logically. Go around the market and ask for audition (the ones who refuse are not worth buying from). Come back and do price research on the ones that you like. If the online price is less than the shop price (all inclusive), buy it online and install it yourself (it is not difficult) or get it installed. Else, buy it at the shop where the price is the least.

Originally Posted by blackbeast

... 6. ...

HU : pioneer deh9500bhs (bought)
front comp : jbl JBL MS62c ( 13k )
amplifier : hertz he4 or jbl gto ( 7k)
sub : Infinity Kappa 120.9 8k
...

Check out some other components for front, maybe Infinity Kappa or Rainbow or DLS. Haven't heard MS62c, so not sure of sound signature or price. If you have heard them and like them, go ahead.

Ditto for the amp - maybe Kenwood or DLS. Buy anything that has a local A.S.S. in your town.

[greenhorn]

for folks who have always wondered about the terms we talk about.
https://www.goldenears.philips.com/en/challenge.html

a quick intro to the audiophile stuff. You get achievements too!

[wooka]

Quick question - in a coax, how does a silk tweeter driver trump a regular, say mica driver.

If the lining of the low frequency speaker is rubber coated cloth, how would this stack up against a pure rubber based membrane in terms of life and SQ at higher SPLs?

[blackbeast]

Originally Posted by DerAlte

You are right - a good system should not require any artificial modification. But, one has to remember that all systems have compromises, usually due to material peculiarities and limitations.

Thank you DerAlte, have procured most of the stuff. Here is my last query.
How do you differentiate a pro installer vs amateur wrt to acoustic effect ? I'm not talking about fit and finish or harm a roadside installer will do to the trim,door panels , car wiring. Am not talking tuning capabilities either. Lets assume all the gear including wiring kit is supplied by me. I want to know more on the lines of tweeter placement, woofer direction, understanding limitation of the set up etc..

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by wooka

Quick question - in a coax, how does a silk tweeter driver trump a regular, say mica driver. ...

Harder plastic domes are usually quite bright. Most impregnated silk dome tweeters sound neutral.

Originally Posted by wooka

If the lining of the low frequency speaker is rubber coated cloth, how would this stack up against a pure rubber based membrane in terms of life and SQ at higher SPLs?

I suppose you mean the surround of the mid-base and not the cone. Foam surrounds are known to degrade and crumble in about 4-5 years. Other materials don't - the rubber-impregnated cloth surround will last longer than that. Surrounds are never pure rubber - they are a either a mix or synthetic rubber like neoprene.

Originally Posted by blackbeast

... How do you differentiate a pro installer vs amateur wrt to acoustic effect ? ...

By their interaction with you. To explain the options to you - the good and the bad of it. It is, of course, left to you to differentiate between pseudo-babble / woo-woo and sense. That doesn't mean that installers who are not articulate are not good installers. Some of them do it by intuition and past experience. These are the ones who will listen to the system for a long time and make suitable changes.

Originally Posted by blackbeast

... I want to know more on the lines of tweeter placement, woofer direction, understanding limitation of the set up etc..

In any car, placement of drivers is only possible only in a couple of locations - so that makes things a bit easy.

* Front tweeters are best placed in the sail panel - the triangular area inside the ORVM (in some cars, the ORVM is mounted on the door outer panel, and the sail panel is glass). Alternatives are
- on the A-pillar - about 3" from the top of the dash
- on the door pad - near where the door pad meets the side of the top of the dash
The right tweeter should face the left head-rest, and the left one the right head-rest. In this arrangement, one is listening to it off-axis, and this reduces the 'brightness' considerably

* The location of choice for the mid-bass is the bottom left corner of the door - where there is enough depth available and the speaker magnet will not foul with the window glass mechanism. This is the OE location in most cars, since the car interior designers would have already reckoned with in design. The alternatives are:
- when there is no OE location in door, is the footwell area. This is never an OE location, so an experienced installer will do a custom mounting with MDF or fiber-glass
- A not-so-often used alternative is to make a fiber-glass 'box' to mount the speaker on the door pad from outside, especially if the door is too thin to accommodate a normal-depth speaker (there are a few shallow mount speakers)

[wooka]

Ah I see. I meant rubber surrounds, yes. Is there any pitfall with going with rubber surrounds against say, subbed coated cloth?

What about textile Tweeters? These should have middling performance as compared to silk dome and plastic?

Is there any practical method to alter harsh sounds from tweeter without messing around with the EQ much?

Thanks for your advice DerAlte!

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by wooka

... Is there any pitfall with going with rubber surrounds against say, subbed coated cloth? ...

Very few speakers come with rubber coated cloth (higher manufacturing cost). Default nowadays is solid synthetic rubber surrounds.

Originally Posted by wooka

... What about textile Tweeters? ...

When they say 'textile', they mean silk IIRC. Haven't heard of any other woven material being used.

Originally Posted by wooka

... Is there any practical method to alter harsh sounds from tweeter without messing around with the EQ much? ...

Covering the tweeter grill with a couple of layers of curtain cloth to attenuate the sound.

[Gannu_1]

Stumbled across this .pdf from Halfords which details the size of the speakers used for the front and rear for a variety of cars from different manufacturers in this format:



Link

Information seems to be fairly accurate. Could be used as a reference.