Major ICE Upgrade in my Palio (EDIT: Car upgraded.)

determinus · 17th April 2007, 13:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunbir

Determinus, If you read my post carefully, you will see I used a word "rarely" which may be mistaken for "never" but doesn't really mean that.

There are a few subs out there that can sound good with even an inch of one way linear Xmax. Good, but not great. I reserve "great" for the best experiences.

FYI I am running 2x 10" subs (double spider, paper cone, 8.5mm Xmax, 94dB) in my setup right now that kill almost anything out there in terms of speed, accuracy and tonality.

Hey, I was just pondering on a doubt :-) But of course, I get your point. I am new out here, so here is a dump question - Which subs do you run? Sounds like the ones I am looking for (and almost matches the 10.1 specs)

Autophile · 17th April 2007, 13:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble

Yeah. LBM's tweeter does that.

Lol ... I guess thats the Linear Function Area of his tweeter.

Determinus :

Gunbir is running his subsection using 2 X Hertz Air Mille 2500 Subs with Audison LRx 1.1K putting out 800 Watts in 2 ohms.

Bass&Trouble · 17th April 2007, 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autophile

Gunbir is running his subsection using 2 X Hertz Air Mille 2500 Subs with Audison LRx 1.1K putting out 800 Watts in 2 ohms.

In your opinion, what sounds better? The Seas 10s that he had in the car when I was in Delhi or the current ones?

gunbir · 17th April 2007, 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble

In your opinion, what sounds better? The Seas 10s that he had in the car when I was in Delhi or the current ones?

Ajay, since JB is offline, let me answer this...

We have used a lot of different SQ subs, but we tend to prefer tight, light bass with minimal overhang, no thick veil on the top... the Hertz Air Milles do this beautifully. They integrate almost automatically, bringing the bass upfront is almost PnP like. And the output is very impressive for such a design. You do need to pair them with an equally capable midbass else they will expose the midbass's weaknesses. They are discontinued now, and we have put the remaining stock away for our own use.

The SEAS SW250 are the more expensive of these two, and by a decent margin. the SEAS are buttery smooth subs as well, but more "muscular" if you know what I mean. The SEAS are very nice SQ subs as well, if you like that kind of "fist in a velvet glove" sound, but we are partial to the iDQ and the Air Milles.

Bass&Trouble · 17th April 2007, 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunbir

Ajay, since JB is offline, let me answer this...

Same thing, you guys are like two blokes sharing one pair of ears.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunbir

We have used a lot of different SQ subs, but we tend to prefer tight, light bass with minimal overhang, no thick veil on the top... the Hertz Air Milles do this beautifully. They integrate almost automatically, bringing the bass upfront is almost PnP like. And the output is very impressive for such a design. You do need to pair them with an equally capable midbass else they will expose the midbass's weaknesses. They are discontinued now, and we have put the remaining stock away for our own use.

The SEAS SW250 are the more expensive of these two, and by a decent margin. the SEAS are buttery smooth subs as well, but more "muscular" if you know what I mean. The SEAS are very nice SQ subs as well, if you like that kind of "fist in a velvet glove" sound, but we are partial to the iDQ and the Air Milles.

Hmm, ok. I've never heard anything from the Mille series so was mighty curious. And since I've heard the Seas, I thought your evaluation would give me some sort of benchmark to go by.

speedzak · 17th April 2007, 20:48

Hydra has just finished installing all the thingys! I am eagerly waiting to get to hear the real thing now.

La!! There's some more tweakings done to the front stage in his car I think.

The man himself will spill the beans after some time of what has gone in and what's done to the setup today.

low_bass_makker · 17th April 2007, 23:17

new headunit.........this is my guess....let us see....and what type of tweaks in the front stage are done......

hydrashok · 18th April 2007, 00:04

I'd dropped the car off at my installers' today morning for the final finishing (cleanup) and tuning. He didn't have a very busy day today, so he got to spend a lot of time with my setup. And that shows. We ran through the usual test tracks (now I'm quite familiar with them too, after having heard them many times in my setup earlier and in quite a few really good setups he's done). And I was like WOW!

The bass kicks real tight (wayyyyyy tighter than 2 days back), and now it kicks right in my chest. I'm saying bass and not sub because now the sub in itself can't be detected separately. He's done some real magic with the fronts and the sub. They both kick together and they both kick HARD! Even the mids and highs are more pronounced now. The overall setup is one tight and complete whole.

[The sub in itself sounds even better than it did 2 days back. more tighter and more "dynamic", moving between notes quicker than it did 2 days back. Now, I'm really beginning to understand the legend behind the IDQ, more than just hear about it second-hand.]

About the fronts, I initially thought he'd bridged the 4-ch Audison (the SRx4) to 2-ch and fed all of 170w RMS to the fronts. The midbasses kick that hard, and the midrange and tweeter are oh-so-clearer. But the rears still sing, and I turned off the HU's internal amp and they (the rears) still play. Apparently all the work was in the gains and the filters. He's got these set so perfectly (in both amps) that the fronts and the sub keep together all the way up to max volume.

I'd always been a naysayer of expensive subs. Before this upgrade I never could understand why people spent so much money on mono amps and on expensive subs when a 6K sub and a 10K amp could give decent bass-support. I used to be under the impression that a sub is just for bass response in terms of drums and all, and to make the music sound fuller and more enveloping. No more. Now I know what the hype is all about. A really good sub lifts the music up in every way, and not just the "beats". And a really good mono amp is a means to letting the sub do just that. I'm a believer and an ardent devotee of IDQ and the LRx.

The overall improvement from the IDQ (and the LRx) is not just in the raw bass, but everywhere in the music. The vocals are more fuller and clearer, string instruments pluck harder and deeper (even the plucks kick). The cello sounds divine (the sound of a cello playing always moves me to tears -- yes, I'm the sensitive type) and everything sounds different. I wish I hadn't missed this experience all along.

I couldn't tear myself out of the car today. I took the longest way home, and parked in a place near my home so I could keep listening (listening in the car at home will probably get me thrown out in a blink).

I'm on cloud nine.

gunbir · 18th April 2007, 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by hydrashok

(the sound of a cello playing always moves me to tears -- yes, I'm the sensitive type)

There you go again Anup, with leaky bodily fluids and all...

May the force be with you...

hydrashok · 18th April 2007, 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedzak

Hydra has just finished installing all the thingys! I am eagerly waiting to get to hear the real thing now.

La!! There's some more tweakings done to the front stage in his car I think.

Its all good, its all good! No bridging as I'd mentioned on the phone. Zuheimi's made a big difference even without that. You'll be able to tell the difference between the pre-IDQ & Lrx setup, the current setup before tuning (that you listened to on sunday) and the tuned setup as it is now easily.

Quote:

Originally Posted by low_bass_makker

new headunit.........this is my guess....let us see....and what type of tweaks in the front stage are done......

No, no! No HU. Nothing else added today. Same old, same old. But tuned to perfection now

Autophile · 18th April 2007, 00:23

Did you switch off the subsonic. If not please do that !!! Enjoy the bass with Immediacy Dynamism Quality (IDQ)

speedzak · 18th April 2007, 00:26

WOW!! Nice to know about the final outcome. I am glad you have got it right again.

No bridging for the fronts?? That's surprising. I thought that was going to be for sure. I have to spend some time in your car.

As much as the IDQ, the LRX should've also contributed a lot to your setup. La!! these Audison is not just a fancy name but their amps are worth each and every drop of sweat spent.

Congrats amigo!!

hydrashok · 18th April 2007, 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autophile

Did you switch off the subsonic. If not please do that !!! Enjoy the bass with Immediacy Dynamism Quality (IDQ)

Yep. Switched it off. Actually the installer did, before I got at it

I'm sure that did make a big difference to how fast the bass is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedzak

As much as the IDQ, the LRX should've also contributed a lot to your setup. La!! these Audison is not just a fancy name but their amps are worth each and every drop of sweat spent.

Definitely! I'm sure the LRx is key to the IDQ sounding so good. Lots of power with loads of headroom. I doubt if a lesser amp would have given me the same experience with the IDQ. I should try the 1 ohm (900 watts RMS) setting sometime soon <grinning devil smiley>

We'll meetup in the weekend for an extended listening session

hydrashok · 18th April 2007, 00:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunbir

There you go again Anup, with leaky bodily fluids and all...

May the force be with you...

Missed your post before. Thanks

speedzak · 18th April 2007, 10:23

There you go! LBM effect.
1 ohm? 900W? Devilish grins? Only thing left is Butter Omelette.

17th April 2007, 20:48	#141
speedzak BANNED Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: India Posts: 4,347 Thanked: 27 Times	Hydra has just finished installing all the thingys! I am eagerly waiting to get to hear the real thing now. La!! There's some more tweakings done to the front stage in his car I think. The man himself will spill the beans after some time of what has gone in and what's done to the setup today.
	() Thanks

17th April 2007, 23:17	#142
low_bass_makker Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Faridabad Posts: 6,815 Thanked: 305 Times View My Garage	new headunit.........this is my guess....let us see....and what type of tweaks in the front stage are done......
	() Thanks

18th April 2007, 00:04	#143
hydrashok Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: In my Office Posts: 2,528 Thanked: 18 Times View My Garage	I'd dropped the car off at my installers' today morning for the final finishing (cleanup) and tuning. He didn't have a very busy day today, so he got to spend a lot of time with my setup. And that shows. We ran through the usual test tracks (now I'm quite familiar with them too, after having heard them many times in my setup earlier and in quite a few really good setups he's done). And I was like WOW! The bass kicks real tight (wayyyyyy tighter than 2 days back), and now it kicks right in my chest. I'm saying bass and not sub because now the sub in itself can't be detected separately. He's done some real magic with the fronts and the sub. They both kick together and they both kick HARD! Even the mids and highs are more pronounced now. The overall setup is one tight and complete whole. [The sub in itself sounds even better than it did 2 days back. more tighter and more "dynamic", moving between notes quicker than it did 2 days back. Now, I'm really beginning to understand the legend behind the IDQ, more than just hear about it second-hand.] About the fronts, I initially thought he'd bridged the 4-ch Audison (the SRx4) to 2-ch and fed all of 170w RMS to the fronts. The midbasses kick that hard, and the midrange and tweeter are oh-so-clearer. But the rears still sing, and I turned off the HU's internal amp and they (the rears) still play. Apparently all the work was in the gains and the filters. He's got these set so perfectly (in both amps) that the fronts and the sub keep together all the way up to max volume. I'd always been a naysayer of expensive subs. Before this upgrade I never could understand why people spent so much money on mono amps and on expensive subs when a 6K sub and a 10K amp could give decent bass-support. I used to be under the impression that a sub is just for bass response in terms of drums and all, and to make the music sound fuller and more enveloping. No more. Now I know what the hype is all about. A really good sub lifts the music up in every way, and not just the "beats". And a really good mono amp is a means to letting the sub do just that. I'm a believer and an ardent devotee of IDQ and the LRx. The overall improvement from the IDQ (and the LRx) is not just in the raw bass, but everywhere in the music. The vocals are more fuller and clearer, string instruments pluck harder and deeper (even the plucks kick). The cello sounds divine (the sound of a cello playing always moves me to tears -- yes, I'm the sensitive type) and everything sounds different. I wish I hadn't missed this experience all along. I couldn't tear myself out of the car today. I took the longest way home, and parked in a place near my home so I could keep listening (listening in the car at home will probably get me thrown out in a blink). I'm on cloud nine.
	() Thanks

18th April 2007, 00:23	#146
Autophile BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New Delhi Posts: 931 Thanked: 4 Times	Did you switch off the subsonic. If not please do that !!! Enjoy the bass with Immediacy Dynamism Quality (IDQ) Last edited by Autophile : 18th April 2007 at 00:24.
	() Thanks

18th April 2007, 00:26	#147
speedzak BANNED Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: India Posts: 4,347 Thanked: 27 Times	WOW!! Nice to know about the final outcome. I am glad you have got it right again. No bridging for the fronts?? That's surprising. I thought that was going to be for sure. I have to spend some time in your car. As much as the IDQ, the LRX should've also contributed a lot to your setup. La!! these Audison is not just a fancy name but their amps are worth each and every drop of sweat spent. Congrats amigo!!
	() Thanks

18th April 2007, 10:23	#150
speedzak BANNED Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: India Posts: 4,347 Thanked: 27 Times	There you go! LBM effect. 1 ohm? 900W? Devilish grins? Only thing left is Butter Omelette.
	() Thanks